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CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- The "Deflategate'' controversy in New England resurrected questions former Carolina Panthers general manager Marty Hurney had about the Patriots after losing Super Bowl XXXVIII.
Hurney, now the host of a weekday radio talk show on Charlotte's ESPN 730 AM and an ESPN NFL Insider, shared those questions on Thursday regarding Carolina's 32-29 loss to the Patriots on Feb. 1, 2004.
"There isn't a day that goes by since [then] that I haven't questioned ... that there were some things done that might have been beyond the rules that may have given them a three-point advantage,'' Hurney said during his radio show.
"This isn't about deflating balls. ... It's an issue of if there is a culture of cheating at the organization that most people look at as the gold standard in this league. Is there a culture of cheating and breaking the rules?"
"And I can't prove anything, and that's why I'm very angry. And the anger has come back over the last couple of days that commissioner Roger Goodell decided to shred all of the evidence after 'Spygate,' because I think there were a lot of things in there that would bring closure to a lot of people.''
The NFL is investigating why 11 of 12 football used by the Patriots in Sunday's 45-7 win over Indianapolis in the AFC Championship Game were underinflated significantly below the league requirements.
"To me this isn't about 'Deflategate', this isn't about anything having to do about any particular game last week,'' Hurney said. "And it certainly isn't fodder to get by the first week before the Super Bowl.
"This is about a culture. Is there a culture of cheating at probably what most people look at as the best franchise in the National Football League?''
It was revealed in 2007 that the New England Patriots were caught illegally taping sideline defensive signals from New York Jets coaches during the team's opening week game. The "Spygate" controversy led to accusations that such activity has been going on since 2000.
"There are people who swear to me that the Patriots taped our practice down in Houston during Super Bowl week," Hurney said. "I can't prove it. I don't know. And I hate talking like this because I feel like a bad loser, but it just gnaws at you and this latest incident brings it back up.
"You go to 'Spygate' after our Super Bowl and things came out about a rumor about a video guy, and he had tapes and he goes to Hawaii and kind of disappears. ... These are all rumors and I can't substantiate any of this. But it gnaws at you."
Hurney made it clear the Panthers weren't completely innocent of violating rules during their Super Bowl year. He brought up a report that came out after the season which said several Carolina players bought steroids from a South Carolina physician.
Among those cited in the report were three of the five starting offensive linemen.
"That was wrong," Hurney said. "The organization didn't know anything about it, and we took steps and we addressed that. We weren't going to put up with that. [Team owner] Jerry Richardson wasn't going to put up with that.
"To me, this isn't about deflating balls; it's about a continuing culture of alleged cheating, and to me, everybody's talking about [coach] Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. When is Robert Kraft going to come up and explain why, if they are found guilty of this, why do these things keep happening in this organization?"
Hurney said the current allegations against New England aggravate him because "it really pulls up some pretty big scabs.'' He admittedly kept track of New England's playoff record after "Spygate."
"They were 6-6 in the playoffs," he said. "Now they're getting to the Super Bowl and you're saying this is all behind them and this comes up. This isn't about deflating balls; this is about is there a culture of cheating that they'll do anything to get an edge.
"This is a bigger issue, and I think most people are missing the issue. It's an issue of if there is a culture of cheating at the organization that most people look at as the gold standard in this league. Is there a culture of cheating and breaking the rules?''
Hall of Famer Troy Aikman joined the fray in addressing Deflategate. In his weekly interview on SportsRadio 1310 AM and 96.7 FM in Dallas, Aikman said "it's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this."
"I know going back to when I played, they've loosened up the rules in terms of what each team is able to do with the footballs coming into the game. Used to, the home team provided all the balls. And now, each team brings their footballs the way they like them and break 'em in," Aikman said. "Used to you couldn't break them in. So for the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes did Bill Belichick know about it."
Hurney wasn't surprised that Belichick denied any knowledge of wrongdoing.
"What did you expect him to say?" he said. "I don't expect the league to come out and say anything before the Super Bowl. I hope they do, but I still go back to why were all the documents shredded after that investigation if there weren't highly damaging facts about what the Patriots did.
"... You go to people and teams, people that have played them and feel like I do that they might have had an unfair advantage. You're going to feel that way. But winning that Super Bowl, when you work in the National Football League, that completes your career and that's all you work for. And when there's a question about it, that's why I wanted to see the evidence, and that's why I'm so upset about the evidence being shredded.''
