American NFL Football (19 Viewers)

[Enron]

Yeah, I saw that. It was either going to be the Colts or the 49ers, for obvious reasons (Stanford Connections). 49ers basically gave up nothing to get him. Maybe in the right enviroment he can be a solid back up OT to Staley and Davis.

I like the pick. Kid gets to "go home". Should add depth to the O Line and you can never have too much of that.

Looks like my Texans are going to lose their two best tight ends.

 

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[KB824]

I like the pick. Kid gets to "go home". Should add depth to the O Line and you can never have too much of that.

Looks like my Texans are going to lose their two best tight ends.

I know they cut Owen Daniels, but who was their 2nd TE?

There's some TE talent in the draft, but it's a crapshoot as to whether one of the Top TE prospects will still be there with the first pick in the 2nd round, especially with the Patriots hanging around at the end of the first round if Jace Amaro is still on the board.

 

[acmilan]

Relax on both fronts, @Salvo.


Gabbert is a back up QB for a 6th round pick. That is all he's going to be. No better, no worse than Colt McCoy, and most of Gabbert's rookie contract has already been paid, and they are currently renegotiatiing the final year to bring the salary closer to 1 million this year. The Niners have 11 other draft picks.


Bethea at 4 years 23 million = Whitner 4 years at 28 million, and Whitner got much more guaranteed money than Bethea. Bethea doesn't get ridiculous unnecessary roughness penalties the way that Whitner did.

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I never liked Blaine Gabbert. I think I said something along the lines of that I would kill myself if they had drafted him a few years ago.


EDIT- Bethea's contract is 4 years, 21 million, with 8 million guaranteed. Whitner's contract is 4 years 28 million with 13 million guaranteed.

Aah, there he is ... just messing with you, Serg

that Bethea for Whitner thing is a wash, I think - with actual contract values still finding there way to the surface - but guess it's a bit of a wash, with an asterisk. Both players are primarily run stuffing SSs, liability in coverage (although Whitner seemed to have improved a bit last year), about the same age, Bethea comes a tad cheaper at the expense of losing a player who's familiar with the system and you don't have to wonder how he would fit in. But here is the asterisk - Bethea was a good SS behind a pretty abysmal front 7 for the Colts (that's been the case for years now), while Whitner was it playing with one of the best front 7s in the league. Makes you wonder how Bethea would look behind the Smiths, Bowman and Willis ... guess will just have to wait and see.

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I know they cut Owen Daniels, but who was their 2nd TE?

There's some TE talent in the draft, but it's a crapshoot as to whether one of the Top TE prospects will still be there with the first pick in the 2nd round, especially with the Patriots hanging around at the end of the first round if Jace Amaro is still on the board.

pats are highly unlikely to take Amaro anywhere in the early round or two - not a good scheme fit - no matter how hard draft "experts" are trying to make it happen in their mocks. Would be a good fit for the Texans, I guess and a pretty short ride for him too.

 

[KB824]

Aah, there he is ... just messing with you, Serg

that Bethea for Whitner thing is a wash, I think - with actual contract values still finding there way to the surface - but guess it's a bit of a wash, with an asterisk. Both players are primarily run stuffing SSs, liability in coverage (although Whitner seemed to have improved a bit last year), about the same age, Bethea comes a tad cheaper at the expense of losing a player who's familiar with the system and you don't have to wonder how he would fit in. But here is the asterisk - Bethea was a good SS behind a pretty abysmal front 7 for the Colts (that's been the case for years now), while Whitner was it playing with one of the best front 7s in the league. Makes you wonder how Bethea would look behind the Smiths, Bowman and Willis ... guess will just have to wait and see.

