A second look at Virginia Tech (5 Viewers)

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

I stand corrected. Surely now you're just humoring me?

I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR PUSSY ASS WITH A GAT!

bloom bloom

damn, now im a pussy

 

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[ßöмßäяðîëя]

That's the scary thing. People like to brush aside the issue and claim that those who commit these crimes are simply psychos, pussies, or what not. Nothing is done to address the issue except for tying random stereotypes to certain people.

Therefore, the problem persists.

BRUSH ASIDE LIKE YOU WAS MR T BRUSHER???

That's a strange concept, "people friendly" college.

Even at our high school, with a graduating class around 60, it didn't really seem "people friendly."

But only pussies are allowed in.

 

[Martin]

But when you say that you basically wash your hands of it. "There's nothing we can do anyway." How helpful. The truth is, which we don't think about much in daily life, that all our interactions with people have consequences. Every gesture matters. So if you approach life from that angle then there is actually a lot you can do to do good around you.

That don't mean you'll prevent Virginia Tech, but you can and will affect your own environment in a positive way. And people respond to the actions of others, so all it takes is one person to be friendly and you can effectively get several other people to follow, not only in dealing with you, but with each other.

And from Burke's survival of the fittest perspective, if you say hi to Cho in the hall as one of the few, he might not kill you. :choc:

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Did you just quote and reply to yourself?

 

[Martin]

Yes and no

 

[v1rtu4l]

first off, i read that article and there are a few things that i would like to moan about ^^


the article says that "mobbing itself is rare"... i don't know what it is in america, but i thing this is a huge understatement. i thing mobbing is really nothing you would consider to be rare in todays world

further the article explains about cho's inability to speak in front of many people or even a few people. as that "illness" was already assessed pretty early i wonder why he did go to a normal university.

in germany you have some schools specially for this kind of kids that have problems either behaviourwise or a problem with learning. surely the mobbing is not so common there, because i think everyone there has his obvious flaws so they do rather not mobb each other (but thats just speculation)

one problem which may reside on americas side is, that weapons are far to easy accessible. this is not the solution for the trigger of a riot, but if you have no access to weapons you can not shot people.

in germany the access to weapons is way more restrictive and i think that is a good thing.

we had some school shootings too, but after investigations you could see that the pupil did have easy access to their weapons do to the parents having them in an open cupboard or something.

there are situations as kid you can be dragged into that make you try to defend yourself and if you are in a forrest you would grab a piece of wood to defend yourself against attackers. if there is a weapon easily attainable than todays kids will choose those.

the triggering incident with the creative writing class teacher is a sad but pretty common i guess. many teachers do not have time to inform themselfes about their students illnesses (selective mutism in this case), so i think it would have been cho himself who should have told the teacher.

this case does only point out that it is important to have a special place for some people that do have special illnesses, because normal teachers and proffs do not seem to give a fuck about it or have to much to do to be concerned enough with those topics...

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

How no?

 

[Martin]

How no?

I quoted it because it was a follow up to the quote. It wasn't a reply to myself, it was for Aaron.

 

[Vinman]

Considering bullies and bullying have been around for hundreds of years and school shootings have merely become prevalent in the last ten I find it difficult to acknowledge a correlation between the two.

Most everyone is picked on to some degree while growing up, but not everyone picks up a gun and shoots people. People mess up in school all the time. Some are even forced out.

In this case it's more about the individual's ability to handle his own problems. People fail to realize especially when entering college that you are now in the stage of life where you're expecting to act like a "grown ass man", as a friend of mine once put. A lot of people aren't willing to take that on, especially in this case. Kids go into college and expect to be coddled, but when they aren't, especially at a school like Tech (big), it can be a shock. It's obvious Mr Cho or whatever his name is wasn't prepared for college and had a lot going on in his life. We can blame society or his environment for not reaching a hand out to help the kid, but the reality of the situation is the kid didn't help himself. He didn't reach out, didn't talk to anyone, and didn't become aware of the fact that he was becoming a danger until it was too late. We can blame humanity all we want, but in reality it was all Mr Cho's fault.

That's all bullshit. At what point to we take responsibility for our own actions?

Boohoo, life isn't fair. Plenty of people get made fun of, mess up in school, or get dumped by their girlfriends, but only a few of them go shoot up a bunch of people they don't even know.

I said many kids run into trouble at college, the majority of them do not go on to kill people.

I read it. The kid was diagnosed with his condition at 14. He knew if he went to a big school he could run into trouble. And at a big school like Virginia Tech a kid with a social condition is going to have a hard time. He and his parents both knew this.

So you're saying I should feel bad for a kid who knew he had a severe social issue, yet decided to enroll in a school where the likelihood of a professor knowing his name would be very low?

So he entered a 30,000+ student school and found himself invisible, unable to make friends, and unable to talk to anyone about his problems. And we're supposed to feel bad that he shot a bunch of students he didn't even know, that may or may have made fun of him? Because it's really debatable about how many of the kids he killed actually knew who he was.

