Able Xavier Converts to Islam (3 Viewers)

[Fred]

Muhammad was well aware that people from all Arabia went there for hajj but he disrespected their beliefs by destroying the idols.

Of course, he knew very well that he must do it if he wants to achieve what he achieved, but it still means that he completely disrespected their beliefs. And that's what Hoori was saying when she criticized Rebel for not accepting his beliefs to be criticized.




Yes, when the influential people, usually the nobility and the high priest convert, the others follow them. But when do the influential people or high priests convert?
Abu Sufyan wasn't someone who'd take a "sign of God" like that.
They converted only because they knew what will happen to them, and the people of Mecca, if they don't.
But did they really accept Islam so fast or they only did it in public?



Those like Abu Sufyan who weren't Muslims before the conquest and didn't truly accept Islam after the conquest.
But could they write it down?
No, the victors could do it only and they wrote it as they wished.

You know, it's like the history of Palestine after 1947 being written only by Jews.

What would have happened to them? and how did you conclude that?

 

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[YasoR17]

I don't like to argue with fools because people can tell who's who from far away. Who gives a Salami what the guy want to believe in. some racist around here are waiting for any chance to attack and start throwing stereotypes. If I wanted to talk about the negativity among other religion I would need years to state what the Jew, and christians did wrong, but that is not the case. There is a bad and good side in each religion but people are blind or dump enough that they usually only see what they want to see or what their peanuts size brain want to know. open up your mind and stop this stupidity of bashing all muslims for the actions of thousands while there are over a billion in the whole world. when you watch the news don't believe everything they tell you because every channel has it's own agenda that wants to deliver. Iranian that I have met here they all bash Islam because they are opressed by their Islamic government so they usually tend to bash the religion, i tell them stop acting out of frustration and focus on the main problem which is your government because i lived in muslim countries (Lebanon, and kuwait) and I was never opressed or treated badly. Religion is not the problem, the main problem is the close minded people who practise a religion and take things out of proportion and manipulate things for their own sick deed to justify treating other people in a wrong way and kill innocent people all over the world.

 

[Alen]

What would have happened to them? and how did you conclude that?

Forget for a second that we're talking about Mohammad and Muslims.
What was happening to all those who were defeated, concurred and didn't join the ones who defeated them?

Killed, oppressed, lost most of their rights, threated as second rate citizens etc.

 

[Fred]

Forget for a second that we're talking about Mohammad and Muslims.
What was happening to all those who were defeated, concurred and didn't join the ones who defeated them?

Killed, oppressed, lost most of their rights, threated as second rate citizens etc.

So because thats the case most of the time, then its the case all of the time?

 

[Zé Tahir]

What part of my previous post denies that?

This is a simple question for you: Were all the people whose idols were being kept in Kaaba had converted to Islam? Were all the people of Mecca Muslims at that time? What were all those battles for then? There were some who fought against Muhammad and his followers. Some who were still worshiping their idols but Muhammad did cleanse the Kaaba from all those idols.

The idols were destroyed AFTER the battles, and yes people had started to convert at that point. In fact, people brought their idols from their homes to the Ka'aba and destroyed them.

My post wasn't to judge whether Muhammad insulted those Kafirs or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Someone calls "converting to Islam" backwards and retarded. Muslims here feel insulted. I asked a question from Rebel. How is this an insult when your prophet, Muhammad, did the same to those who were keeping their idols in Kaaba, holding them in holiness, worshiping them?

You did however support the guy who made a gigantic generalization about millions of people. I know...you're a "Muslim" living under an oppressive regime but that's no excuse to be daft. You truly are a product of your retarded government except you're delusional and think you've outsmarted them because you're everything they're not.

As a Muslim, you do believe that Abraham was too a messenger from God. Have you heard about his story with the idols where he smashed them all, leaving only the biggest one? It's in fact mentioned in Qoran. Why did he do it? Didn't he know how those idols were holy for his people? Do you call it an insult or you prefer to claim that what Abraham did was wrong?

Those idols were made by his family and destroyed because they were his to destroy. I can break my TV if I want and that's none of your business even if you like to come over and watch shows on it.

I didn't say he didn't live in exile for over 10 years.
I didn't say Hinda didn't eat Hamzah's liver.
I didn't say his daughter wasn't pushed off a camel.
I never said a man whose name you forget didn't kill one of Muhammad's relatives.
You probably read only the first two lines of my post and it forced you to go through Muhammad' biography. Had you read some more lines of my previous post, you would have been spare putting forth all those efforts.

I'm not mourning over those broken idols. I just find it ludicrous that Muslims are easily being irritated when someone takes Muhammad's name in vain. They take it as an insult if someone calls their beliefs stupid and retarded. Muhammad too found the whole concept of "idolatry" wrong and credulous. He broke the idols out of Kaaba. Thing is that you'd never take it as an insult to those who were worshiping those cult images because you think Muhammad was right. Just if you start to have an exhaustive look over the matter you'd realize that the Muslims are actually the last who can complain about those who're mocking them.

