Analysis of Summer Transfer requirements (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Lo-Pan
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To buy a new RB, we have to off load Zebina first!
Is Succo capable of selling a player who stayed with us in serie B, for a decent price? Did he ever managed to sell anyone for a decent price?
We have already agreed to bring a young CB and with the addition of (the 10mil man) Criscito, i really doubt we are getting any quality defender, since we were never really interested of buying one! We were never really able to comprehend that there is an issue in our backline that Chiellini alone is not enough to handle...
To bring a new quality CB, we have to guarantee him a starter place, that would mean turn the NT Legro into a sub and Mellberg into a 3rd choice sub, that would cancel the transfer policy of the last 2 years at least...
Who will convince our owners to invest into an expensive top quality CB,
at the moment, we have a word famous resurrected Legro, just brought Mellberg and still paying Andrade's salary?? Secco or CR??
They would rather invest on a new forward, so that they attract the interest of the masses with his flicks and put them into the new stadium, so that they get a better income...
For the RW, i perfectly agree we need smth, but as long as we have the injury prone Camo and the injury proner Marchio, we are not bringing anyone.
Just like what it happened with the LM position, we will only adress the matter when Camo retires, it doesnt matter if, when or how is he playing...
Besides we still have Ekdall and Salih...
Hopefully, we will buy someone to replace the retiring Neddy, i presume that our managers would rather prefer to use Giovinco as a starter and De Ceglie as his sub for that position, avoiding further investments, or minimize them, by bringing a cheap winger from a middle serie A/EPL team and save the resources, so that we can fund an expensive forward (Cassano)...
As far the LB, we have Moli, who is "trying hard" and is invulnerable to injuries,
so need to further investments now...
Is Succo capable of selling a player who stayed with us in serie B, for a decent price? Did he ever managed to sell anyone for a decent price?
We have already agreed to bring a young CB and with the addition of (the 10mil man) Criscito, i really doubt we are getting any quality defender, since we were never really interested of buying one! We were never really able to comprehend that there is an issue in our backline that Chiellini alone is not enough to handle...
To bring a new quality CB, we have to guarantee him a starter place, that would mean turn the NT Legro into a sub and Mellberg into a 3rd choice sub, that would cancel the transfer policy of the last 2 years at least...
Who will convince our owners to invest into an expensive top quality CB,
at the moment, we have a word famous resurrected Legro, just brought Mellberg and still paying Andrade's salary?? Secco or CR??
They would rather invest on a new forward, so that they attract the interest of the masses with his flicks and put them into the new stadium, so that they get a better income...
For the RW, i perfectly agree we need smth, but as long as we have the injury prone Camo and the injury proner Marchio, we are not bringing anyone.
Just like what it happened with the LM position, we will only adress the matter when Camo retires, it doesnt matter if, when or how is he playing...
Besides we still have Ekdall and Salih...
Hopefully, we will buy someone to replace the retiring Neddy, i presume that our managers would rather prefer to use Giovinco as a starter and De Ceglie as his sub for that position, avoiding further investments, or minimize them, by bringing a cheap winger from a middle serie A/EPL team and save the resources, so that we can fund an expensive forward (Cassano)...
As far the LB, we have Moli, who is "trying hard" and is invulnerable to injuries,
so need to further investments now...
Legro is not getting any younger and his performances are not so good recently.We need someone very good next to Chiellini next year but seeing how many positions we have to cover I don't think we're going to sign someone but we are going to bring back Criscito.He got the potential and people say he was pretty good this year so it will be a risk because if he fails to impress we'll get stucked with Chiellini and Legro again but yet again if he shows his worth we could have one of the best duos in Europe for years to come.
They would not invest it on a new forward.We have very good attackers right now and we should not change anything.Del Piero,Trezeguet,Amauri and Iaquinta is good enough but I said it like 10 times so far,it's all up to Iaquinta's future.If he wants to leave and leaves we need a new forward don't you think?So if that happens we will start searching for a new striker.But Floccari or someone or just bring back Paolucci or someone.
Another case is our link with Cassano.I guess we don't reley on Giovinco to get Del Piero's place when he retires so it could be Cassano.But one thing is for sure...we won't have Del Piero,Trezeguet,Amauri,Iaquinta and Cassano next year
so you can relex.We are just planning ahead.
As for RB position I wouldn't like to count on Mellberg as the first choice.He had some good games but right side is not his perfect position where he failed to impress a few times.Zebina is better than Grygera but we should sell him if possible of course.He's always injured so he's not so useful.
Is he capable?It's not up him really and plus I don't really think we can get much for such injury prone player to be honest.I think it can be 2-3 mln euros and that's it.Grygera should be a back up and we need someone much better.We have to buy someone on Nedved's position and that will dry our pocket probably because it seems we won't reley on Giovinco there.Someone who's free would be nice and I can only think of Eboue (don't even dare to Panucci!).I mean,let's not get our hopes so high for him because it's like he's Maicon or someone.He is not so good in Arsenal but I somehow think we'd reborn him here.Hopefully the same way we did it with Legro.