I definitely think that it is a wash, and despite Bethea being a year older, the money makes more sense for the 49ers at this point, with only 8 million guaranteed in contrast to Whitner's 13 million. Playing behind the Smiths, Bowman, Willis, and playing next to Eric Reid will certainly help, even if he probably won't make as many tackles now since opposing runing backs will more than likely not be getting 3-4 years past the line of scrimmage on a consistent basis like it was for him in Indianapolis. The fact that Bethea didn't commit a single penalty last year says a bit about his control and discipline as a player.


I mean, I'm not over the moon with the signing, but with the SS class being fairly weak this year in the draft, I guess it's not a bad move.

 

[acmilan]

Johnathan Martin to the 49ers.

a match made in heaven - a whiner to the Whiners ... and before someone explodes off their pants, just kidding

 

[KB824]

Aah, there he is ... just messing with you, Serg

that Bethea for Whitner thing is a wash, I think - with actual contract values still finding there way to the surface - but guess it's a bit of a wash, with an asterisk. Both players are primarily run stuffing SSs, liability in coverage (although Whitner seemed to have improved a bit last year), about the same age, Bethea comes a tad cheaper at the expense of losing a player who's familiar with the system and you don't have to wonder how he would fit in. But here is the asterisk - Bethea was a good SS behind a pretty abysmal front 7 for the Colts (that's been the case for years now), while Whitner was it playing with one of the best front 7s in the league. Makes you wonder how Bethea would look behind the Smiths, Bowman and Willis ... guess will just have to wait and see.

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pats are highly unlikely to take Amaro anywhere in the early round or two - not a good scheme fit - no matter how hard draft "experts" are trying to make it happen in their mocks. Would be a good fit for the Texans, I guess and a pretty short ride for him too.

If I may comment on this though, if I remember correctly, the Patriots are not flush with draft picks this year though. They may actaully have to draft for need this year.

 

[acmilan]

If I may comment on this though, if I remember correctly, the Patriots are not flush with draft picks this year though. They may actaully have to draft for need this year.

7 picks this year but how the draft goes would depend on FA-cy as they may get a vet TE, WR, etc and then go for best value available in the draft. They are likely to draft a TE no matter what, though - Niklas and Fiedorowicz being the the best scheme fits among the top players at the position.

 

[KB824]

7 picks this year but how the draft goes would depend on FA-cy as they may get a vet TE, WR, etc and then go for best value available in the draft. They are likely to draft a TE no matter what, though - Niklas and Fiedorowicz being the the best scheme fits among the top players at the position.

Where do you see the Patriots going in the first round?


Don't ask on what I think the 49ers are going to do, because I have no idea right now.

 

[Enron]

I know they cut Owen Daniels, but who was their 2nd TE?

There's some TE talent in the draft, but it's a crapshoot as to whether one of the Top TE prospects will still be there with the first pick in the 2nd round, especially with the Patriots hanging around at the end of the first round if Jace Amaro is still on the board.

Garret Graham. His stat line this season was 49/545/5. We do a decent job of developing young tight ends. James Casey before Graham was a baller.

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Where do you see the Patriots going in the first round?


Don't ask on what I think the 49ers are going to do, because I have no idea right now.

You guys can pretty much take the best player available.

 

[acmilan]

Where do you see the Patriots going in the first round?


Don't ask on what I think the 49ers are going to do, because I have no idea right now.

with BB it's usually DL, OL or secondary in the first. TE is a need too but as I said the good fits at TE have a 2nd-3rd round grade (that's excluding Ebron from the mix). If I were to mention players likely or with at least an outside chance to fall to the Pats, I'd say - CB Kyle Fuller, NT Louis Nix, DL Stephon Tuitt or Rashede Hageman, OG Xavier Su'a Filo and OL Zack Martin (more of a G than a T at the pros).
Tuitt may have played himself out of 1st round consideration by now but can see the Pats go for him there if the need is still high after free agency and they can't find a good partner to trade out of the 1st, which I think would be their most preferred scenario in a draft this deep.

