American NFL Football (30 Viewers)

[acmilan]

Idk how to feel about reports saying we wanna get Mariota. We'd be giving up too mcuh and I don't think he's worth it.

Should have more faith in Chip and his system

Mariota is the best QB talent this year, imo, but isn't NFL ready and, as Aaron said, will need to develop for a couple of years. No better system for him to do so in than Chip's. If he ends up in a place like Tampa or Tenn or Jets, the guy might as well retire as a rookie.

 

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[Enron]

Should have more faith in Chip and his system

Mariota is the best QB talent this year, imo, but isn't NFL ready and, as Aaron said, will need to develop for a couple of years. No better system for him to do so in than Chip's. If he ends up in a place like Tampa or Tenn or Jets, the guy might as well retire as a rookie.

The one thing I hate about modern day NFL is that every QB taken in the first round is expected to be Peyton Manning. What happened to the days when organizations were patient and willing to actually invest in a player?

 

[Salvo]

and yeah, too many rapists.

 

[acmilan]

Report just came out 11/12 Pats game balls was under-inflated. Probably an accident.

I don't dislike the Pats. In fact I took part in a pantsless Super Bowl party for the Tom's first SB victory.


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...d-footballs/7UlPZI3eotRTBadM89saeO/story.html

Will see what shakes out of it but again - it's a non-story. This is along the lines of making the grass wet before a game or telling the other team to watch out for the rats in the visitors locker room (true story). Actually less of a problem as every team preps their own balls to their liking, not affecting their opponents' play in any way.
Aaron Rodgers basically openly admitted to doing the opposite - over inflating the balls - but you don't see people crying foul. And I am sure he's far from the only one doing that. If its the Pats, however, it's a conspiracy and cheating.

Seahawks fans should be pissed the most though - the Colts and this DeflateGate crap just lost their team the SB. Pats will rip them to shreds now, on both sides of the ball.

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The one thing I hate about modern day NFL is that every QB taken in the first round is expected to be Peyton Manning. What happened to the days when organizations were patient and willing to actually invest in a player?

yep, this is more and more widely being pointed out as one of the major issues in today's NFL. The lack of enough elite QBs (as well as lack of vision, planning for the future by franchises) puts pressure on teams and forces them into win-now mode, void of patience and desire (as well as ability) to truly develop a talented player. As you said, few rookies at the QB position are as NFL ready as an Andrew Luck or a Payton Manning, and even then it has a lot to do with being drafted into the right system/environment.

 

[Salvo]

We'll see about that.

A deflated ball makes it easier to grip in rain. There isn't really two ways about it, you had deflated balls, for some reason or another, they shouldn't have been.

 

[acmilan]

We'll see about that.

A deflated ball makes it easier to grip in rain. There isn't really two ways about it, you had deflated balls, for some reason or another, they shouldn't have been.

Sal, don't pretend like you know what you are talking about, bro.
I think it was Ron Jaworski, a former QB, who just yesterday said that an under-inflated, wet ball is also more difficult to throw down the field as it doesn't maintain a tight spiral and starts to flutter. There really isn't a universal advantage to playing with an under/over-inflated ball. QBs tell stories all the time about how they prep their own game balls - putting tart on it, scruffing the skin, playing with the air pressure, etc, etc.
Game balls don't get shipped out of teh factory right before a game and thus there is no single standard in how they are prepped thruout the NFL - it's all on an individual basis. If fairness is such a concern, why should there be a standard on air pressure but not on how the surface is tampered with? Officials touch the ball more than the QBs even during a game and officiate all over the league. Do you honestly think they wouldn't notice if only the Patriots balls are out of the norm?
Funny how it becomes a scandal, though, only after one particular team gets their shit pushed in on national TV.

 

[Salvo]

I am not claiming you wouldn't have won without it, but if its worth an investigation there must be something.

 

[ALC]

Should have more faith in Chip and his system

Mariota is the best QB talent this year, imo, but isn't NFL ready and, as Aaron said, will need to develop for a couple of years. No better system for him to do so in than Chip's. If he ends up in a place like Tampa or Tenn or Jets, the guy might as well retire as a rookie.

I have faith in the system. I don't have faith in giving up however much we would have to in order to get Mariota.

I agree about QBs being expected to perform right away and how that's not ideal. Look at Rodgers for example. But I think doing that with Mariota is way too risky when we can compete with Foles.

And yeah, that ball pressure thing shouldn't be news.