We didn't have so many opportunities.It's not like you can blame him for not selling Almiron who pretty much chocked or Tiago back then who failed to impress.We don't have many players to sell...even this year we could just sell Zebina and Marchionni but that won't gives us much :money: There's Iaquinta that could bring us ~10mln but it's still early to talk about it.
They would not invest it on a new forward.We have very good attackers right now and we should not change anything.Del Piero,Trezeguet,Amauri and Iaquinta is good enough but I said it like 10 times so far,it's all up to Iaquinta's future.If he wants to leave and leaves we need a new forward don't you think?So if that happens we will start searching for a new striker.But Floccari or someone or just bring back Paolucci or someone.
Another case is our link with Cassano.I guess we don't reley on Giovinco to get Del Piero's place when he retires so it could be Cassano.But one thing is for sure...we won't have Del Piero,Trezeguet,Amauri,Iaquinta and Cassano next year
so you can relex.We are just planning ahead.As for RB position I wouldn't like to count on Mellberg as the first choice.He had some good games but right side is not his perfect position where he failed to impress a few times.Zebina is better than Grygera but we should sell him if possible of course.He's always injured so he's not so useful.
Is he capable?It's not up him really and plus I don't really think we can get much for such injury prone player to be honest.I think it can be 2-3 mln euros and that's it.Grygera should be a back up and we need someone much better.We have to buy someone on Nedved's position and that will dry our pocket probably because it seems we won't reley on Giovinco there.Someone who's free would be nice and I can only think of Eboue (don't even dare to Panucci!).I mean,let's not get our hopes so high for him because it's like he's Maicon or someone.He is not so good in Arsenal but I somehow think we'd reborn him here.Hopefully the same way we did it with Legro.
We didn't have so many opportunities.It's not like you can blame him for not selling Almiron who pretty much chocked or Tiago back then who failed to impress.We don't have many players to sell...even this year we could just sell Zebina and Marchionni but that won't gives us much :money: There's Iaquinta that could bring us ~10mln but it's still early to talk about it.
I can't bring myself to accept that we won't spend a serious amount of money on the replacement for Nedved. Though, after reading much of the comments in this thread and similar thread, I see it is a possibility. We spent nothing in January, and must have received a decent amount from the champions league campaign, even if we go out to chelsea in ten days time. We always have one star, one creative genius in our ranks. Or at least we have done since I have been supporting Juve...I remember Moller, that bastard nazi with the rat face...and then Baggio...Zidane...Nedved...Whoever comes in, has big shoes to fill. Ribery or Diego. Preferably the frenchman. Whether other teams are interested in him or not, I am sure that the lure of following in the footsteps of Michel and Zinedine, will balance out any massive financial gains offered by our rival bidders for his sublime services.
I agree with the general feeling regarding Cassano. There isn't room for him presently, unless Trezeguet or Iaquinta leaves...I would rather lose Amauri, than either of those two. Trezeguet rarely over exerts himself, but he has that rare, ultra valuable ability to ghost into goal scoring positions. Amauri doesn't have that, though he is very strong in the air and works hard. Iaquinta beats him for me, on pure heart...sometimes when he plays, he emits an aura of rambo-esque determination to succeed. Any team would be happy to have a player like that. He also knows where the goal is. Essentially, our attack wont change much in the summer unless someone leaves.
I am hoping that Criscito returns and forms a solid partnership with Chiellini. Our fullbacks, on the the other hand, need replacing. De Ceglie can take over from Molinaro, who may be averse to injuries, but also, is averse to quality defending and distribution. Eboue would certainly be an interesting choice for right back...he has potential, and often appears savage enough to end opponents careers, or lives, with his gungho take the man first, then the ball approach. I would be happy with De Ceglie, Chiellini, Criscito and Eboue. We have solid enough cover at right back.
The midfield, again on the flanks, is the most needy of reinforcements, or complete overhaul. Camo is injured too easily and too often. We should sell him while its still possible to get a half decent fee for his exit. His back-up, marchionni, is not good enough to be our first choice right winger. Our any of our youth players, or those out on loan capable of occupying that position more comfortably and competently than Marchionni**** In the middle, the way forward is Momo and Marchisio. Tiago and Poulsen are adequate back-up, and who knows, perhaps Tiago will recapture the form which persuaded us to buy him in the first place and the Dane will do likewise. Its possible. Until then, MArchiso and Momo are fine.
The unknown factor in this analysis is Giovinco. With De Ceglie at left back I would be far happier seeing Sebastian play left wing. he would be roaming forward from a solid base behind. Is he earmarked to be an attacker or a winger or an offensive midfielder....for me, he is best dropping between midfield and attack, but in that case where does he fit in Ranieri's strict 4-4-2 system***
He needs more time on the field before the season is out. When I have seen him do well for the Italy U21s he has been marvelous at dribbling, shooting and creating goal scoring opportunities for others. He has looked a player that we desperately need. But why has Ranieri restricted his chances thus far*...