Hurney said the history of the Patriots under Belichick makes him wary of what the coach says.
"I know I don't trust anything that Bill Belichick says because of all the rumors that are out there,'' he said. "That's why I want to see the report. I want to see what they did or what they didn't do.
"I can't prove any of this. But where there's smoke, a lot of times there's fire.''
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Myself, I still want to know what was in all those documents and video evidence that the NFL destroyed without releasing after Spygate? And if it was just the "supposedly" minor infractions of taping opposing teams hand signals, etc. in order to make halftime adjustments, as the NFL said, why did they destroy it?
It's too bad there was no transparency in that investigation, as I'd bet almost anything the rampant rumours of them taping opposing teams SuperBowl walkthrough practices are true, both against the Rams and the Panthers. It's too bad there is no way to ever know now, seeing as the NFL destroyed all evidence, and we have to rely on their abbreviated truth about what that "evidence" was. They have to protect their image and integrity at all costs. And if they found that the Pats had really seriously cheated to gain advantages as Hurney and others have suggested in their 3 SB wins under Belichick, then you can bet your life the NFL would have done all they could to cover it up and destroy the evidence. Having to strip a team of their SB victories several years later for blatant cheating, the damage that would do to the sport's credibility would take years to undo.
Now, I don't think that these issues only belong to the Pats. But the Pats have been caught red-handed multiple times now. First it was interfering with opposing teams radio communications in their stadium, then it was spygate which the NFL destroyed all evidence of, and now it is breaking the rules with the game balls. If this latest instance is what reports are suggesting it is, the organization needs to be severely punished. Brady needs to be suspended for the SB, and so should Bill Belichick (see Sean Payton).
Hurney, now the host of a weekday radio talk show on Charlotte's ESPN 730 AM and an ESPN NFL Insider, shared those questions on Thursday regarding Carolina's 32-29 loss to the Patriots on Feb. 1, 2004.
"There isn't a day that goes by since [then] that I haven't questioned ... that there were some things done that might have been beyond the rules that may have given them a three-point advantage,'' Hurney said during his radio show.
"This isn't about deflating balls. ... It's an issue of if there is a culture of cheating at the organization that most people look at as the gold standard in this league. Is there a culture of cheating and breaking the rules?"
"And I can't prove anything, and that's why I'm very angry. And the anger has come back over the last couple of days that commissioner Roger Goodell decided to shred all of the evidence after 'Spygate,' because I think there were a lot of things in there that would bring closure to a lot of people.''
The NFL is investigating why 11 of 12 football used by the Patriots in Sunday's 45-7 win over Indianapolis in the AFC Championship Game were underinflated significantly below the league requirements.
"To me this isn't about 'Deflategate', this isn't about anything having to do about any particular game last week,'' Hurney said. "And it certainly isn't fodder to get by the first week before the Super Bowl.
"This is about a culture. Is there a culture of cheating at probably what most people look at as the best franchise in the National Football League?''
It was revealed in 2007 that the New England Patriots were caught illegally taping sideline defensive signals from New York Jets coaches during the team's opening week game. The "Spygate" controversy led to accusations that such activity has been going on since 2000.
"There are people who swear to me that the Patriots taped our practice down in Houston during Super Bowl week," Hurney said. "I can't prove it. I don't know. And I hate talking like this because I feel like a bad loser, but it just gnaws at you and this latest incident brings it back up.
"You go to 'Spygate' after our Super Bowl and things came out about a rumor about a video guy, and he had tapes and he goes to Hawaii and kind of disappears. ... These are all rumors and I can't substantiate any of this. But it gnaws at you."
Hurney made it clear the Panthers weren't completely innocent of violating rules during their Super Bowl year. He brought up a report that came out after the season which said several Carolina players bought steroids from a South Carolina physician.
Among those cited in the report were three of the five starting offensive linemen.
"That was wrong," Hurney said. "The organization didn't know anything about it, and we took steps and we addressed that. We weren't going to put up with that. [Team owner] Jerry Richardson wasn't going to put up with that.
"To me, this isn't about deflating balls; it's about a continuing culture of alleged cheating, and to me, everybody's talking about [coach] Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. When is Robert Kraft going to come up and explain why, if they are found guilty of this, why do these things keep happening in this organization?"
Hurney said the current allegations against New England aggravate him because "it really pulls up some pretty big scabs.'' He admittedly kept track of New England's playoff record after "Spygate."