A curve ball by BB could be someone like LB Ryan Shazier or Kyle Van Noy as they seem to looking to get faster and more athletic at LB after leting Spikes go but that's not very likely and Woodyard seems to have peaked their interest for that position in free agency.

the 9ers I think would go CB (Roby or Fuller), DL (Nix, Tuitt), Wr (Cooks, maybe Beckham too) and LB (Shazier) ... that's the best I can do

 

[KB824]

Garret Graham. His stat line this season was 49/545/5. We do a decent job of developing young tight ends. James Casey before Graham was a baller.

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You guys can pretty much take the best player available.

They've got a ton of picks this year in a draft this deep. ( potentially 6 picks in the first 3 rounds depending on the Compensatory Pick for Gholdson) Not a bad thing to have.

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with BB it's usually DL, OL or secondary in the first. TE is a need too but as I said the good fits at TE have a 2nd-3rd round grade (that's excluding Ebron from the mix). If I were to mention players likely or with at least an outside chance to fall to the Pats, I'd say - CB Kyle Fuller, NT Louis Nix, DL Stephon Tuitt or Rashede Hageman, OG Xavier Su'a Filo and OL Zack Martin (more of a G than a T at the pros).
Tuitt may have played himself out of 1st round consideration by now but can see the Pats go for him there if the need is still high after free agency and they can't find a good partner to trade out of the 1st, which I think would be their most preferred scenario in a draft this deep.

A curve ball by BB could be someone like LB Ryan Shazier or Kyle Van Noy as they seem to looking to get faster and more athletic at LB after leting Spikes go but that's not very likely and Woodyard seems to have peaked their interest for that position in free agency.

the 9ers I think would go CB (Roby or Fuller), DL (Nix, Tuitt), Wr (Cooks, maybe Beckham too) and LB (Shazier) ... that's the best I can do

I think that DL will depend on the health/contract restructuring of Kelly and Wilfork. They had a couple of youngsters that played well in their absences, so that might not be as pressing an issue. I'm not terribly enamored with any DL this year with the exception of Clowney, and even with that I see him being an OLB in a 3-4, and Jernigan from Florida State.

I could see LB, it would make sense. Shazier had a balzing 40 time which pushed him up the draft board. But he is just so light at 229 pounds


EDIT- I forgot someone at DL. Dominique Easley from Florida. Yes, he's injury prone, but if he can get over his injuries, he could be a beast.

 

[acmilan]

They've got a ton of picks this year in a draft this deep. ( potentially 6 picks in the first 3 rounds depending on the Compensatory Pick for Gholdson) Not a bad thing to have.

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I think that DL will depend on the health/contract restructuring of Kelly and Wilfork. They had a couple of youngsters that played well in their absences, so that might not be as pressing an issue. I'm not terribly enamored with any DL this year with the exception of Clowney, and even with that I see him being an OLB in a 3-4, and Jernigan from Florida State.

I could see LB, it would make sense. Shazier had a balzing 40 time which pushed him up the draft board. But he is just so light at 229 pounds


EDIT- I forgot someone at DL. Dominique Easley from Florida. Yes, he's injury prone, but if he can get over his injuries, he could be a beast.

even if wilfork and kelly make it back this year, which is a huge if in VW's case, they would be 33 and 34 yo, respectively. The youngsters from last year played well at times - Siliga and Cris Jones, in particular - but are still an open question when it comes to sticking around in the long run. With the Pats opting not to address the position in free agency so far, where the top talent is gone already, would make sense if they left fixing the middle of the D to the draft (Nix, Tuitt and DaQuan jones would probably garner the most attention there).

Shazier tested at 6'1"-6'2" at 237 lbs at the combine. I'd say he is at most 5 lbs away, if that, from the ideal size of a 3-down backer in today's NFL (both bowman and Willis are somewhere at 6'1 240lbs iirc).

Easley maight make more sense for the 9ers but not the Pats (better fit as a 3-4 DE). Even then, best part of his game is his agility, speed as a big DE/undersized-DT and that's what's affected the most with those two ACL surgeries in 2 or so years. With the latest one likely preventing him from full training camp activities (red shirt rookie season looks likely), he's possibly more of a mid-round flier of a pick, imo.