Next season, these players are fine for progress:
Buffon,
X, Criscito, Chiellini, De Ceglie
X, Marchisio, Sissoko, Giovinco
Trezeguet, Del Piero.
With the steel like quality of Momo and MArchiso, could Ranieri not try a 4-3-3...
With giovinco in front of those two*** and Dp, Trez and Amauri up front***
Definite purchases = One creative midfielder, Ribery or Diego.
one quality full back. Who though****
I agree with the general feeling regarding Cassano. There isn't room for him presently, unless Trezeguet or Iaquinta leaves...I would rather lose Amauri, than either of those two. Trezeguet rarely over exerts himself, but he has that rare, ultra valuable ability to ghost into goal scoring positions. Amauri doesn't have that, though he is very strong in the air and works hard. Iaquinta beats him for me, on pure heart...sometimes when he plays, he emits an aura of rambo-esque determination to succeed. Any team would be happy to have a player like that. He also knows where the goal is. Essentially, our attack wont change much in the summer unless someone leaves.
I am hoping that Criscito returns and forms a solid partnership with Chiellini. Our fullbacks, on the the other hand, need replacing. De Ceglie can take over from Molinaro, who may be averse to injuries, but also, is averse to quality defending and distribution. Eboue would certainly be an interesting choice for right back...he has potential, and often appears savage enough to end opponents careers, or lives, with his gungho take the man first, then the ball approach. I would be happy with De Ceglie, Chiellini, Criscito and Eboue. We have solid enough cover at right back.
The midfield, again on the flanks, is the most needy of reinforcements, or complete overhaul. Camo is injured too easily and too often. We should sell him while its still possible to get a half decent fee for his exit. His back-up, marchionni, is not good enough to be our first choice right winger. Our any of our youth players, or those out on loan capable of occupying that position more comfortably and competently than Marchionni**** In the middle, the way forward is Momo and Marchisio. Tiago and Poulsen are adequate back-up, and who knows, perhaps Tiago will recapture the form which persuaded us to buy him in the first place and the Dane will do likewise. Its possible. Until then, MArchiso and Momo are fine.
The unknown factor in this analysis is Giovinco. With De Ceglie at left back I would be far happier seeing Sebastian play left wing. he would be roaming forward from a solid base behind. Is he earmarked to be an attacker or a winger or an offensive midfielder....for me, he is best dropping between midfield and attack, but in that case where does he fit in Ranieri's strict 4-4-2 system***
He needs more time on the field before the season is out. When I have seen him do well for the Italy U21s he has been marvelous at dribbling, shooting and creating goal scoring opportunities for others. He has looked a player that we desperately need. But why has Ranieri restricted his chances thus far*...
Next season, these players are fine for progress:
Buffon,
X, Criscito, Chiellini, De Ceglie
X, Marchisio, Sissoko, Giovinco
Trezeguet, Del Piero.
With the steel like quality of Momo and MArchiso, could Ranieri not try a 4-3-3...
With giovinco in front of those two*** and Dp, Trez and Amauri up front***
Definite purchases = One creative midfielder, Ribery or Diego.
one quality full back. Who though****
There are a couple of things that do worry me:
-More than the half transfer rumors, both confirmed and unconfirmed, tie us with forwards, i really found this ridiculous, esp now, we will buy one, even if that means that we dont need one. And i am afraid this is going to be one of the quality over quantity players Secco was talking about... That would mean no quality players in other positions!!
Even if we sell Iaquinta to buy Cassano, we would still need to push at least 10mil more. I dont see us throwing 10mil to buy a defender though, WHY NOT????
Why do we always have to bring free ones??
-I am worried about our owners and CR's plans regarding Giovinco and in a lesser extend DC. CR says that winger is not his best possible position and he rarely ever use him there. IF we are buying a new exp winger to be a starter, what happens to him?? Some goes for the DP's sub position, esp if we bring Cassano. Buying a winger and Cassano => game over for Giovinco's carrier in Juve, at least as long as we have CR and this 4-4-2 !!
-For the RB, we will not buy a 4th RB, as long as we already pay 3 salaries!
They should bring a starter to replace the injury prone Zebina from the first place!
They brought Grygera to be his sub and sell one of them when we will reach CL.
And then they brought Mellberg as a CB/RB and kept both of them!
3 mistakes already, it is such a mess, which can only be undone by admitting one;
*Sell Zebina, smth that should have been done when EPL teams were really interested on him?
*Get rid of Grygera or * Mellberg and accept his transfer as a total failure, not even good as subber. But who is going to take the responsibility/blame about that??? The scouts, Secco or CR? They all extended their contracts!
-CB, again, we have too many options, who are we going to offload?
Legro isnt old enough for a defender and we support his NT hopes,
meaning that we will keep him as a first rate CB up until the African cup.
Mellberg was brought as a decent all around and reliable solution,
with at least 2-3 years prospect!
Chiellini is Chiellini!