"They were 6-6 in the playoffs," he said. "Now they're getting to the Super Bowl and you're saying this is all behind them and this comes up. This isn't about deflating balls; this is about is there a culture of cheating that they'll do anything to get an edge.
"This is a bigger issue, and I think most people are missing the issue. It's an issue of if there is a culture of cheating at the organization that most people look at as the gold standard in this league. Is there a culture of cheating and breaking the rules?''
Hall of Famer Troy Aikman joined the fray in addressing Deflategate. In his weekly interview on SportsRadio 1310 AM and 96.7 FM in Dallas, Aikman said "it's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this."
"I know going back to when I played, they've loosened up the rules in terms of what each team is able to do with the footballs coming into the game. Used to, the home team provided all the balls. And now, each team brings their footballs the way they like them and break 'em in," Aikman said. "Used to you couldn't break them in. So for the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that. Now the question becomes did Bill Belichick know about it."
Hurney wasn't surprised that Belichick denied any knowledge of wrongdoing.
"What did you expect him to say?" he said. "I don't expect the league to come out and say anything before the Super Bowl. I hope they do, but I still go back to why were all the documents shredded after that investigation if there weren't highly damaging facts about what the Patriots did.
"... You go to people and teams, people that have played them and feel like I do that they might have had an unfair advantage. You're going to feel that way. But winning that Super Bowl, when you work in the National Football League, that completes your career and that's all you work for. And when there's a question about it, that's why I wanted to see the evidence, and that's why I'm so upset about the evidence being shredded.''
Hurney said the history of the Patriots under Belichick makes him wary of what the coach says.
"I know I don't trust anything that Bill Belichick says because of all the rumors that are out there,'' he said. "That's why I want to see the report. I want to see what they did or what they didn't do.
"I can't prove any of this. But where there's smoke, a lot of times there's fire.''
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Myself, I still want to know what was in all those documents and video evidence that the NFL destroyed without releasing after Spygate? And if it was just the "supposedly" minor infractions of taping opposing teams hand signals, etc. in order to make halftime adjustments, as the NFL said, why did they destroy it?
It's too bad there was no transparency in that investigation, as I'd bet almost anything the rampant rumours of them taping opposing teams SuperBowl walkthrough practices are true, both against the Rams and the Panthers. It's too bad there is no way to ever know now, seeing as the NFL destroyed all evidence, and we have to rely on their abbreviated truth about what that "evidence" was. They have to protect their image and integrity at all costs. And if they found that the Pats had really seriously cheated to gain advantages as Hurney and others have suggested in their 3 SB wins under Belichick, then you can bet your life the NFL would have done all they could to cover it up and destroy the evidence. Having to strip a team of their SB victories several years later for blatant cheating, the damage that would do to the sport's credibility would take years to undo.
Now, I don't think that these issues only belong to the Pats. But the Pats have been caught red-handed multiple times now. First it was interfering with opposing teams radio communications in their stadium, then it was spygate which the NFL destroyed all evidence of, and now it is breaking the rules with the game balls. If this latest instance is what reports are suggesting it is, the organization needs to be severely punished. Brady needs to be suspended for the SB, and so should Bill Belichick (see Sean Payton).
It's basic science, not BS. 0.5-1.0 psi drop is for every 10-15 deg F in temp change, not the max possible drop (see one of the clips below).
The problem is that you, like many others, didn't need to know all the facts/details in order to form a biased, uninformed opinion. Sure, you drop in the usual "if true" in the middle of a tirade of accusations (eg ESPN) but that doesn't change the overall bias of the rhetoric.
The reality is that no official report has come out of the NFL, only a pile of speculative, one-sided crap dressed as facts by ESPN with the usual "sources tell us".
As a quick review - the balls can be inflated in a range of 12.5-13.5. Physics works for everyone (both Pats and Colts) all the same. The problem is we don't know if their balls didn't deflate as well (that is, no pressure is being mentioned when it comes the balls for the Colts). Also, no one knows how inflated the Colts balls were from the beginning - may be they had them at the top limit of the range (13.5 psi) or maybe they had them over-inflated (above regulation), just like Aaron freaking Rodgers OPENLY ADMITTED he always does. That would leave room for natural deflation during the game, leaving their balls within the allowed range ... presumably, as no pressure readings have been mentioned with BSPN being too busy to go on a witch-hunt.
