Alvaro Morata (68 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

The fact is that, perhaps, someone expected US (that, as you should know, are not big in money) to go to the European Champions and best and richest club in the world, fresh of silverware, to go there, pick up their best young homegrown talent, and Marotta to gangsta dictate our own rules. Yeah, nice story, but then there's reality.

Morata was a great chance for us, we need depth and freshness in attack and he's a right choice. Even if he's staying here just for 2 years, it is a great deal indeed, given that we are sure to receive 30M.

And someone forgets an important factor, doing bad their calculations.

The 20M payment is done in three years. Given that we'll pay the same amount in every installment, after two year we'll have payed more or less 12 milions, giving us a profit of 18 milions, more than the double, if they want to activate this re-buy option.

So, overall, IF this re-buy is activated, we'll have loaned Morata for 2 years (and he'll have done great things for us, if not he wouldn't be bought back) and being payed 18 millions for it. If we want to give for good that Morata will be happy to return at Madrid (hmm...) and that they won't be following the next shiny trending "big thang" instead of him.

But yeah, it is indeed, a bad deal.

huh? we will pay the 20 mil for him whether he leaves next year or in 2, this deal sucks because juventus takes all the risk and would reap just part of the reward. While madrid has a win win, either they just pocket the 20, or get themselves a potentially elite forward for 10-15 mil.

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I like the Morata signing, but if he beats the odds and becomes world class, then we have resigned ourselves to a cheap transfer. Remember, Real can pay whatever for anything. It works both ways.

it's pure negotiation from a point fo weakness, kinda ironic since 'we' are intransigent when it comes to bidding wars.

 

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[K.O.]

huh? we will pay the 20 mil for him whether he leaves next year or in 2, this deal sucks because juventus takes all the risk and would reap just part of the reward. While madrid has a win win, either they just pocket the 20, or get themselves a potentially elite forward for 10-15 mil.

In Real Madrid, no one is familiar with this phrase. Potentially elite together with forward?

 

[ZoSo]

wincest

@ZoSo

@Lion

 

[GordoDeCentral]

In Real Madrid, no one is familiar with this phrase. Potentially elite together with forward?

they dont need to, the "potentially" here is to cover the possibility of him becoming one by then.

 

[PedroFlu]

The fact is that, perhaps, someone expected US (that, as you should know, are not big in money) to go to the European Champions and best and richest club in the world, fresh of silverware, to go there, pick up their best young homegrown talent, and Marotta to gangsta dictate our own rules. Yeah, nice story, but then there's reality.

Morata was a great chance for us, we need depth and freshness in attack and he's a right choice. Even if he's staying here just for 2 years, it is a great deal indeed, given that we are sure to receive 30M.

And someone forgets an important factor, doing bad their calculations.

The 20M payment is done in three years. Given that we'll pay the same amount in every installment, after two year we'll have payed more or less 12 milions, giving us a profit of 18 milions, more than the double, if they want to activate this re-buy option.

So, overall, IF this re-buy is activated, we'll have loaned Morata for 2 years (and he'll have done great things for us, if not he wouldn't be bought back) and being payed 18 millions for it. If we want to give for good that Morata will be happy to return at Madrid (hmm...) and that they won't be following the next shiny trending "big thang" instead of him.

But yeah, it is indeed, a bad deal.

whaaaaat? sorry but this is one of the funniest thinks I've read in this forum

anyways he was overpriced obviously but the potential seems to be there. Let's hope it works.

 

[Cronios]

Question:

How come selling Giovinco's half and later buying it back for 7m eur more was considered bad deal for Juve, while selling Morata for 20 with the possibility to buy him back for 30 is considered a great deal for Real.

If we now sell Berardi for 20m eur with possibility to buy him back in 2 years for 30m eur, will that be considered a great deal for Juve or will you bitches complain that we'll pay 10m eur for our own player?