Criscito is someone whom we invested way to much, to let him go and he is young and promising enough to give him a decent second chance!
We will always have a Knezevic/Stendardo around, hopefully it will be someone we already own from now on!
We cant do much if keep relying on free/cheap players anyway...
-LB, you now about my hate on Moli, but we have now invested faaaar tooo much on him, two seasons as a starter pfff.
It is nearly impossible to have him replaced right now. Our tolerance for mediocrity hasnt changed not even a bit and unfortunately CR believes that he is promising enough to be a key player of the future Juve.
He believes in Molinaro and included him in the backbone of our future plans. This is a grave mistake, but it is already too late.
Thats why i didnt want to reach here at the first place...
The lack of vision and the restriction such limited players, like Moli have,
will hurt us, even in the long run, when the "five decade plan", will start developing and some decent investments will be made...
It doesnt matter if we have Cassano, Amauri, Trez and Cassano in the front line,
as long as we have players like Molinaro as our starters...
The percentage of quality players within our ranks will not be increased,
we can barely replace our retiring champions...
-More than the half transfer rumors, both confirmed and unconfirmed, tie us with forwards, i really found this ridiculous, esp now, we will buy one, even if that means that we dont need one. And i am afraid this is going to be one of the quality over quantity players Secco was talking about... That would mean no quality players in other positions!!
Even if we sell Iaquinta to buy Cassano, we would still need to push at least 10mil more. I dont see us throwing 10mil to buy a defender though, WHY NOT????
Why do we always have to bring free ones??
-I am worried about our owners and CR's plans regarding Giovinco and in a lesser extend DC. CR says that winger is not his best possible position and he rarely ever use him there. IF we are buying a new exp winger to be a starter, what happens to him?? Some goes for the DP's sub position, esp if we bring Cassano. Buying a winger and Cassano => game over for Giovinco's carrier in Juve, at least as long as we have CR and this 4-4-2 !!
-For the RB, we will not buy a 4th RB, as long as we already pay 3 salaries!
They should bring a starter to replace the injury prone Zebina from the first place!
They brought Grygera to be his sub and sell one of them when we will reach CL.
And then they brought Mellberg as a CB/RB and kept both of them!
3 mistakes already, it is such a mess, which can only be undone by admitting one;
*Sell Zebina, smth that should have been done when EPL teams were really interested on him?
*Get rid of Grygera or * Mellberg and accept his transfer as a total failure, not even good as subber. But who is going to take the responsibility/blame about that??? The scouts, Secco or CR? They all extended their contracts!
-CB, again, we have too many options, who are we going to offload?
Legro isnt old enough for a defender and we support his NT hopes,
meaning that we will keep him as a first rate CB up until the African cup.
Mellberg was brought as a decent all around and reliable solution,
with at least 2-3 years prospect!
Chiellini is Chiellini!
Criscito is someone whom we invested way to much, to let him go and he is young and promising enough to give him a decent second chance!
We will always have a Knezevic/Stendardo around, hopefully it will be someone we already own from now on!
We cant do much if keep relying on free/cheap players anyway...
-LB, you now about my hate on Moli, but we have now invested faaaar tooo much on him, two seasons as a starter pfff.
It is nearly impossible to have him replaced right now. Our tolerance for mediocrity hasnt changed not even a bit and unfortunately CR believes that he is promising enough to be a key player of the future Juve.
He believes in Molinaro and included him in the backbone of our future plans. This is a grave mistake, but it is already too late.
Thats why i didnt want to reach here at the first place...
The lack of vision and the restriction such limited players, like Moli have,
will hurt us, even in the long run, when the "five decade plan", will start developing and some decent investments will be made...
It doesnt matter if we have Cassano, Amauri, Trez and Cassano in the front line,
as long as we have players like Molinaro as our starters...
The percentage of quality players within our ranks will not be increased,
we can barely replace our retiring champions...
I don't think Cassano would get Iaquinta's place.He's more Del Piero's direct replacement if happens.As I said,I'd expect to see Floccari or someone on Iaquinta's place.
To save money and cover more weak position for example.Also,on some positions like RB it would be the best choice to get Eboue.I don't think there's any RB available so that's 8mln euros saved and he's better than Grygera.
It might have been just another goal.com rumor.
Noone was praised when we bought Amauri so noone will take the blame for Grygera.Mellberg is not a failure and they were both free anyway.Like we could've bought someone better than Grygera for Serie B.Mellberg is good enough to be a 3rd choice CB and that's it.
To save money and cover more weak position for example.Also,on some positions like RB it would be the best choice to get Eboue.I don't think there's any RB available so that's 8mln euros saved and he's better than Grygera.
It might have been just another goal.com rumor.
Noone was praised when we bought Amauri so noone will take the blame for Grygera.Mellberg is not a failure and they were both free anyway.Like we could've bought someone better than Grygera for Serie B.Mellberg is good enough to be a 3rd choice CB and that's it.
-More weak position than our defense!!!