Additionally there are many reports coming out that the process of signing off on balls isn't rigorous and refs often don't even measure the air pressure but just pass balls based on a feel/eye-test basis. Hence why Rodgers keeps feeding them over-inflated balls - he wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work in his favor. This additionally throws the reported/speculated numbers of actual air pressure of Pats footballs in the mud. It may well be the case the refs simply didn't take any exact pressure measurements of the balls of either team and are now running to save their jobs by claiming they did.
Here is a physics prof. (Michael Naughton), saying basically what I said:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/p...-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/
Here is a video with an experiment carried out by a Pittsburgh-based science lab, which also includes damping the surface of the balls (simulating rain) as that would additionally influence the air pressure, making the experiment as close as possible to the real thing. They claim as much as 1.9 psi drop for room temps of 75 F and outised/game temps of 50 F (like yours truly suggested
):
And here is BSPN pulling their own video from their website (ESPN SportScience by John Brenkus), which video inadvertently backed up the Pats, going against the BS the network has been pushing down people's throats for days now:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/24/e...deflate-gate-clip-exonerating-patriots-video/
The video can still be seen here:
All in all, BSPN pulled a FOX NEWS there and the wheels are coming off that hate wagon. The past couple of days they have been removing original clips and articles on the matter as more and more science-based evidence comes rushing in to support the Pats' case.
BSPN - the obituary of responsible sports journalism. Stuart Scott, may he RIP, must be spinning in his grave. He and Rich Eisen were one of the few people with honor in that circus, both gone. Now it's degenerates like Brunell and bettis and whatnot that are the face of network.
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don't make me laugh, Sal. There is no science and only poor journalism on that table. Many more people have come out saying it's hard to feel any difference in the ball within several psi range (QBs like Boomer Esiason and Gannon come to mind right now.
Even ESPN's own Sports Science clip said the same - the rain made a lot more difference than a 2-psi drop in pressure ... and ESPN have now taken it down from their own website
That can tell all you need to know about the credibility of that bunch of clowns up there.
Fucking Mark Brunell even got misty, chocking in his voice, when Brady denied any wrong-doing ... fucking circus ... easily Brunell's most embarrassing moment in his life and that's a guy who had snot wiped on his jacket by Mark freakin Sanchez:
That's your high-character expert right there - playing the role of Sanchez' snot towel. Fuckin jerk-off wasted 75 mil after he retired from the NFL and will play a clown for any circus now, if it pays enough.
The problem is that you, like many others, didn't need to know all the facts/details in order to form a biased, uninformed opinion. Sure, you drop in the usual "if true" in the middle of a tirade of accusations (eg ESPN) but that doesn't change the overall bias of the rhetoric.
The reality is that no official report has come out of the NFL, only a pile of speculative, one-sided crap dressed as facts by ESPN with the usual "sources tell us".
As a quick review - the balls can be inflated in a range of 12.5-13.5. Physics works for everyone (both Pats and Colts) all the same. The problem is we don't know if their balls didn't deflate as well (that is, no pressure is being mentioned when it comes the balls for the Colts). Also, no one knows how inflated the Colts balls were from the beginning - may be they had them at the top limit of the range (13.5 psi) or maybe they had them over-inflated (above regulation), just like Aaron freaking Rodgers OPENLY ADMITTED he always does. That would leave room for natural deflation during the game, leaving their balls within the allowed range ... presumably, as no pressure readings have been mentioned with BSPN being too busy to go on a witch-hunt.
Additionally there are many reports coming out that the process of signing off on balls isn't rigorous and refs often don't even measure the air pressure but just pass balls based on a feel/eye-test basis. Hence why Rodgers keeps feeding them over-inflated balls - he wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work in his favor. This additionally throws the reported/speculated numbers of actual air pressure of Pats footballs in the mud. It may well be the case the refs simply didn't take any exact pressure measurements of the balls of either team and are now running to save their jobs by claiming they did.
Here is a physics prof. (Michael Naughton), saying basically what I said:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/p...-deflate-gate-accusations-with-science-video/
Here is a video with an experiment carried out by a Pittsburgh-based science lab, which also includes damping the surface of the balls (simulating rain) as that would additionally influence the air pressure, making the experiment as close as possible to the real thing. They claim as much as 1.9 psi drop for room temps of 75 F and outised/game temps of 50 F (like yours truly suggested
):And here is BSPN pulling their own video from their website (ESPN SportScience by John Brenkus), which video inadvertently backed up the Pats, going against the BS the network has been pushing down people's throats for days now:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/24/e...deflate-gate-clip-exonerating-patriots-video/
The video can still be seen here:
All in all, BSPN pulled a FOX NEWS there and the wheels are coming off that hate wagon. The past couple of days they have been removing original clips and articles on the matter as more and more science-based evidence comes rushing in to support the Pats' case.
