Able Xavier Converts to Islam (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ventus
- Start date
- Status
Cruel and homicidal? what tradition? Not everything can be expressed in a strictly logical manner in this subject, and i accepted that long ago. God and religion to a lesser extent are to be experienced on a personal level, not by proxy. Meaning you take an objective look at your life and those things you saw and experienced directly and indirectly. And the mercy lies in the existence thereof of enough proofs and encounters to steer you the way you need to be.
jambone kamen!Nop, In christianity you have to believe in the crucifixion and resurrection story to be saved. In Islam you must believe in that there is no God but Allah. He is one and mohammed is his prophet.. or else you are screwed.
The belief in the dogma is given more weight than the way of living.
And so, even though I could save millions of lives every year like Bill Gates does... Jesus and Allah would throw me in Hell. A man who does the Macarena dance 5 times a day is better in Allah's eyes than a man who saves lives yet doesnt do the dance.
I am not sure what you meant with regards to the word wise.
What i and martin are trying to explain is whether you think God's attributes are like our attributes but with greater intensity OR God's attribute are completely different than anything we know.
In other words, When we say God is mercyful, does mercy in God have the same meaning as mercy is human beings but God's mercy is just more?
Or is God's mercy nothing like what we use the term for? do we use this term to praise god because thats the only way we know how to praise (the way we praise men?)
The belief in the dogma is given more weight than the way of living.
And so, even though I could save millions of lives every year like Bill Gates does... Jesus and Allah would throw me in Hell. A man who does the Macarena dance 5 times a day is better in Allah's eyes than a man who saves lives yet doesnt do the dance.
I am not sure what you meant with regards to the word wise.
What i and martin are trying to explain is whether you think God's attributes are like our attributes but with greater intensity OR God's attribute are completely different than anything we know.
In other words, When we say God is mercyful, does mercy in God have the same meaning as mercy is human beings but God's mercy is just more?
Or is God's mercy nothing like what we use the term for? do we use this term to praise god because thats the only way we know how to praise (the way we praise men?)
there's no belief without outward expression, and no you are wrong though people are encouraged/discouraged from certain beliefs/practices no one can come out and say john doe is going to hell as they dont know, only He knows.
Please try to quote next time you tell us what so and so wants or likes.
As for attributes heres a quick recap by spinoza which should help broaden your view here http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza-attributes/#IdeAttSub
I didn't get anything from that. How about you use your superbrain to put it in terms that make it clearer?
To take an example. The concept of mercy. God is infinitely merciful, yes? This must mean he will forgive everyone for every transgression whatever. Which means anything you do is fine by him.
To take an example. The concept of mercy. God is infinitely merciful, yes? This must mean he will forgive everyone for every transgression whatever. Which means anything you do is fine by him.
the transition here is faulty, one we dont know what infinity is and two we dont know fully the expression of his mercy
theres no superbrain i'm afraid only a recollection of grueling philosophy lessons in highschool but he did express himself in less technical fashion here:
"As to the question of what God, the exemplar of true life, really is, whether he is fire, or spirit, or light, or thought, or something else, this is irrelevant to faith. And so likewise is the question as to why he is the exemplar of true life, whether this is because he has a just and merciful disposition, or because all things exist and act through him and consequently we, too, understand through him, and through him we see what is true, just and good. On these questions it matters not what beliefs a man holds. Nor, again, does it matter for faith whether one believes that God is omnipresent in essence or in potency, whether he directs everything from free will or from the necessity of his nature, whether he lays down laws as a rule or teaches them as being eternal truths, whether man obeys God from free will or from the necessity of the divine decree, whether the rewarding of the good and the punishing of the wicked is natural or supernatural. The view one takes on these and similar questions has no bearing on faith, provided that such a belief does not lead to the assumption of greater license to sin, or hinders submission to God. Indeed … every person is in duty bound to adapt these religious dogmas to his own understanding and to interpret them for himself in whatever way makes him feel that he can the more readily accept them with full confidence and conviction."
for more reading this is not bad, though i didnt read it all
http://www.generation-online.org/p/fpnegri17.htm
theres no superbrain i'm afraid only a recollection of grueling philosophy lessons in highschool but he did express himself in less technical fashion here:
"As to the question of what God, the exemplar of true life, really is, whether he is fire, or spirit, or light, or thought, or something else, this is irrelevant to faith. And so likewise is the question as to why he is the exemplar of true life, whether this is because he has a just and merciful disposition, or because all things exist and act through him and consequently we, too, understand through him, and through him we see what is true, just and good. On these questions it matters not what beliefs a man holds. Nor, again, does it matter for faith whether one believes that God is omnipresent in essence or in potency, whether he directs everything from free will or from the necessity of his nature, whether he lays down laws as a rule or teaches them as being eternal truths, whether man obeys God from free will or from the necessity of the divine decree, whether the rewarding of the good and the punishing of the wicked is natural or supernatural. The view one takes on these and similar questions has no bearing on faith, provided that such a belief does not lead to the assumption of greater license to sin, or hinders submission to God. Indeed … every person is in duty bound to adapt these religious dogmas to his own understanding and to interpret them for himself in whatever way makes him feel that he can the more readily accept them with full confidence and conviction."
for more reading this is not bad, though i didnt read it all
http://www.generation-online.org/p/fpnegri17.htm
But this is nonsense. You don't believe in something unless you know what it is. The guy says what matters is not what you believe in, but that you believe. This is exactly the ridiculous situation, people have no idea what it is they supposedly believe.
Define for me something first, then I will tell you if I'm convinced to believe it.
But returning to the mercy attribute then. So what is the point of saying "god's mercy is infinite" if we don't understand what infinite is? Might as well say "god's mercy is kjadsfjhasd" and it would be just as good.
Define for me something first, then I will tell you if I'm convinced to believe it.
But returning to the mercy attribute then. So what is the point of saying "god's mercy is infinite" if we don't understand what infinite is? Might as well say "god's mercy is kjadsfjhasd" and it would be just as good.
but he actually wrote a whole book about that definition and the attributes 
he's just pointing out in that paragraph that one should not argue those points.
close to 90% of our speech/ideas are speculation, we dont know if guus is coming to juve but we also dont know if the sun is rising tomorrow. Obviously some are stronger that others as illustrated by the 2 examples mentioned, but the strength is relative to how much evidence supports it as with the sun rising tomorrow. Based on the evidence i have come across i have some idea of God's mercy but to go ahead and establish firm description and knowledge no one can.
he's just pointing out in that paragraph that one should not argue those points.close to 90% of our speech/ideas are speculation, we dont know if guus is coming to juve but we also dont know if the sun is rising tomorrow. Obviously some are stronger that others as illustrated by the 2 examples mentioned, but the strength is relative to how much evidence supports it as with the sun rising tomorrow. Based on the evidence i have come across i have some idea of God's mercy but to go ahead and establish firm description and knowledge no one can.
- Status