You ve got to be kidding, the defense was, is and will be our weakest link since the Boumsong days... The longer we postpone to invest and fix this problem, the longer we are going to suffer from it. There are no more excuses left, we have now the proper funds and negotiating position to get a reliable player!
Spending more money in our forward line, where we already have3-4 top quality forwards is just retard...
For ffs our defense without Chiellini is barely at middle table serie A standards... We cant even find one starter, for 3 available slots??? C mooon...
-Cassano will be brought to become DP's heir, i wonder who is going to score goals when the prolific Treze and even DP wont be around though...
Amauri and Cassano are both very creative but we still need a finisher!
That would mean further investments in a couple of years, when they will both retire...
The lack of vision, our boards shows is disgusting...
Iaquinta is now practically DP sub, since he is a starter, and Treze is Amauri's.
Bringing Cassano would mean that he either fills that role, or push DP to the bench.
Or replacing Treze, not directly, but indirectly, making Iaq as the main CF sub. Iaq has a double role SS/CF. So its not that important whom exactly is Cassano replacing.
The important thing is, one of them will have to go. Which is atm unnecessary... But Secco will have to use the sale of Iaquinta/treze as a leverage to sign Cassano. Because thats what he is instructed to do!
Our real needs are of secondary importance...
-If we sell Mellberg, he will be a failure, so we are forced to keep him right?
Some goes for Grygera! If we sell one, somebody has to accept he made a mistake! Dont forget Grygera is a now a 2years starter in serie A, we had for transfer windows to change that, (AS A SERIE A TEAM) but we chose to keep him as a starter instead!
The easiest way out i can see is release Zebina and blame his injuries.
But that would further destroy our image and accuse Secco of not selling him for a decent sum, when he actually had the chance...
PS We are not in serie B anymore, that excuse is long gone...
You ve got to be kidding, the defense was, is and will be our weakest link since the Boumsong days... The longer we postpone to invest and fix this problem, the longer we are going to suffer from it. There are no more excuses left, we have now the proper funds and negotiating position to get a reliable player!
Spending more money in our forward line, where we already have3-4 top quality forwards is just retard...
For ffs our defense without Chiellini is barely at middle table serie A standards... We cant even find one starter, for 3 available slots??? C mooon...
-Cassano will be brought to become DP's heir, i wonder who is going to score goals when the prolific Treze and even DP wont be around though...
Amauri and Cassano are both very creative but we still need a finisher!
That would mean further investments in a couple of years, when they will both retire...
The lack of vision, our boards shows is disgusting...
Iaquinta is now practically DP sub, since he is a starter, and Treze is Amauri's.
Bringing Cassano would mean that he either fills that role, or push DP to the bench.
Or replacing Treze, not directly, but indirectly, making Iaq as the main CF sub. Iaq has a double role SS/CF. So its not that important whom exactly is Cassano replacing.
The important thing is, one of them will have to go. Which is atm unnecessary... But Secco will have to use the sale of Iaquinta/treze as a leverage to sign Cassano. Because thats what he is instructed to do!
Our real needs are of secondary importance...
-If we sell Mellberg, he will be a failure, so we are forced to keep him right?
Some goes for Grygera! If we sell one, somebody has to accept he made a mistake! Dont forget Grygera is a now a 2years starter in serie A, we had for transfer windows to change that, (AS A SERIE A TEAM) but we chose to keep him as a starter instead!
The easiest way out i can see is release Zebina and blame his injuries.
But that would further destroy our image and accuse Secco of not selling him for a decent sum, when he actually had the chance...
PS We are not in serie B anymore, that excuse is long gone...
Selling some player automaticly makes it a failure?
somebody has to accept he made a mistake
Why?
I don't see any reason why should we sell Mellberg.You're saying like we should get at least 4 new defenders.Well that ain't gonna happen Cronios.I never denied that our weakest link is our defense but I just said buying someone for free like Eboue would be a good move.It's not like I said we should buy Bertotto from Venezia.
Did we have a chance to sell him?It was just media talks and who knows if those were true.They talked about it once and it stopped.
Serie B was not any excuse.
somebody has to accept he made a mistake
Why?
I don't see any reason why should we sell Mellberg.You're saying like we should get at least 4 new defenders.Well that ain't gonna happen Cronios.I never denied that our weakest link is our defense but I just said buying someone for free like Eboue would be a good move.It's not like I said we should buy Bertotto from Venezia.
Did we have a chance to sell him?It was just media talks and who knows if those were true.They talked about it once and it stopped.
Serie B was not any excuse.
Right after we secured Serie A promotion, our board has announced a five year plan of building up a new powerful team, destined to be the successor of the old Juve. Such a team cannot be built in a day/season and they asked from the Juve fans/friends to be patience, but confident because we have a 5 year plan.
I do not expect us to win any titles in this particular period and i wont blame anyone for that, unlike the majority of our over-optimistic. nearly delusional fans, who dream of titles!
But i do expect us, to set the bases of a strong team, i do expect us to build a competitive team by the end of this announced time schedule.