Because we valued Giovinco's as a 6mil player, when we gave away his half for only 3mil,
yet when we got him back we valued him as a 24mil since his half was worth of 12mil, there was no kind of clause to save us from Parma overvaluing him.
In the mean time, we gave Parma the right to keep him for two years, without having the right to buy him back (first year, the loan, second year the option to keep him and buy his half)
Giovinco was our player and the loan was supposed to be in our terms, but that was the ownage of the decade!!!
And some MArotta apologists here tried to excuse him, by claiming that no team would accept to loan a player and invest on him, if the terms were not favorable to them.
So here we are now ready to invest time to Morata's services, as he is now unproven, we are ready to throw in quite a huge ammount 20mil to an unproven player
and we have accepted that Real has at any moment of the next three years the option to buy him back for 30mil, a moderate ammount, if he delivers the promise he is showing and peanuts for a club that makes 100mil transfers.

In Giovinco's case we undervalued the player when we gave up his half for loan, with minimal risk for them
and also let the team that will benefit of his services to choose if they want to keep him for another year without our consent and then let them ask an arm and a leg to get him, accepting that his price has raised at 400%, from 6mil to 24mil.
In Morata case we have accepted to give a high fee for an unproven player,taking quite a risk, dont have the option to keep him during his "loan" time, as Real can get him anytime they need him, up untill the end of 2016/17 season and only accept a +30% price tag value after three years, when he will be proven.

From Parma to Real, twice in summer transfer windows for Fiorentina and Udine, everybody knows that they can take advantage of our incompetence in the transfer market.
When we buy we overpay, when we sell, we sell off...when we loan, we are getting robbed and in the mean time, we are bleeding cash in wages of players that dont contribute and await for their last year before their contract expires to release them and give them an extra bonus to do so, just to release the wage slot!

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Because we valued Giovinco's as a 6mil player, when we gave away his half for only 3mil,
yet when we got him back we valued him as a 24mil since his half was worth of 12mil, there was no kind of clause to save us from Parma overvaluing him.
In the mean time, we gave Parma the right to keep him for two years, without having the right to buy him back (first year, the loan, second year the option to keep him and buy his half)
Giovinco was our player and the loan was supposed to be in our terms, but that was the ownage of the decade!!!
And some MArotta apologists here tried to excuse him, by claiming that no team would accept to loan a player and invest on him, if the terms were not favorable to them.
So here we are now ready to invest time to Morata's services, as he is now unproven, we are ready to throw in quite a huge ammount 20mil to an unproven player
and we have accepted that Real has at any moment of the next three years the option to buy him back for 30mil, a moderate ammount, if he delivers the promise he is showing and peanuts for a club that makes 100mil transfers.

In Giovinco's case we undervalued the player when we gave up his half for loan, with minimal risk for them
and also let the team that will benefit of his services to choose if they want to keep him for another year without our consent and then let them ask an arm and a leg to get him, accepting that his price has raised at 400%, from 6mil to 24mil.
In Morata case we have accepted to give a high fee for an unproven player,taking quite a risk, dont have the option to keep him during his "loan" time, as Real can get him anytime they need him, up untill the end of 2016/17 season and only accept a +30% price tag value after three years, when he will be proven.

From Parma to Real, twice in summer transfer windows for Fiorentina and Udine, everybody knows that they can take advantage of our incompetence in the transfer market.
When we buy we overpay, when we sell, we sell off...when we loan, we are getting robbed and in the mean time, we pay wages in players that dont contribute and await for their last year before their contract expires to release them and give them an extra bonus!

cant believe i am saying this, but really bravo @Cronios id like to add a couple of things:

1. we are not parma, in the sense we are not a selling club, and dont
2. parma co-owned the player, sharing in the risk, not taking it all
3. parma had the good sense of not plateauing their returns

all in all, the parma deal and ours have 0 in common when it comes to risk/reward

 

[ZoSo]

Because we valued Giovinco's as a 6mil player, when we gave away his half for only 3mil,
yet when we got him back we valued him as a 24mil since his half was worth of 12mil, there was no kind of clause to save us from Parma overvaluing him.
In the mean time, we gave Parma the right to keep him for two years, without having the right to buy him back (first year, the loan, second year the option to keep him and buy his half)
Giovinco was our player and the loan was supposed to be in our terms, but that was the ownage of the decade!!!
And some MArotta apologists here tried to excuse him, by claiming that no team would accept to loan a player and invest on him, if the terms were not favorable to them.
So here we are now ready to invest time to Morata's services, as he is now unproven, we are ready to throw in quite a huge ammount 20mil to an unproven player
and we have accepted that Real has at any moment of the next three years the option to buy him back for 30mil, a moderate ammount, if he delivers the promise he is showing and peanuts for a club that makes 100mil transfers.