 

[Salvo]

The flat balls are perfect for the patriots short passing game. A deflated ball wont make that much of a difference. The benefits of a flat ball in the wet weather far outweigh the negatives

 

[Post Ironic]

Assuming the information coming out is true. Anyone arguing the Pats side of this, is a blatant and biased homer. There's no excuse. 11 of the 12 balls were found to be about 2 PSI under-inflated. That's 16%. That's a big difference. The amount it helps both grip for passing the ball, and the softness for catching is big. And the Pats passing game is based on short passes, and crossing routes. A deflated ball decelerates faster when thrown, so one couldn't throw it as far, and it might hang up a little on deeper throws, but on short throws, it is a huge advantage, to not be trying to throw and catch a rock hard, wet, cold, slippery ball. I played QB in high school. A harder ball sucks to grip and throw in cold weather unless you have massive hands. Hence the reason many QBs deal with wearing gloves in the cold weather.

Would the Pats have won without this advantage? Obviously. That's not the issue. They cheated. They made sure that if it was a close game they would have had an advantage. How do we know they didn't do it against the Ravens too, where a slight advantage would actually have been the difference between winning and losing. Is it a massive advantage, unlikely. But why the fuck would they do it, if it didn't provide any advantage at all? They wouldn't.

It's like bribing a referee to make sure that you win, but then you go out and dominate the match anyways, so the referee doesn't actually have to help your team. You still bribed the referee. You hedged your bet. And that's exactly what the Patriots did against the Colts. They were clearly the better team, but as they say "Any Given Sunday", so the Pats made sure that even if it was a Sunday where they had an off-game, they would have whatever advantage possible. They cheated. Plain and simple.

Again, assuming the reports are true. If they are, Bill Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl, and the Pats should be fined massively and lose several years worth of first round draft picks. If Tom Brady was involved, he should be suspended for the Super Bowl also. Blatant cheating is detrimental to the integrity of the game.

 

[acmilan]

At everyone who's willing to keep their head out of their ass regarding DeflateGate:


a 10 deg F drop in ambient temp, corresponds to a drop in pressure of about 1 psi. If you want a scientific explanation, google Ideal gas Law. If you want a more practical one - check any site that has guidelines for how to take care of your tires as summer passes and winter comes in.

Assuming the balls were checked by the refs 2hrs or so before kickoff at room temp of say 75 F (very reasonable assumption), the drop in temp of the air inside the ball half-way thru the game (to give it enough time to take on the temp of the environment - low 50s, high 40s F) would have been 20+ deg F i.e. that would account for a drop of 2+ psi in pressure. That is exactly the amount of pressure (below the level from the rulebook) the Pats' balls were reportedly missing.

---------------------

Google what Panthers kicker Graham Gano had to say on this - he says that he has to deal with kicking overly soft/deflated balls in cold-ish weather but the refs refuse to inflate them or even check the pressure during the game. He also says the pressure is checked before the game by the refs INDOORS. Mind you, these are footballs specifically used in the kicking game. They arrive directly from the factory and are under constant supervision by the refs, with neither team having any access to them:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...s-kicker-graham-gano-enters.html#.VMBbNyw9zAg

After tweeting the above, reports are Gano got blasted by haters for inadvertently defending the Pats.

--------------------
@Salvo

Here is a little something on the advantages of a deflated ball, in the rain. Brady sucked throwing the ball in the 1st half when the balls were deflated. They got fixed for the 2nd half and he was much better. I guess a 15-year vet HOF QB is incompetent enough to not know what brings him advantage/disadvantage in the game, so he shoots himself in the foot by deflating the balls.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12207314

 

[Salvo]

It will be hilarious when you lose picks.

 

[acmilan]

Assuming the information coming out is true. Anyone arguing the Pats side of this, is a blatant and biased homer. There's no excuse. 11 of the 12 balls were found to be about 2 PSI under-inflated. That's 16%. That's a big difference. The amount it helps both grip for passing the ball, and the softness for catching is big. And the Pats passing game is based on short passes, and crossing routes. A deflated ball decelerates faster when thrown, so one couldn't throw it as far, and it might hang up a little on deeper throws, but on short throws, it is a huge advantage, to not be trying to throw and catch a rock hard, wet, cold, slippery ball. I played QB in high school. A harder ball sucks to grip and throw in cold weather unless you have massive hands. Hence the reason many QBs deal with wearing gloves in the cold weather.