I do not demand any results and i am already pleased with the performance we ve seen so far. But i do demand to see a solid plan getting up fold,
i do demand to respect our history, our resources, our fans, our players,
everything what Juventus stands for!!
Unfortunately the plan we chose to follow is not only far from the optimal,
but it also seems to be bellow average.
The plan's success was essential to let us reach this time frame.
This plan means that we should make some tactical sacrifices today, to gain strategical benefits tomorrow. This plan requires to take the maximum advantage of our limited resources. This plan needs we have to respect this time schedule and we should use vision to avoid side/back-steps.
As far as the players are concerned, this means not wasting any funds to players who add nothing in the future, or limited performance temporarily.
But invest on our future!!
What have we seen so far??? Only sidesteps that undermine our future!
I have presented the arguments you conveniently chose to ignore.misunderstood, to point this out!
Yes, it is a failure when you buy a player 2-3 times to find a proper one for a certain role in our team.
When you have limited funds and the better quality percentage of your team near to retirement, you cannot afford to throw money away on experiments!!
When you have to close the gap between you and 3 wealthy clubs with the most experienced personnel and with press and political influence to back them up.
You cannot afford to fool around, you have to be nearly optimal to compensate for the lack of attributes you cannot compete with!
We should better save the available funds and dont spend them at all!!
Apart from the overrated primadonnas, the transfer value of a player, indicates his potential/quality/reliability/overall value etc!
The football players market is an offer-request open market.
There is a reason some players are more expensive than others!
We do not have the experimented personnel to work wonders and succeed, where the rest of the teams have failed, discovering the underrated talents, the rest have ignored If we want a good player, we need to pay for him!
Wasting money on no ones or half ones, is not the way to go!
We have done this extensively, partly because of lack of funds/skills/know-how/professionalism/luck and lack of vision!
Some things are not controlled by our hand, there is no one to blame about that.
But some certain choices are accounted to some personnel/persons directly!
This is why some one has to take the blame for a failure!
Because we ought to do better, because we cannot afford failures at this particular time of our history, we cannot afford risks, we cannot afford backsteps, not even sidesteps, we need to do some leaps forward!!
The situation in our defense, particularly reflects the lack of vision and interest from our board!! When they took all those decisions to make those upgrades and addition, what did they have in mind??? Does it look that they had in mind of building a team, with at least 11 top quality players, to compete with the best out there??
Which of the transfer market so far would indicate such vision??
Mellberg for ex, he didnt brought him when we were in a defenders crisis, refusing to pay a minimal fee, since we had the option to sign him for free!
Negating the effects of optimal tactical use!
But why would we buy him this particular year?? What did we have in mind??
Since optimal tactical use is out of question now, it has to be a strategical choice!
Meaning that this transfer will be proved optimal in the long run!
That would mean that Mellberg will grow to be at the same quality status as the rest of our top players, within 2-3 years from now!! That would mean a top defender esential to our team like Sissoko and Amauri! Right?? Wrong, his age wont allow that, he will be a sub at max and even worse, he is a sub even now...
What did he actually added? Greater depth right? Thats the only possible positive thing someone could have said about him and Poulsen! Ok thats fine by, although i would prefer less starters, than more subs, i can live with that.
But happens if we choose to sell him instead?? What did this transfer would offer us in the long run? Nothing? Was it optimal tactically? No! we could avoid at least 4 defeat last, if we had him since the x-mas. Thats a typical example of non optimal, sidestep strategy! This transfer is not included in any serious 5 year plan.
It is just a quick fix! Same and worse is Poulsen, he is not a starter now, he wont be a starter in the future, he is not an optimal tactical or strategical choice and we even spent money, we could have used to sign a better player on him! If we sell Poulsen that would be a backstep, some goes for Almiron and Tiago, but the CL excuse lowers the degree of guilt there!
I sincerely hope that i made my self clear now, regarding the mistakes of our transfer policy! Those mistakes are mistakes even at they day of their birth, Secco's job ends when the season starts! It is not his fault if those player under/over-perform, considering their potential, he should not be accused/praised, because of that. But if he buys a very limited player, invest money and time on him, he is to blame that he wont be able to cope tomorrow against the most competitive ones, that was expected by the day we bought him!
If he buys an injury prone player and gets injured (Andrade), he is to blame, because that was expected. If he sign a player who didnt play for an entire season and that player fails to adapt due to fitness fatigue (Tiago), then again he is to blame because that was expected too! See my point here??
I dont blame Secco for the shake of it, as Jack accuses me of, i blame him for some specific errors he made. Errors that shouldnt have happened, because they where so freaking predictable, even some not specialist could see them coming and would have avoid them!
Secco is trusted with million and he is ought to be optimal, but in fact he isnt even half decent...
If he is not man enough to accept his mistakes, he should at lest be sissy enough to quit, since its painfully obvious that he cant cope at this level!
Unfortunately so far he has only abused the trust our board gave him and wasted our limited funds without regrets or respect...