In Giovinco's case we undervalued the player when we gave up his half for loan, with minimal risk for them
and also let the team that will benefit of his services to choose if they want to keep him for another year without our consent and then let them ask an arm and a leg to get him, accepting that his price has raised at 400%, from 6mil to 24mil.
In Morata case we have accepted to give a high fee for an unproven player,taking quite a risk, dont have the option to keep him during his "loan" time, as Real can get him anytime they need him, up untill the end of 2016/17 season and only accept a +30% price tag value after three years, when he will be proven.

From Parma to Real, twice in summer transfer windows for Fiorentina and Udine, everybody knows that they can take advantage of our incompetence in the transfer market.
When we buy we overpay, when we sell, we sell off...when we loan, we are getting robbed and in the mean time, we are bleeding cash in wages of players that dont contribute and await for their last year before their contract expires to release them and give them an extra bonus to do so, just to release the wage slot!

great post. it really will be a horrible thing to see if morata turns to be a very good player and madrid only makes 10m net loss on him when they usually pay like double the amount for such a player

 

[acmilan]

only thing I am curious to see is if this bend-over of a deal was just a one-time Marotta special or actually a sign of things to come for all of Serie A.

 

[ALC]

Cronios

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only thing I am curious to see is if this bend-over of a deal was just a one-time Marotta special or actually a sign of things to come for all of Serie A.

Good point. It's like a co-ownership workaround type of deal.

 

[acmilan]

Cronios

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Good point. It's like a co-ownership workaround type of deal.

with the end of all that co-own circus, it may well be time for "big" Italian teams to reinvent themselves - those who were doing the pushing may have to learn to assume the position themselves. Talk about adjusting to new realities by changing careers

 

[ALC]

with the end of all that co-own circus, it may well be time for "big" Italian teams to reinvent themselves - those who were doing the pushing may have to learn to assume the position themselves. Talk about adjusting to new realities by changing careers

I was thinking more in terms of us doing this to teams like Lecce and Bari but yeah, a major revolution is needed to prevent the position change scenario.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Question:

How come selling Giovinco's half and later buying it back for 7m eur more was considered bad deal for Juve, while selling Morata for 20 with the possibility to buy him back for 30 is considered a great deal for Real.

If we now sell Berardi for 20m eur with possibility to buy him back in 2 years for 30m eur, will that be considered a great deal for Juve or will you bitches complain that we'll pay 10m eur for our own player?

Answer: WE ARE JUVENTUS

 

[JCK]

WOW, I find myself agreeing with Cronios, what has the world come to?


But really that post with us making 18 M€ profit on Morata? Seriously? Some people are really aliens with simple mathematics.

 

[ZoSo]

that is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. that guy clearly has no clue of anything if he thinks that if real madrid buy him back in the second year we only pay part of the 20m fee

 

[JCK]

I understood so much from his post but at first refused that he really believes in it. Then afterwards I read a bunch of sheep cheering for him and his great post and wondered if there was something I misunderstood. I started to feel stupid until I read what X has replied. It was like a huge breath of relief, I felt fresh, smart and all doubts of stupidity disasppeared. Actually they did not disappear they were directly projected towards that post ten fold.

Ok, we pay two thirds of 20 M€, Real wants back, they pay 30 M€ and we ignore paying back the amount we are supposed to pay, if they ask us for the money, we simply tell them "what player? Morata is yours"

 

[Xperd]

whaaaaat? sorry but this is one of the funniest thinks I've read in this forum

anyways he was overpriced obviously but the potential seems to be there. Let's hope it works.