Yeah, neither did Rebel ask for you to give him a nonsensical historic story about the idols in the Ka'aba. He simply asked the idiot why he was being an ignorant generalizing bigot in his own words.

I've had discussions on Islam and the Holy Prophet before I joined these forums and I've had them while being a member on here (in real life) and we keep it civil. It's just that when people sit behind a keyboard thousands of miles away they feel like they can be disrespectful jerks. I've never ever gotten into an argument on this subject where someone ends up disrespecting something I believe in nor have I done any such thing. There's a fine line between disagreement and disrespect.

 

[Zé Tahir]

What would have happened to them? and how did you conclude that?

Yeah, seriously.

What happened to the ones that didn't convert? Ever heard of people being chased down and killed? Ffs, the man forgave the murderers of his unborn grandchild, the gruesome murder and mutilation of his uncle and this is the man who intimidated people into converting to Islam??

Did he also force Hinda, the person responsible for the death of his uncle, Hamza, to sneak her way in and convert to Islam at the hands of the Prophet? The Prophet had said he'd never forgive her for what she did but once she converted (without the knowledge of the Prophet because she was veiled) he forgave even her.

 

[ReBeL]

Member A called Islam a backward cult and Member B said that Muhammad did exactly what you don't want to be done to you and what member A did.
What you immediately did was to call member A a clueless Zionist and member B an Islam hater in order to downplay their arguments.

Can it be that member A is really Greek and member B doesn't hate Islam at all?

Ok, Alen...Member A is probably Greek, but his ideology is so Zionist. Here you can find two posts for him since around 1 year:

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1872702&postcount=3248
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1879141&postcount=3908

About member B, she is always trying to flame any discussion against Islam because she feels, as the majority of Irani people, that Islam came as a success to the Arabs against Persians although that is so wrong, but this way of thinking is so familiar in Iran even if these people don't say that publicly...

It is not just about her posts in this thread, but always she has something against Islam because she feels that she would feel better if Islam was not ruling in her country. I don't blame her, but in the same time, I won't interfere in her way of thinking...

I replied to her just because she has written that I can not complain out of all people. I wanted to know why, but it seems she has nothing to support her words.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Forget for a second that we're talking about Mohammad and Muslims.
What was happening to all those who were defeated, concurred and didn't join the ones who defeated them?

Killed, oppressed, lost most of their rights, threated as second rate citizens etc.

What in history shows that non-Muslims were mistreated by the Holy Prophet? Can you produce anything? Because I can produce a lot proving the opposite. Jews were judged by Jewish law and a treaty was made promising the Christians protection.

 

[ReBeL]

Serious question Reb, and I'm sure you'll give me an honest answer. You call them Quraysh infidels. To you i'm an infidel too and I won't mind at all if you call me an infidel.
But I wonder if you'll mind if I call you an infidel.
"That Palestinian infidel", for example, or "those Arab infidels".

Well, Alen.

In Islam, only Muslims, Christians, and jews are not infidels. The others are infidels.

I won't call you anything related to the religion categories ever because simply I think God knows more than me in categorizing people.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Ok, Alen...Member A is probably Greek, but his ideology is so Zionist. Here you can find two posts for him since around 1 year:

http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1872702&postcount=3248
http://www.juventuz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1879141&postcount=3908

About member B, she is always trying to flame any discussion against Islam because she feels, as the majority of Irani people, that Islam came as a success to the Arabs against Persians although that is so wrong, but this way of thinking is so familiar in Iran even if these people don't say that publicly...

It is not just about her posts in this thread, but always she has something against Islam because she feels that she would feel better if Islam was not ruling in her country. I don't blame her, but in the same time, I won't interfere in her way of thinking...

I replied to her just because she has written that I can not complain out of all people. I wanted to know why, but it seems she has nothing to support her words.

Perhaps it is the original Persian sorrow. The Byzantines were smart enough to leave the Arabs alone but the Persians were appalled that their King was not being worshiped and decided to fight them but lost.

 

[ReBeL]

Perhaps it is the original Persian sorrow. The Byzantines were smart enough to leave the Arabs alone but the Persians were appalled that their King was not being worshiped and decided to fight them but lost.

Exactly.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

They converted to Islam but they didn't remove the idols themselves? They waited until Muhammad came to throw those stones away?



What part of my previous post denies that?

This is a simple question for you: Were all the people whose idols were being kept in Kaaba had converted to Islam? Were all the people of Mecca Muslims at that time? What were all those battles for then? There were some who fought against Muhammad and his followers. Some who were still worshiping their idols but Muhammad did cleanse the Kaaba from all those idols. My post wasn't to judge whether Muhammad insulted those Kafirs or not. It wasn't the point of my post. Someone calls "converting to Islam" backwards and retarded. Muslims here feel insulted. I asked a question from Rebel. How is this an insult when your prophet, Muhammad, did the same to those who were keeping their idols in Kaaba, holding them in holiness, worshiping them?