I didnt say we have to sell Mellberg, i said we have to sell one of them and i ve presented a reason for each of them. You choose to ignore the rest because you know your point cant be defended there and you are trying to imply things, like i absurdly proposed to 4 new defenders only to discredit me!:frown:
Thats not what i said and you know it, i wrote a long post, in cased you didnt understood what i mean and i only because i respect you that much!
I would welcome Eboue and happily keep Mellberg too. But there has been a time we have to invest on our weakest link the defense! Although we dont have any real option, we do have a lot of non useful players filling our lot, salary cap and starters position. Replacing them demands some sacrifices and vision, our board hasnt showed yet. I hope that we will finally see them this year, just like i hoped last year and previous one! But judging by what i have seen so much, i fear that they are bound to repeat the same mistakes! Following the pattern of their transfer policy so far, we do have some indications of how they are going to move this year too. I want to point out the mistakes, even before we see them, so ppl like Jack wont accuse me, that i blame them no matter what i do!
However i m sure that he will "forget" that their mistake was predictable and intercept, even before it was announced, just like it happened in the past 2 seasons... But i expect from ppl like you and Allen, to remember this discussion!
I will and i promise that if Secco and co change their transfer policy, as promised, i ll praise them! Because i am not biased or pessimist. I only hope that they wont make the mistakes i predicted they will! There is no reason for me to do otherwise.
I only want what its best for Juve. I do understand that some ppl choose to deny reality and only hope for the best, thats their right, but they dont have the right to accuse me of anything.
Other, like Jack are more impassable, they dont really care if we win smth now or by the time their children will already have grandchildren.
I never accused them any lesser fans than the rest, its their right!
But i dont understand why they are so sensitive and flame me, personally when i accuse our board for their deeds, not them our their beliefs, but some of our choices! Even if our approach on this matter differs, it doesnt have to be personal...
Regardless the media rumors, the intentions of our board, is reflected by the lips of our officials and undeniably by their deeds!
I never accused someone because of rumors, but when i see a rumor that seems to respect the pattern, of our policy in a matter, i have the courage to point out my opinion, even before it is made! If our board realize that predictable mistake in the end, then their fault is true and beyond any doubt and that would not be the first time it happened...
I do not expect us to win any titles in this particular period and i wont blame anyone for that, unlike the majority of our over-optimistic. nearly delusional fans, who dream of titles!
But i do expect us, to set the bases of a strong team, i do expect us to build a competitive team by the end of this announced time schedule.
I do not demand any results and i am already pleased with the performance we ve seen so far. But i do demand to see a solid plan getting up fold,
i do demand to respect our history, our resources, our fans, our players,
everything what Juventus stands for!!
Unfortunately the plan we chose to follow is not only far from the optimal,
but it also seems to be bellow average.
The plan's success was essential to let us reach this time frame.
This plan means that we should make some tactical sacrifices today, to gain strategical benefits tomorrow. This plan requires to take the maximum advantage of our limited resources. This plan needs we have to respect this time schedule and we should use vision to avoid side/back-steps.
As far as the players are concerned, this means not wasting any funds to players who add nothing in the future, or limited performance temporarily.
But invest on our future!!
What have we seen so far??? Only sidesteps that undermine our future!
I have presented the arguments you conveniently chose to ignore.misunderstood, to point this out!
Yes, it is a failure when you buy a player 2-3 times to find a proper one for a certain role in our team.
When you have limited funds and the better quality percentage of your team near to retirement, you cannot afford to throw money away on experiments!!
When you have to close the gap between you and 3 wealthy clubs with the most experienced personnel and with press and political influence to back them up.
You cannot afford to fool around, you have to be nearly optimal to compensate for the lack of attributes you cannot compete with!
We should better save the available funds and dont spend them at all!!
Apart from the overrated primadonnas, the transfer value of a player, indicates his potential/quality/reliability/overall value etc!
The football players market is an offer-request open market.
There is a reason some players are more expensive than others!
We do not have the experimented personnel to work wonders and succeed, where the rest of the teams have failed, discovering the underrated talents, the rest have ignored If we want a good player, we need to pay for him!
Wasting money on no ones or half ones, is not the way to go!
We have done this extensively, partly because of lack of funds/skills/know-how/professionalism/luck and lack of vision!
Some things are not controlled by our hand, there is no one to blame about that.
But some certain choices are accounted to some personnel/persons directly!
This is why some one has to take the blame for a failure!
Because we ought to do better, because we cannot afford failures at this particular time of our history, we cannot afford risks, we cannot afford backsteps, not even sidesteps, we need to do some leaps forward!!
The situation in our defense, particularly reflects the lack of vision and interest from our board!! When they took all those decisions to make those upgrades and addition, what did they have in mind??? Does it look that they had in mind of building a team, with at least 11 top quality players, to compete with the best out there??
Which of the transfer market so far would indicate such vision??Mellberg for ex, he didnt brought him when we were in a defenders crisis, refusing to pay a minimal fee, since we had the option to sign him for free!
Negating the effects of optimal tactical use!