 

[Salvo]

Relax on both fronts, @Salvo.


Gabbert is a back up QB for a 6th round pick. That is all he's going to be. No better, no worse than Colt McCoy, and most of Gabbert's rookie contract has already been paid, and they are currently renegotiatiing the final year to bring the salary closer to 1 million this year. The Niners have 11 other draft picks.


Bethea at 4 years 23 million = Whitner 4 years at 28 million, and Whitner got much more guaranteed money than Bethea. Bethea doesn't get ridiculous unnecessary roughness penalties the way that Whitner did.

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I never liked Blaine Gabbert. I think I said something along the lines of that I would kill myself if they had drafted him a few years ago.


EDIT- Bethea's contract is 4 years, 21 million, with 8 million guaranteed. Whitner's contract is 4 years 28 million with 13 million guaranteed.

Yeah I didn't really panic. I quite liked hitner though.

 

[Salvo]

Denver got ware?

 

[acmilan]

#kisstherings

 

[KB824]

Well, I guess we can scratch CB off of their draft needs this year . @acmilan it would be pretty redundant of me to tell you how great of a pickup this was.

They need to go all in to match Denver and they certainly took a big step in that direction.

Congrats bro.

I wish the Niners would sign a CB. Or 2. Tarell Brown and DRC would be a nice start.

 

[acmilan]

Well, I guess we can scratch CB off of their draft needs this year . @acmilan it would be pretty redundant of me to tell you how great of a pickup this was.

They need to go all in to match Denver and they certainly took a big step in that direction.

Congrats bro.

I wish the Niners would sign a CB. Or 2. Tarell Brown and DRC would be a nice start.

Thanks, man. That was a hell of surprise last night as the Pats weren't exactly known for opening up their coffers like that but what the Broncos had done the day before, forced the Pats' hand ... probably all of Boston and half of NE was getting drunk till dawn . Still, investments like this do come with their risks - one injury and it's all gone to shit, I guess

And today, just as I am hoping they would get tall, physical CB on the cheap on top of Revis, it seems Browner is coming over for a visit - In your face, Ed

They might still draft a CB early, though, depending on the value that's available. For all anyone knows, Revis is just a 1-year rent of a player but does represent a good teaching/grooming "environment" for a rookie.

Hope they aren't anywhere near done in free agency yet 'cause they need some veteran help on O for Tommy and the pass-rush could use an extra-bit of help too.

I don't know what the 9ers cap situation is but they will likely get at least one vet CB - I am thinking one of Brown, DRC and maybe Chromartie, as he would be cheaper. And then a CB somewhere in the top 2 rounds. Point is, you guys don't need a top-notch, big money lock-down corner to make it work, while the Pats needed someone like Revis to solidify that entire secondary.

P.S. Rex Ryan has a wire brush to scrub off that nasty Sanchez tattoo and he calls it "Derrelle"

 

[Enron]

Decker to Jets.

 

[KB824]

Thanks, man. That was a hell of surprise last night as the Pats weren't exactly known for opening up their coffers like that but what the Broncos had done the day before, forced the Pats' hand ... probably all of Boston and half of NE was getting drunk till dawn . Still, investments like this do come with their risks - one injury and it's all gone to shit, I guess

And today, just as I am hoping they would get tall, physical CB on the cheap on top of Revis, it seems Browner is coming over for a visit - In your face, Ed

They might still draft a CB early, though, depending on the value that's available. For all anyone knows, Revis is just a 1-year rent of a player but does represent a good teaching/grooming "environment" for a rookie.

Hope they aren't anywhere near done in free agency yet 'cause they need some veteran help on O for Tommy and the pass-rush could use an extra-bit of help too.