Would the Pats have won without this advantage? Obviously. That's not the issue. They cheated. They made sure that if it was a close game they would have had an advantage. How do we know they didn't do it against the Ravens too, where a slight advantage would actually have been the difference between winning and losing. Is it a massive advantage, unlikely. But why the fuck would they do it, if it didn't provide any advantage at all? They wouldn't.

It's like bribing a referee to make sure that you win, but then you go out and dominate the match anyways, so the referee doesn't actually have to help your team. You still bribed the referee. You hedged your bet. And that's exactly what the Patriots did against the Colts. They were clearly the better team, but as they say "Any Given Sunday", so the Pats made sure that even if it was a Sunday where they had an off-game, they would have whatever advantage possible. They cheated. Plain and simple.

Again, assuming the reports are true. If they are, Bill Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl, and the Pats should be fined massively and lose several years worth of first round draft picks. If Tom Brady was involved, he should be suspended for the Super Bowl also. Blatant cheating is detrimental to the integrity of the game.

The reports being true or not and the Pats having cheated or not are not necessarily correlated. All the, mind you rumored and unofficial, reports are saying is that 11 of 12 balls were deflated. Even if that's indeed true, that doesn't mean the Pats cheated (see above).
It's just that the sheep has made up their mind without even knowing they are talking about in the first place.

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It will be hilarious when you lose picks.

even if it were to happen, that's highly unlikely to affect the Pats much, if at all. Draft is not the only way to make an already great team even better. Just need to know what you are doing

what's more interesting is that was all you had to say, without even looking at the above.

 

[Salvo]

You know I am just fucking with you right?


But there are obviously conflicting views on whether there is an advantage or not.

It will be interesting to see what the NFL do. Didn't this happen in college or something as well?

 

[Post Ironic]

a 10 deg F drop in ambient temp, corresponds to a drop in pressure of about 1 psi. If you want a scientific explanation, google Ideal gas Law. If you want a more practical one - check any site that has guidelines for how to take care of your tires as summer passes and winter comes in.

Assuming the balls were checked by the refs 2hrs or so before kickoff at room temp of say 75 F (very reasonable assumption), the drop in temp of the air inside the ball half-way thru the game (to give it enough time to take on the temp of the environment - low 50s, high 40s F) would have been 20+ deg F i.e. that would account for a drop of 2+ psi in pressure. That is exactly the amount of pressure (below the level from the rulebook) the Pats' balls were reportedly missing.

This is total bullshit, if the reports coming out are true. As the Colts balls all tested at the proper PSI. Apparently, the Colts had noticed under inflated balls in their first match up this season, and had notified the league of it. And as soon as they intercepted a ball in this match just before halftime, the DB went to the coaches, who made it known to the officials. The balls were then checked at half-time. All the Colts balls were at proper PSI, 11/12 Pats balls were 2PSI below. Are you really trying to say that the cold weather only deflated the Pats balls? Bull shit.

Now, as I said, this is all dependent on whether the information coming out is true. But if it is. There is no possible way it was the cold weather deflating only the Pats balls. There are also other shows suggesting that a drop of .5-1 PSI might have been possible from the weather, but that would be the absolute max. And seeing as it didn't happen to the Colts balls according to reports. Well, someone in the Pats organization was deflating those balls. And they need to be punished harshly for it. IE. Suspensions. Bill Belichick certainly. And Tom Brady. Are you trying to tell me Tom Brady didn't know he was throwing a deflated football? 16% is massive, and very easily recognizable by a player constantly gripping the ball hard to throw. The refs, only just pick the ball up, place it, I could easily see them being oblivious, as they never really need to get a firm grip on the ball and are almost always wearing gloves in cold weather, but Brady would clearly know, especially seeing as the Colts noticed it a couple months ago too, suggesting the Pats have been bending the rules this way for quite some time.

If this turns out to be true, all this information coming out, they need to be hit with severe punishment for once again blatantly disregarding the rules of the game, and putting a nice black eye on NFL integrity. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.

If it's not true, then we move along. Which I would prefer anyways, as this scandal turning out to be real would really suck for NFL integrity and image.

 

[ALC]

NFL's integrity, yeah. Goodell has done wonders for that.

 

[Post Ironic]

NFL's integrity, yeah. Goodell has done wonders for that.

That's exactly what I mean. A scandal like this now, would be shitty.

 

[ALC]

I personally think its being blown out of proportion. What about Rodgers over inflating his balls?

And I hate the Pats btw

 

[blondu]

who on earth gave this guy the highest qb salary in nfl?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

thats mike tice trying to get his attention, id have the same reaction