But why would we buy him this particular year?? What did we have in mind??
Since optimal tactical use is out of question now, it has to be a strategical choice!
Meaning that this transfer will be proved optimal in the long run!
That would mean that Mellberg will grow to be at the same quality status as the rest of our top players, within 2-3 years from now!! That would mean a top defender esential to our team like Sissoko and Amauri! Right?? Wrong, his age wont allow that, he will be a sub at max and even worse, he is a sub even now...
What did he actually added? Greater depth right? Thats the only possible positive thing someone could have said about him and Poulsen! Ok thats fine by, although i would prefer less starters, than more subs, i can live with that.
But happens if we choose to sell him instead?? What did this transfer would offer us in the long run? Nothing? Was it optimal tactically? No! we could avoid at least 4 defeat last, if we had him since the x-mas. Thats a typical example of non optimal, sidestep strategy! This transfer is not included in any serious 5 year plan.
It is just a quick fix! Same and worse is Poulsen, he is not a starter now, he wont be a starter in the future, he is not an optimal tactical or strategical choice and we even spent money, we could have used to sign a better player on him! If we sell Poulsen that would be a backstep, some goes for Almiron and Tiago, but the CL excuse lowers the degree of guilt there!
I sincerely hope that i made my self clear now, regarding the mistakes of our transfer policy! Those mistakes are mistakes even at they day of their birth, Secco's job ends when the season starts! It is not his fault if those player under/over-perform, considering their potential, he should not be accused/praised, because of that. But if he buys a very limited player, invest money and time on him, he is to blame that he wont be able to cope tomorrow against the most competitive ones, that was expected by the day we bought him!
If he buys an injury prone player and gets injured (Andrade), he is to blame, because that was expected. If he sign a player who didnt play for an entire season and that player fails to adapt due to fitness fatigue (Tiago), then again he is to blame because that was expected too! See my point here??
I dont blame Secco for the shake of it, as Jack accuses me of, i blame him for some specific errors he made. Errors that shouldnt have happened, because they where so freaking predictable, even some not specialist could see them coming and would have avoid them!
Secco is trusted with million and he is ought to be optimal, but in fact he isnt even half decent...
If he is not man enough to accept his mistakes, he should at lest be sissy enough to quit, since its painfully obvious that he cant cope at this level!
Unfortunately so far he has only abused the trust our board gave him and wasted our limited funds without regrets or respect...
I didnt say we have to sell Mellberg, i said we have to sell one of them and i ve presented a reason for each of them. You choose to ignore the rest because you know your point cant be defended there and you are trying to imply things, like i absurdly proposed to 4 new defenders only to discredit me!:frown:
Thats not what i said and you know it, i wrote a long post, in cased you didnt understood what i mean and i only because i respect you that much!
I would welcome Eboue and happily keep Mellberg too. But there has been a time we have to invest on our weakest link the defense! Although we dont have any real option, we do have a lot of non useful players filling our lot, salary cap and starters position. Replacing them demands some sacrifices and vision, our board hasnt showed yet. I hope that we will finally see them this year, just like i hoped last year and previous one! But judging by what i have seen so much, i fear that they are bound to repeat the same mistakes! Following the pattern of their transfer policy so far, we do have some indications of how they are going to move this year too. I want to point out the mistakes, even before we see them, so ppl like Jack wont accuse me, that i blame them no matter what i do!
However i m sure that he will "forget" that their mistake was predictable and intercept, even before it was announced, just like it happened in the past 2 seasons... But i expect from ppl like you and Allen, to remember this discussion!
I will and i promise that if Secco and co change their transfer policy, as promised, i ll praise them! Because i am not biased or pessimist. I only hope that they wont make the mistakes i predicted they will! There is no reason for me to do otherwise.
I only want what its best for Juve. I do understand that some ppl choose to deny reality and only hope for the best, thats their right, but they dont have the right to accuse me of anything.
Other, like Jack are more impassable, they dont really care if we win smth now or by the time their children will already have grandchildren.
I never accused them any lesser fans than the rest, its their right!
But i dont understand why they are so sensitive and flame me, personally when i accuse our board for their deeds, not them our their beliefs, but some of our choices! Even if our approach on this matter differs, it doesnt have to be personal...
Regardless the media rumors, the intentions of our board, is reflected by the lips of our officials and undeniably by their deeds!
I never accused someone because of rumors, but when i see a rumor that seems to respect the pattern, of our policy in a matter, i have the courage to point out my opinion, even before it is made! If our board realize that predictable mistake in the end, then their fault is true and beyond any doubt and that would not be the first time it happened...
So what that supposed to mean?? Are you implying that their individual value is close to the individual value of the aforementioned teams???
Do you also consider our tactics, our limitations, their chances, the effort/support of the rest of our players that contributed on the final score?? Or do you thing that the only think that has an influence over our goals conceded is the individual chances of our defenders?
Thank God:flag3: I thought we would never had enough of them, but i see how the forward trend can be equally, or even more annoying (esp to our budget)...
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