Abortion, good or bad? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Chxta
- Start date
Don't pick on my words; I didn't mean that we should talk in abstract terms, but simply that we shouldn't bring the discussion down to the level of "God made dirt, so you shouldn't step on it".
We're not just talking about taking a morning-after pill here, because people have abortions weeks and even months after the point of conception. At 6 weeks old, a human fetus has a heartbeat and its brain is already generating waves; at 8 weeks, it has developed fingers and toes. For me, that's human life.
No it's not murder, because the body continually reproduces sperm and 'wastes' it through nocturnal emissions anyway. On the other hand, a woman's body doesn't naturally produce fetuses (correct me if I've got the plural form wrong) for her to deal with as she pleases.
We're not just talking about taking a morning-after pill here, because people have abortions weeks and even months after the point of conception. At 6 weeks old, a human fetus has a heartbeat and its brain is already generating waves; at 8 weeks, it has developed fingers and toes. For me, that's human life.
No it's not murder, because the body continually reproduces sperm and 'wastes' it through nocturnal emissions anyway. On the other hand, a woman's body doesn't naturally produce fetuses (correct me if I've got the plural form wrong) for her to deal with as she pleases.
Weeks One through Four
* Ovulation occurs - The time is right; now you just need this egg to be fertilized!
* Conception occurs - Did you know that during your pregnancy that your uterus will increase its capacity by 1000 times?!
* Gender is determined - Immediately upon fertilization your little one is set as a boy or a girl. Ladies, this is one that you can't take credit for since it is up to the sperm to determine the sex of your baby. Sperm carries either a "X" (girl) chromosome or a "Y" (boy) chromosome. (*Hint:* You will have to hold off on picking out the pink or blue until at least the second trimester when the gender will be visible via ultrasound.)
* Implantation - Some spotting (also known as implantation bleeding) may occur about 10 - 14 days after conception. You may believe you are starting your period but generally this bleeding is extremely light and lasts only a day or so.
* Neural tube forms - It will develop into the nervous system (Brain, spinal cord, hair, and skin). Already your baby has the foundation for thought, senses, feeling, and more!
* Heart and primitive circulatory system rapidly form - While still in its beginning stages, this is the very life support system that will carry your child throughout his or her life.
Week Five
* First heartbeats begin - If you have an early ultrasound you may not be able to recognize this tiny being as a baby, but there is no mistaking what it feels like seeing your child's heartbeat on that screen. That rhythmic beat is echoed in your own heart.
* Umbilical cord develops - This is your baby's lifeline in utero. It bears the responsibility of pumping in oxygen, removing waste, and supplying the necessary nutrients for the remainder of your pregnancy.
* Blood is now pumping - All four heart chambers are now functioning, insuring your baby's body will receive all it needs over not only the remainder of your pregnancy but throughout life.
* Most other organs begin to develop - Your infant's lungs start to appear, along with her brain. Already your little one is preparing for a quest for lifelong learning!
* Arm and leg buds appear - While they may not appear to be much at this stage it is ok to dream of the future. Just imagine your ballerina twirling and jumping around your kitchen floor. Or perhaps you will have the precocious boy that throws the perfect pitch -- right through the neighbor's window.
Unless you get the morning after pill, by the time you find out youre pregnant there will be heartbeat already. If the heart is beating isnt it life?
http://www.nrlc.org/Killing_Embryos/Hatch-Feinsteinrelease020503.html
Read through the text and you'll see that an embryo is indeed alive.
Read through the text and you'll see that an embryo is indeed alive.
You think it wont happen? I know of a girl that got an abortion (ilegally, here in America) and like a month after she got it she was scared because she might be pregnant again. Not everyone has the same education/morals you have and if abortion is legalized it will be up to them to decide wether to get it or not -of course that will happen
++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++
This isn't a stab at you personally Nicole, but that could well be the most ludicrous thing I've heard...
Not being able to 'cancel' another human's life is unfair?!
This isn't a stab at you personally Nicole, but that could well be the most ludicrous thing I've heard...
Not being able to 'cancel' another human's life is unfair?!
It was never my intention to pick on your words, sorry for the misinterpretation.
Weeks after the conception it's still just an embryo. Though I get your point. I also agree that is life then, it does not have a conscious or any feeling or instincts though. So to me, it is debatable wether it's already life or not.
Yet I still am not against abortion.
Though I think it should be (kept) legal, I'm not of the opinion that one should always be allowed(after that 6 week time-span) to commit abortion. One must have a good reason for the abortion.
Weeks after the conception it's still just an embryo. Though I get your point. I also agree that is life then, it does not have a conscious or any feeling or instincts though. So to me, it is debatable wether it's already life or not.
Yet I still am not against abortion.
Though I think it should be (kept) legal, I'm not of the opinion that one should always be allowed(after that 6 week time-span) to commit abortion. One must have a good reason for the abortion.
Can I give you an example, a mate of mine got pregnant, he is about 8 months now, she is a smart girl, just was unlucky, it wasnt planned, her boyfriend who was 23 has left her, she is 18. She had to drop out of college (failed the course) and now that college wont take her back (some policy bullshit), I dont know if she is going to keep it or give it for adoption, but even so, but having it, she failed a course she could of easily completed AND wont be accepted by the ONLY college on this island...now tell me, is that fair?
No problem, as long as you meant no harm in it.
Actually you're incorrect in saying that a fetus has no feeling or instincts. CRT scans have shown fetuses sucking their thumbs, reacting to a doctor pushing on the mother's abdomen, and reacting to the acidity of orange juice when drunk by its mother.
Anyway, does conscious thought need to be present for a human to be considered alive?