I don't know what the 9ers cap situation is but they will likely get at least one vet CB - I am thinking one of Brown, DRC and maybe Chromartie, as he would be cheaper. And then a CB somewhere in the top 2 rounds. Point is, you guys don't need a top-notch, big money lock-down corner to make it work, while the Pats needed someone like Revis to solidify that entire secondary.

P.S. Rex Ryan has a wire brush to scrub off that nasty Sanchez tattoo and he calls it "Derrelle"

Stay far, far away from Browner. He is a product of that defense more than anyone else in that Seattle secondary. In fact, their Secondary actually got better when he got suspended. Not worth the risk, in my opinion. I think that a Dominique Rodgers Cromartie fits the Pats scheme more than Browner.

In regards to the niners, I think they have 17 million in cap space as of right now, but they certainly need a couple of really good CB's. Their pass rush is too inconsistent. Tremaine Brock has promise and Chris Culliver is coming back, but I'm not feeling all too well about having them as the starting CB's. I really do want DRC, but we will see what the market offers. There wre rumblings about the Niners possibly signing Steve Smith as well. We'll see.

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Decker to Jets.

Oh yeah, that wasn't for the money. Nope, not at all. Because anyone with half a brain would much rather be catching passes from Geno Smith than Peyton manning.

 

[acmilan]

Stay far, far away from Browner. He is a product of that defense more than anyone else in that Seattle secondary. In fact, their Secondary actually got better when he got suspended, yet again, for banned substances. Not worth the risk, in my opinion. I think that a Dominique Rodgers Cromartie fits the Pats scheme more than Browner.

In regards to the niners, I think they have 17 million in cap space as of right now, but they certainly need a couple of really good CB's. Their pass rush is too inconsistent. Tremaine Brock has promise and Chris Culliver is coming back, but I'm not feeling all too well about having them as the starting CB's. I really do want DRC, but we will see what the market offers. There wre rumblings about the Niners possibly signing Steve Smith as well. We'll see.

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Oh yeah, that wasn't for the money. Nope, not at all. Because anyone with half a brain would much rather be catching passes from Geno Smith than Peyton manning.

Well, for one, it's not really up to me on Browner ... yeah, i agree that he was helped by the presence of Sherman and the safeties of that secondary but think that's what the Pats may be trying to recreate at NE (guess that drubbing of Manning in the Sb must have left a lasting impression in BB's mind). Browner without Revis would have been a desperate call that a team like Cowboys you'd expect to make, with Revis already on, however, I think that would be a diff story. And there is also McCorty to play the role of Thomas. Would just need a proper SS (draft) to emulate the physicality of the Seattle secondary, for which the Pats simply don't have the players on the roster right now. Also, they may be interested in Browner as an option at SS, given his physique. Either way, at this point, it's just a visit.

As for DRC to the Pats, that would be swell but with revis on a 1-year deal (12 mil cap hit this year) they don't have the cap room for another relatively big investment at CB. With the way the market has gone and the good year DRC had last season, I doubt he's have much trouble finding a 3-4 year deal, worth 8-9 mil a pop. That's just out of the question for the Pats now and if they were to bring in another CB (seems they are looking for the big, physical kind) it would have to be a player whose market value is low i.e. some off-field issues or is on the decline (A. Chromartie). And not many Cbs out there who fit the profile, hence why Browner is being looked at.

As for the 9ers, they don't seem to have too many needs for vet free agents outside of CB and can fill their other needs from the draft. So, 17 mil should be enough to get you one big money CB (Brown, DRC) and possibly a cheaper vet like A Crow ... and then ensure the future with the draft.
I hope to see Steve Smith with the Pats; not sure the 9ers need him after bringing Boldin back but guess if the price is right, won't hurt..

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Decker to Jets.

good thing he didn't go to the Colts 'cause that would have made them an even bigger player in AFC.
I can watch Geno forcing throws to Decker with Revis covering all day long. Only thing I'd have to worry about would be the popcorn.