Abortion, good or bad? (6 Viewers)

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
What a disgusting attitude you show there, Gray. Now I noticed you're not a girl. What about they boy? It hardly seems fair she has to take all the blame. "

I'm not saying that a girl has to take all the blame. But she knows full well that she is going to be the one who will wind up pregnant. It's not like they toss a coin and the 'loser' has to carry the baby... she knew the risks and made her decision...

Besides, it takes two to tango.

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
Just a precaution", please, it works in 99 percent of the cases, most people are pretty confident that the precaution is going to do its job. You shouldn't be punished because it didn't.

So whose fault is it? Durex?

"You shouldn't be punished" ??

Since when was pregnancy a punishment? It may be inconvenient or untimely for the woman, but to blame a broken condom and cry "woe is me" because you became pregnant after sex is like the fisherman who blames his hook for dropping the bait.

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
I imagine you're against sex before marriage overall then.

That's correct, and the posts in this thread show a very good reason for that.

Read for yourself; even those who aren't against sex before marriage have concurred that a pregnancy outside of a mutually supportive marriage can be considered a burden.

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
In which century do you live?

So my viewpoint isn't "in fashion"; does that discredit my opinion?

If "Murder with good reason" became legal, would you point and laugh at someone who disagreed with said law?

So I don't live to please the crowd... what are you going to do? Chop off my legs, crush my skull with forceps and pull me out of my mother's womb? Sorry buddy, too late.

 

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[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

I'm not saying that a girl has to take all the blame. But she knows full well that she is going to be the one who will wind up pregnant. It's not like they toss a coin and the 'loser' has to carry the baby... she knew the risks and made her decision...

Besides, it takes two to tango.

Please, like most guys wouldn't run away.

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
So whose fault is it? Durex?

"You shouldn't be punished" ??


Since when was pregnancy a punishment? It may be inconvenient or untimely for the woman, but to blame a broken condom and cry "woe is me" because you became pregnant after sex is like the fisherman who blames his hook for dropping the bait.

blablabla, pregnancy can be a punishment, gray. Don't act like we should all thank God for everything that happens to us. Some people don't want those children, hence it feels like a punishment.

Obviously it's their fault, but why should they be punished?

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++





So my viewpoint isn't "in fashion"; does that discredit my opinion?

If "Murder with good reason" became legal, would you point and laugh at someone who disagreed with said law?

So I don't live to please the crowd... what are you going to do? Chop off my legs, crush my skull with forceps and pull me out of my mother's womb? Sorry buddy, too late.

Please, stop using those false analogies. First of all, sex before marriage has always been in fashion. Because it ALWAYS has, it's pretty much clear that's only a biological need to do so.

"Murder with reason" isn't the same thing at all, gray, and you know it.

So your legs are chopped off, you skull is crushed and you're pulled out of your mother's womb?

 

[Gino Genesio]

i am not againts aborstion.
i am not gowing to tell details but my mom also did an aborstion and shé feeled really sad shé cryed for weeks but it was the only thing shé could do.
and i dont hate my mom for dowing this

 

[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by fabiana ] ++


Is it fair to take away a life because a condom split?

Is it fair to destroy one?

 

[Daddi]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
Please, like most guys wouldn't run away.

What's your point? We were talking about the party that bears the most consequence for sex, and that's been consistent since the beginning of time.

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
blablabla, pregnancy can be a punishment, gray. Don't act like we should all thank God for everything that happens to us. Some people don't want those children, hence it feels like a punishment.

My point wasn't the value of a child's life; what I'm saying is that one can't simply look at pregnancy and say "Why am I being punished just because of a broken condom?", when (in light of the purpose of sex in the first place) the consequences are clear-cut.

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
Please, stop using those false analogies. First of all, sex before marriage has always been in fashion. Because it ALWAYS has, it's pretty much clear that's only a biological need to do so.

"Please, like most guys wouldn't run away."

Are you telling me that it's generally biologically beneficial for a child to be born in the face of a high likelihood that it will be unwanted, or that its father would run away? That's a very interesting conclusion you've made there.

 

[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


Are you telling me that it's generally biologically beneficial for a child to be born in the face of a high likelihood that it will be unwanted, or that its father would run away? That's a very interesting conclusion you've made there.

That's a strange conclusion you made there, for circumstances were different thousands of years ago than they are now.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

What's your point? We were talking about the party that bears the most consequence for sex, and that's been consistent since the beginning of time.

Being the one that bares the most consequence for sex, shouldn't the mother be the one that has the right to decide?

Seriously, I cant believe men are trying to tell women what to do when they never have and never will have to be in that situation, nor will they understand it.

 

[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++



Being the one that bares the most consequence for sex, shouldn't the mother be the one that has the right to decide?

Seriously, I cant believe men are trying to tell women what to do when they never have and never will have to be in that situation, nor will they understand it.

Exactly. I can't believe Gray's attitude towards this. So catholic.. is he catholic? It's simply appalling that one still thinks that way in this century.



So, anyone against euthanasia and gay marriages? Or spilled semen? Yes, gray, we should seriously stop people from masturbating.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by David Del Piero ] ++
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

Hmmm, I think I see where you are coming from, you make some veeeeery convincing arguments...

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
That's a strange conclusion you made there, for circumstances were different thousands of years ago than they are now.

Pray tell, what were circumstances like thousands of years ago?