Here's a far-fetched example, if you'll bear with me...If you kill someone in their sleep, of course it's murder, right? Why? Because even though they had no conscious thought at the time, they would have woken up from their sleep to go on and live their lives.
What makes an unborn baby any different? You may argue that it never had feelings in the first place, but does that justify its termination?
Let me try something a bit far-fetched again...
Let's say you're a doctor who has been asked to perform an abortion on a woman. Where would you draw the line whether she should be allowed to have the abortion?
If the woman was 5 weeks and 6 days into her pregnancy and you were sitting next to her operating table with your tools of destruction in your hands, would you consider it any worse to perform the abortion at the stroke of midnight?
Again, I'm not trying to be technical here... my point is, where do you draw the line?
Actually you're incorrect in saying that a fetus has no feeling or instincts. CRT scans have shown fetuses sucking their thumbs, reacting to a doctor pushing on the mother's abdomen, and reacting to the acidity of orange juice when drunk by its mother.
Anyway, does conscious thought need to be present for a human to be considered alive?
Here's a far-fetched example, if you'll bear with me...If you kill someone in their sleep, of course it's murder, right? Why? Because even though they had no conscious thought at the time, they would have woken up from their sleep to go on and live their lives.
What makes an unborn baby any different? You may argue that it never had feelings in the first place, but does that justify its termination?
Let me try something a bit far-fetched again...
Let's say you're a doctor who has been asked to perform an abortion on a woman. Where would you draw the line whether she should be allowed to have the abortion?
If the woman was 5 weeks and 6 days into her pregnancy and you were sitting next to her operating table with your tools of destruction in your hands, would you consider it any worse to perform the abortion at the stroke of midnight?
Again, I'm not trying to be technical here... my point is, where do you draw the line?
"It wasn't planned"...
A lot of things in life aren't planned, Nicole, but everyone on the planet knows that they have to deal with the consequences of their actions (not to call pregnancy a consequence).
She took a precaution, but even in doing so, she knew it was just that: a precaution. As they say, the best form of contraception is abstinence.
As for your question of fairness, I think yes, it is fair. It's tough on her and a bit unfortunate, but to call it unfair is plain irresponsible.
A lot of things in life aren't planned, Nicole, but everyone on the planet knows that they have to deal with the consequences of their actions (not to call pregnancy a consequence).
She took a precaution, but even in doing so, she knew it was just that: a precaution. As they say, the best form of contraception is abstinence.
As for your question of fairness, I think yes, it is fair. It's tough on her and a bit unfortunate, but to call it unfair is plain irresponsible.
What a disgusting attitude you show there, Gray. Now I noticed you're not a girl. What about they boy? It hardly seems fair she has to take all the blame. "Just a precaution", please, it works in 99 percent of the cases, most people are pretty confident that the precaution is going to do its job. You shouldn't be punished because it didn't. I imagine you're against sex before marriage overall then. In which century do you live?
Well, good for you. Too bad it isn't your decision to make. Women are the ones actually carrying the fetus and giving birth to the new life, and as such, while the fetus is inside them it is part of their body, and I firmly believe in a woman's right to chose her own destiny. To chose if she wants to give birth, give the baby up for adoption or have an abortion. Every unwanted pregnancy is a very complex decision, and it isn't as easy as saying "it's murder, I'm against it." Everybody is talking about the baby's life, but the mother, or both parents, also have a life, and unwanted pregnancies or pregnacies of babies with deformations or genetic diseases, largely affect the quality of life, and I personaly think that the parents life should have more priority than the life of an unborn fetus. The parents also have a life to chose the way they want to live, and if they think it's in their best interest not to have a child, than fine, it's their choice and I don't think the rest of us should have anything to do with it.
Here I am
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++
Stop insulting and give cogent reasons. Abortion is murder plain and simple...
The only time it is justified IMO is when it's done to save the life of the mother!
Stop insulting and give cogent reasons. Abortion is murder plain and simple...
The only time it is justified IMO is when it's done to save the life of the mother!
The child has a right to live when it is born, but until it is, I also think the parents have a right to live normally.
Really? So, what you are saying is that when SOMEONE does something wrong, THEY should bare the consequences of their actions, especially if THEY took an innocent life?
Again, here you go with the consequences.
++ [ originally posted by chxta ] ++
When I was a teenager?
People should be told the potential of such mistakes before they make them, and when they make them, they kive with them.
Abortion is one of those easy ways out of problems. And when people get used to finding the easy way out all the time, they,... well they get used to finding the easy way out. And that is not how life is.
When I was a teenager?
People should be told the potential of such mistakes before they make them, and when they make them, they kive with them.
Abortion is one of those easy ways out of problems. And when people get used to finding the easy way out all the time, they,... well they get used to finding the easy way out. And that is not how life is.
Riiight...
Thats not true Fabiana, and you know it. Abortion isn't very pleasant for the mother either, and people in countries where abortion is legalised don't take it as lightly as you think.
And BTW, chxta, please stop with these threads, you're the last one who should try to act morally superior.
That's my wrong then, did not have that knowlegde on the subject.
Strong example and point. It does not justify it's termination, hence me writing earlier that one needs to have a good reason.
I don't completely see what you're trying to say with this example, but does it have to do with the time of the pregnancy? If you'd draw a line on a specified time into the pregancy to perform the abortion, would it really be different two hours before the deadline? Is that what you're trying to say?
That's up to the qualified appointee's.
Strong example and point. It does not justify it's termination, hence me writing earlier that one needs to have a good reason.
I don't completely see what you're trying to say with this example, but does it have to do with the time of the pregnancy? If you'd draw a line on a specified time into the pregancy to perform the abortion, would it really be different two hours before the deadline? Is that what you're trying to say?
That's up to the qualified appointee's.