There is no doubt there is bullying in schools and it's wrong. But at the same time it's a part of life. No matter what you do you'll never stop it. Trust me I know, I'm a product of the system. Grade school, Junior high, and parts of high school were hell for me. I mean really bad. I won't say any more because I'm not into "sharing". I'll put it like this, in junior high Burke and Andy would not have been my friends. I never shot anyone. And I don't have any sympathy for those who do.

int: int: int:

Aaron's on fire today !!

 

[Bjerknes]

Well, it's our typical American response to everything, right?

He's a pussy, he's different, there must be something wrong him, he's a faggot, he's not a patriot, he's a communist, he's a terrorist, et cetera. It's all the same thing.

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Well, it's our typical American response to everything, right?

He's a pussy, he's different, there must be something wrong him, he's a faggot, he's not a patriot, he's a communist, he's a terrorist, et cetera. It's all the same thing.

You're a reader!

 

[Martin]

int: int: int:

Aaron's on fire today !!

Do you have anything constructive to say? Or are you all set with the kid who was bullied and killed people?

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

Settle down, you sound like a Jarhead.

 

[Martin]

who

 

[Bjerknes]

Do you have anything constructive to say? Or are you all set with the kid who was bullied and killed people?

He likes bullying. It gives him more business.

 

[Enron]

That's a strange concept, "people friendly" college.

Even at our high school, with a graduating class around 60, it didn't really seem "people friendly."

Take Shepherd for example. If you have a disability, the school will go out of it's way to make arrangements for you to succeed. You can get more time on tests, meet with counselors if your disability requires it, etc. The first school I went to took this to a greater extreme, by placing socially challenged students in upperclassmen dormitories where there is a more community support-based atmosphere. And in addition informing RA's of the student's issue on a confidential basis. There are many schools that do this and actually pride themselves on going out of the way to help students succeed.

 

[Bjerknes]

Take Shepherd for example. If you have a disability, the school will go out of it's way to make arrangements for you to succeed. You can get more time on tests, meet with counselors if your disability requires it, etc. The first school I went to took this to a greater extreme, by placing socially challenged students in upperclassmen dormitories where there is a more community support-based atmosphere. And in addition informing RA's of the student's issue on a confidential basis. There are many schools that do this and actually pride themselves on going out of the way to help students succeed.

Well, at least here, students with disabilities are given the same attention, as in time on tests, et cetera.

I think all schools have to do so.

 

[Martin]

Take Shepherd for example. If you have a disability, the school will go out of it's way to make arrangements for you to succeed. You can get more time on tests, meet with counselors if your disability requires it, etc. The first school I went to took this to a greater extreme, by placing socially challenged students in upperclassmen dormitories where there is a more community support-based atmosphere. And in addition informing RA's of the student's issue on a confidential basis. There are many schools that do this and actually pride themselves on going out of the way to help students succeed.

That sounds really good

 

[ßöмßäяðîëя]

The test thing is for kids with ADD, not for kids in wheel chairs.

 

[Enron]

The teachers were themselves bullies, dude. Or perhaps not bullies in the classical sense, but contributing to his condition, that was the whole point of that story I posted.

Fine, so maybe he/they didn't have the foresight. Maybe they didn't know a great deal about "big schools". So what? He got harassed and ended up shooting 40 people. And I'm willing to claim that it's because he did just that we can get a wake up call and stop pretending like it's nothing to worry about.

Well you've got to realize that a university like Virginia Tech doesn't prioritize students feelings, emotions, or problems. I don't think any major university in the world does. The whole point of education at a place like Virginia Tech is to weed out those who can't cut it. Especially in the engineering program which is one of the most competitive programs in the nation. I'm not saying to let the professors off the hook here, in fact not at all. You need to realize that these professors are not really equipped to handle students with special needs. To expect compassion in such a rigorous and competitive setting is a bit like hoping for sunshine in the middle of the night. It's not likely to happen.

I'm not saying that the parents should have seen their kid killing people in the future because he went to a big school. If you think I've said that then you are completely over analyzing my posts. I'm just saying sending any kid with a special need, especially one of this magnitude where the kid could stop all communication because of social pressures, isn't the greatest catalyst for success. There are schools that do go out of their way to help people.

I don't think anyone is saying the death of 30 people is nothing to worry about. If anything it speaks volumes about the way Virginia Tech handles students with special needs. It's hardly a reflection of society as a whole. Considering not everyone bullies and not everyone condones it. But as of right now it is a part of life. It shouldn't happen, but it does. It will probably always happen on some level, no matter what country or era you live in. There will always be assholes.

Really the only thing we can do is work with kids to be able to deal with it. Joining clubs, sports teams, after school programs are constructive ways to avoid bullying and make friends.