As a Muslim, you do believe that Abraham was too a messenger from God. Have you heard about his story with the idols where he smashed them all, leaving only the biggest one? It's in fact mentioned in Qoran. Why did he do it? Didn't he know how those idols were holy for his people? Do you call it an insult or you prefer to claim that what Abraham did was wrong?



I didn't say he didn't live in exile for over 10 years.
I didn't say Hinda didn't eat Hamzah's liver.
I didn't say his daughter wasn't pushed off a camel.
I never said a man whose name you forget didn't kill one of Muhammad's relatives.

You probably read only the first two lines of my post and it forced you to go through Muhammad' biography. Had you read some more lines of my previous post, you would have been spare putting forth all those efforts.

I'm not mourning over those broken idols. I just find it ludicrous that Muslims are easily being irritated when someone takes Muhammad's name in vain. They take it as an insult if someone calls their beliefs stupid and retarded. Muhammad too found the whole concept of "idolatry" wrong and credulous. He broke the idols out of Kaaba. Thing is that you'd never take it as an insult to those who were worshiping those cult images because you think Muhammad was right. Just if you start to have an exhaustive look over the matter you'd realize that the Muslims are actually the last who can complain about those who're mocking them.



The sadder thing is vanity. The saddest thing is faking to be someone you are not.

Do you know how is a drum's sound like? It's deep and loud. Its vessel is hollow though. An empty inside with a loud sound. For some reason you always remind me of a drum' construction.

could have found a better a copout, i personally give two craps about what you or anyone else on here think(notice not know) of me. At the end of the day you re just like mcrae taking your frustration out on the first opportunity. but this hollow empty vain person challenges you to look beyong his deformities and actually answer my argument, if you can of course.

lol

at least she put words together

 

[GordoDeCentral]

oh and how did abu sufyan die? mmmh yeah he must have been just pretending to be a muslim, i like you better when you left subjects you have no idea about alone.

 

[Ventus]

Fine then next time you guys buy a new house from someone, your not allowed to move/ or change the wall paper, this will only show disrespect to the previous owner.


Meh your arguments all suck, this website is full of intolerant scum fucks, who start arguments the second islam is mentioned.

Yea lets all deny the prejudice comments, just like we did with mario balotalli with his clear racist insults.

 

[Lion]

go fornicate yourself

 

[Bjerknes]

There is no Islam, only Petroleumism. Since God is omnipresent, that must mean that Allah is crude oil. Cars run on crude oil, plastic consists of oil, most paints on buildings and houses of worship are made from petroleum, most of the Earth is covered by fossil fuels, and most importantly, the holy place of Mecca, is located within just a few kilometers of a beautiful oil field. Everything you touch, feel and see consists of petroleum.

Therefore, the real Allah is crude oil, and the next time you see an ExxonMobil or Shell, bow to His price display. Oil is the real Allah and Chevron is His prophet.

 

[Lion]

lulz were had

 

[Bjerknes]

The body of Christ.

Amen.

 

[Bjerknes]

Allah'akbar.

 

[Azzurri7]

mcrae, The real clown here is no one but you, Sir. Clownish backwards cult? Couldn't you come up with a better phrase at least? You show ignorant just because individuals did couple of bad things back there in Greece? You throw your hate because you think Muslims all over the world don't respect the law and don't obey the system?

If that's the case, and if everyone wants to be an ignorant like yourself, then I should hate all Christians because several ones have the wrong definition of Islam and Muslim people. I should also hate Europeans because some pricks thought that I carry TNT inside my pocket. Does it sound right to you like this? Have you ever been to a Muslim country to judge on them? to judge on their people? If all you want to see is the negative side of them, then blame no one but yourself.

Your Salami, Ramadan examples are even worse.


Hoori, You really don't need two to tell if he's insulting Muslims or not. I myself as a Muslim non believer in religion, I wouldn't mind to see him throwing an insult or two had he knows what he's talking about instead of being a racist closed mind. And why should Rebel out of everyone be the last one to complain?


Ian, this argument, Muslims are touchy about things has to be the silliest argument in this thread.

-People make fun out of Muslims = We should be open minded and laugh with them. etc

-Lets blame the Muslims for 11sep, We should smile. etc

-Couple of Muslims in Greece according to our intelligent member mcrae did some hooliganism stuff there, then it's all Muslims fault, and we should accept it. etc

-Lets keep arguing about the Islam religion, mock them make fun out of them... in return we should have a big smile and not be touchy. etc


Let me tell you something, it becomes only touchy when people take things out of the line and exaggerate and don't know their limits.

When people cross their limits and don't know how and when to stop then it's only normal to become sensitive and touchy about this.

I'm never too touchy when it comes to religion, but when I see everyone directly or indirectly making fun and putting stupid remarks then it's only normal that I become touchy.