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
Being the one that bares the most consequence for sex, shouldn't the mother be the one that has the right to decide?

The mother is the one who decides whether she goes through with the pregnancy or not.... what's the problem?

We're not talking about who "gets to" make the decision, I was saying that a woman shouldn't be pointing fingers at a male when she categorically knew the consequences of having sex in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every woman who accidentally gets pregnant should just smile and nod and look on the bright side of it.

Of course it's a difficult-as-hell situation to be in! I don't pretend to empathise with a woman in such a situation, nor am I saying that abortion is an easy way out, because in most cases it leaves emotional scars and trauma. I'm not saying that a woman who has an unplanned pregnancy should be scolded and shunned for not being more careful....

All I'm saying is that people need to face the consequences for their actions, whether they're having sex (protected or not), or urinating on electric fences.

 

[gray]

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
Exactly. I can't believe Gray's attitude towards this. So catholic.. is he catholic?

I'm a Christian.

What does "so Catholic" mean anyway?

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
It's simply appalling that one still thinks that way in this century.

What's so appalling? That I'm against the termination of life (as I see it) in the event of an unplanned pregnancy?

You seem to enjoy emphasising the century that we live in, as if the general trend or attitudes of the people in a time period dictate what's right and wrong. You also seem to think that the values of a certain culture or society are absolute and universal truths. I'm afraid you're wrong on both counts...

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
So, anyone against euthanasia and gay marriages? Or spilled semen? Yes, gray, we should seriously stop people from masturbating.

At least read my posts before you make assumptions about my viewpoints. I don't see the need for condescending comments, because I don't think I've made any in your direction. If you feel that I have, then I apologise.

 

[mikhail]

Acies, your atitude towards Gray's religion and beliefs is shockingly ignorant. Dare I say, even backward. I've debated many issues with him and I don't doubt that he's thoroughly thought out his beliefs. He'll back them all with rational argument far more convincing than "so catholic". You'd do well to do the same.

While we're here, the following is from the rules:

3. Mutual respect
The key aspect of successful interaction in a community comprising any set of members is respect. All participants, Juve fans or not, want to be respected, regardless of their heritage, geographical location, age, gender, financial situation, political background and culture. That kind of mutual respect is exactly what we wish to achieve. Therefore we ask you to respect other posters, recognize that your point-of-view is not the only possible one, and encourage them to participate in the forums. That way your position will be respected and others will feel comfortable as well.

 

[Zlatan]

++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++


All I'm saying is that people need to face the consequences for their actions, whether they're having sex (protected or not), or urinating on electric fences.

Thats an incredibly bad comparation. If the woman uses protection and does everthing possible, bar abstainig from sex, and still gets pregnant, I think she should have the right to chose to have abortion. Even so, even if the woman does nothing to stop from getting pregnant, I believe it's her choice to have an abortion, as the fetus is effectivly a part of her body.

 

[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++
Acies, your atitude towards Gray's religion and beliefs is shockingly ignorant. Dare I say, even backward. I've debated many issues with him and I don't doubt that he's thoroughly thought out his beliefs. He'll back them all with rational argument far more convincing than "so catholic". You'd do well to do the same.

While we're here, the following is from the rules:

Oh please, why would it be ignorant? I know exactly why Gray is against abortion and I'm also fully aware that his opinion is pretty much indoctrinated. Definitely when the origin of his belief is christian.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
Thats an incredibly bad comparation.

True.

If the woman uses protection and does everthing possible, bar abstainig from sex, and still gets pregnant, I think she should have the right to chose to have abortion. Even so, even if the woman does nothing to stop from getting pregnant, I believe it's her choice to have an abortion, as the fetus is effectivly a part of her body.

Ah, the convenience argument. Frankly, if it's wrong to abort, then it's wrong to abort. The intentions of the mother prior to conception should have no bearing on it. Of course, the whole issue hangs on whether the fetus is a human life with the associated rights (which are not negotiable, regardless of its dependancy on its mother) or merely a part of the mother's body, which she is free to hack off at will. While my opinion on the matter coloured how I phrased that, you made the far bigger boo-boo of assuming what you intended to prove - invalidating your argument!

 

[Chxta]

Ahhh, yes Zlatan has come to remind me of my own misdeeds. Fucking great.

Zla-baby, this topic is about abortion, not about me.

The fact remains that abortion is wrong.

 

[mikhail]

++ [ originally posted by Acies ] ++
Oh please, why would it be ignorant? I know exactly why Gray is against abortion and I'm also fully aware that his opinion is pretty much indoctrinated. Definitely when the origin of his belief is christian.

It would be so because his beliefs, regardless of their origin, are his own. If you insist on mocking them, rather than arguing logically, you aren't debating anything - rather amusing in the face of your argument that Gray's (rather well thought out) position on the subject is "indoctrinated".

 

[Acies]

++ [ originally posted by mikhail ] ++

It would be so because his beliefs, regardless of their origin, are his own. If you insist on mocking them, rather than arguing logically, you aren't debating anything - rather amusing in the face of your argument that Gray's (rather well thought out) position on the subject is "indoctrinated".

Please. It's nice to have a well thought out argument when people think for you. Whether or not it's well thought out doesn't mean it can't be indoctrinated.

 

[Nicole]

I have to say, I have pretty much agreed with everything that Acies and Zlatan have said...

I have a newfound respect for Zlatan