Indeed it was ,and very ignorant too.

 

[waschbeer]

Both transactions deserve to be criticised, but not for what you said.

The criticism is on the fact that we overpayed for both players, as simple as that.

We bought Giovinco's half back for 11M, meaning he was valued 22M. Obviously overvalued.

Then we payed 20M for a kid who didn't play 1000 minutes for Madrid last season. It's less than 10 complete games. Great potential, very interesting skills, but highly unproven. I mean, Iturbe played a full season as a starter, it's pretty different. Even though Roma also overpayed for him.

I like Morata's potential a lot. But this does not takes back the fact that yes, we overpaid for him, and yes, we overpaid fo Giovinco. History proved this assessment of Giovinco's deal is completely correct. Let's see about Morata. Really hope he's worth it. But at the moment I consider 20M an over evaluation.

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People say that it's unlikely Madrid will want him back because they only go for the best.

But this is short sighted IMO. Madrid brought back Arbeloa, Callejon (a few years ago), now they want Negredo back, all for a very clear reason. They want solid rotation players/backups who are home grown and can be registred for Champions League.

It's no coincidence they are going for Negredo now.

I'm pretty sure they only let Morata go because he really wanted to leave.

I'm positive that in 2 years, if the kid does well, they will want to pay the 30M so he can be a great homegrown backup for whom they spent 10M for some team to develop.

Our great chance though lies on the fact that the kid really seem to be high on Juve. He seems to be ambitious, and seems to be the kind of guy who prefers to be very important in a top team than a backup in probably the biggest team of the world. I think that's what Marotta is thinking, about the kid's wish. And Madrid won't pay 30M if Morata doesn't want to go back.

But I believe the chances Madrid will push for him are very high, as long he confirms his potential. Then it will be up to him to go back or not. If he turns out to be really GREAT and actually stand a real chance to fight for a starting position at Madrid, I guess he'll go back.

good post. exactly my thoughts on these deals.

With the end of co-owns, I think we will see a lot of deals with buyback options in the future. I hate co-owns but at the same time I have the fear that the buyback deals will strain Juve even more.
For a potentially good player I would have no problem to pay 1-2 mil/year + the cost of wages to the "loaning team" for developing him. But when you take udinese e.g. they make at least +10mil profit for good players, with potentially world class players like sanchez even more. I don´t wanna know how much they paid for asamoah or isla. I think that the feeder clubs at least want a 100% return and of course an obligation for the buyback clause, which will be very expensive if the valuation of the player is also very high.

Of course I hope it will benefit Juve, as they were for the abolition of co-owns, but I really have doubts.

I understood so much from his post but at first refused that he really believes in it. Then afterwards I read a bunch of sheep cheering for him and his great post and wondered if there was something I misunderstood. I started to feel stupid until I read what X has replied. It was like a huge breath of relief, I felt fresh, smart and all doubts of stupidity disasppeared. Actually they did not disappear they were directly projected towards that post ten fold.

Ok, we pay two thirds of 20 M€, Real wants back, they pay 30 M€ and we ignore paying back the amount we are supposed to pay, if they ask us for the money, we simply tell them "what player? Morata is yours"

lol after all the approvals I also thought am I really this dumb and had to read his post again. I think what he meant is that in case they buy him back after the 2 years juve would indeed make a profit of 18 mil for the 15/16 budget but he forget to mention that one year later juve would have to pay the remaining 8 mil and make a loss for 16/17 budget , so that the overall profit would be 10 mil. It can be a little advantage for the 15/16 transfer mercato because more cash would be ready, but effective it would be like a loan we got from madrid with no interests for one year.
But like I said this "advantage" would only be valid if they buy him back in 2016.

 

[Akshen]

Why dont you make a poll regarding his first season with us similiar to Llorente's?

 

[Maddy]

Well, if we see a huge inflation in the Euro-zone we might end up earning a euro or two more than expected

Beppe, the financial wizard of Varese