BSPN - the obituary of responsible sports journalism. Stuart Scott, may he RIP, must be spinning in his grave. He and Rich Eisen were one of the few people with honor in that circus, both gone. Now it's degenerates like Brunell and bettis and whatnot that are the face of network.
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don't make me laugh, Sal. There is no science and only poor journalism on that table. Many more people have come out saying it's hard to feel any difference in the ball within several psi range (QBs like Boomer Esiason and Gannon come to mind right now.
Even ESPN's own Sports Science clip said the same - the rain made a lot more difference than a 2-psi drop in pressure ... and ESPN have now taken it down from their own website
That can tell all you need to know about the credibility of that bunch of clowns up there.
Fucking Mark Brunell even got misty, chocking in his voice, when Brady denied any wrong-doing ... fucking circus ... easily Brunell's most embarrassing moment in his life and that's a guy who had snot wiped on his jacket by Mark freakin Sanchez:
That's your high-character expert right there - playing the role of Sanchez' snot towel. Fuckin jerk-off wasted 75 mil after he retired from the NFL and will play a clown for any circus now, if it pays enough.
a suspension for Brady and Belichick is all they care about (as well as decking the Pats a 1st round pick). The whole thing eas started by Jim Irsay - the owner of the Colts - reported by and eventually blown-up into a scandal by Indy beat writers for the Indy Star.
For reference - 10 years ago or so, Jim Irsay pushed for changing defensive holding calls and PI penalties when he realized that his Manning-lead Colts would never beat the Pats and make it to the SB. Eventually, Irsay ended up making the game-rules committee of the NFL and passed those rules. Result - Colts beat Pats in the 2006 AFC title game after a ton of PI and holding calls on the Pats D and Colts made the Sb, where they beat the Bears.
Look at the situation now - Colts have beaten virtually every other team in the AFc but the Pats, who have heavily over-matched them in 4 games in the Pagano-Luck era. The Pats are the only team standing between the Colts and the SB right now. How do you think that dynamic would change if Belichik and Brady were suspended for 2015, as the Indy media has been pushing for?
There you go ...
For reference - 10 years ago or so, Jim Irsay pushed for changing defensive holding calls and PI penalties when he realized that his Manning-lead Colts would never beat the Pats and make it to the SB. Eventually, Irsay ended up making the game-rules committee of the NFL and passed those rules. Result - Colts beat Pats in the 2006 AFC title game after a ton of PI and holding calls on the Pats D and Colts made the Sb, where they beat the Bears.
Look at the situation now - Colts have beaten virtually every other team in the AFc but the Pats, who have heavily over-matched them in 4 games in the Pagano-Luck era. The Pats are the only team standing between the Colts and the SB right now. How do you think that dynamic would change if Belichik and Brady were suspended for 2015, as the Indy media has been pushing for?
There you go ...
Who started the whole thing - Colts brass (Irsay) called the NFL. Bob Kravitz of the Indy Star was the first one to report on the investigation. He was also the first one to start preaching that BB should be fired by Kraft (Pats owner) and suspended by the NFL for at least a year (when the normal fine for such a violation is a sorry-ass $25K)
These are all facts.
you can check the part where Irsay became head of the rules committee 10 years ago and changed the rules. the thing is, you don't have to take my word for it. That same year, iirc, Colts finally beat the Pats in the play-offs and won the SB.
One more fact - that same Bob Kravitz (of the Indy Star) was also the journalist whom Irsay gave an exclusive right after Irsay got arrested driving drunk with drugs in his car, earlier this year. feel free to connect the dots.
These are all facts.
you can check the part where Irsay became head of the rules committee 10 years ago and changed the rules. the thing is, you don't have to take my word for it. That same year, iirc, Colts finally beat the Pats in the play-offs and won the SB.
One more fact - that same Bob Kravitz (of the Indy Star) was also the journalist whom Irsay gave an exclusive right after Irsay got arrested driving drunk with drugs in his car, earlier this year. feel free to connect the dots.
