A present day Moses (7 Viewers)

[rounder]

I can answer this very simply: why not? Why not question religion? Why not expose the harm it causes?

Religion has caused no harm. Stupid and violent human beings have caused harm and suffering. Religious messages preach peace, harmony, and equality. Corrupt human beings use religious powers to their advantage.

Now let me show you how what you said sound like in different context.

Some Swiss people have planned a terrorist plot to kill hundreds of innocent people. Switzerland is a terrorist country. This logic is terribly flawed very much like your statement. If churches have in any way used religion for their own benefit, and have caused murders to many, this is not Religion's fault, it is their fault.

 

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[Il Re]

Martin one could easily ask why does nobody expose the GOOD religeon causes?

 

[Martin]

Martin one could easily ask why does nobody expose the GOOD religeon causes?

I believe you have to go no further than to the nearest church to learn that your sins will be forgiven and you'll hang out for eternity in god's back yard.
Are you saying their advertising is not sufficiently aggressive?

 

[rounder]

I believe you have to go no further than to the nearest church to learn that your sins will be forgiven and you'll hang out for eternity in god's back yard.
Are you saying their advertising is not sufficiently aggressive?

That's precisely what I'm talking about. Corrupt priests have tarnished the name of Christianity.

 

[Il Re]

I believe you have to go no further than to the nearest church to learn that your sins will be forgiven and you'll hang out for eternity in god's back yard.
Are you saying their advertising is not sufficiently aggressive?

sorry, which church is this? which advertising?

maybe im very naive on that front

but what i mean is, have you not considered the good in religeon, you knwo what i mean, the whole, love the neighbour blah blah, if i look at people i know, i can say without a shadow of a doubt, that the reliegous people are much nicer and have much better morals than non reliegous people, thats just form my experience, and as a generalisation, but what most religeons teach is good, a lot of the time, the so called bad stuff, is either not in the religeon, or jsut down to the person being to be frank a dick

 

[Martin]

That's precisely what I'm talking about. Corrupt priests have tarnished the name of Christianity.

So promising eternal life is corrupt now? :confused2

 

[bianconero]

Jesus saves- with the Woolwich!

 

[rounder]

So promising eternal life is corrupt now? :confused2

Yes. This priest cannot promise immortality to anyone. Who does he think he is?
He is merely lying to innocent people who have commited obcene murders and trues to give them peace of mind for the objective of fattening his wallet.

 

[Il Re]

martin thats like those dumbass terrorists who say all america is evil, maybe the government might be evil, but to say the whole of the usa is evil? bit stupid no? you cannot tarnish anyone who is of a religeon with the same brush, you get good people and bad people everywhere, but on the whole people who genuinely follow a religeon are good people

 

[Il Re]

Jesus saves- with the Woolwich!

 

[Martin]

sorry, which church is this? which advertising?

Every church. Religion's raison d'etre is to pacify man's fear of death. That's what each one promises eternal life.

but what i mean is, have you not considered the good in religeon, you knwo what i mean, the whole, love the neighbour blah blah, if i look at people i know, i can say without a shadow of a doubt, that the reliegous people are much nicer and have much better morals than non reliegous people

How interesting, because I've never noticed anything of the kind. It's also never been documented, and we tend not to accept anecdote as fact.

thats just form my experience, and as a generalisation, but what most religeons teach is good, a lot of the time, the so called bad stuff, is either not in the religeon, or jsut down to the person being to be frank a dick

This is false logic. I see you're being careful here, saying "most of the bad stuff". Some people are less scrupulous and they just define religion = good and therefore "everything religious is good" and why not "everything good is religious" to top it off. But that doesn't make it true just because it's said.

Noone said religion is all bad, did they? Or at least I didn't.

 

[rounder]

Martin, you said religion is the cause of pain and suffering in the world.

 

[Martin]

Martin, you said religion is the cause of pain and suffering in the world.

When was this?

EDIT: Nevermind. Point is I didn't say it was the only cause. Nor did I say it only caused pain and suffering. So my statement still stands.

 

[rounder]

When was this?

EDIT: Nevermind. Point is I didn't say it was the only cause. Nor did I say it only caused pain and suffering. So my statement still stands.

I know you didn't mean it was the only cause, but you still believe that religion causes harm? To be perfectly reasonable, I really don't see how scriptures that teach morality, forgiveness, love, respect can be deemed as being harmful to mankind. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[Martin]

I know you didn't mean it was the only cause, but you still believe that religion causes harm? To be perfectly reasonable, I really don't see how scriptures that teach morality, forgiveness, love, respect can be deemed as being harmful to mankind. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

We've been over this before. If all religion was doing was to "teach morality, forgiveness, love, respect", without the god stuff, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[rounder]

We've been over this before. If all religion was doing was to "teach morality, forgiveness, love, respect", without the god stuff, there wouldn't be a problem.

I'm not following. What do you mean without the god stuff? As in pray9ng and that sort of stuff?

 

[Martin]

Love, peace, respect is not harmful. Telling people to believe in something without a good reason is.

 

[rounder]

I think many people have reasons to believe. Countless people have chosen faith after years of studying and reflecting. This as I said depends on the individual, perhaps you see no reason to believe and that's your business. But it is a fact that numerous theists are not merely robots that have no choice but to believe in god as you have suggested, although some do exist.

 

[Elvin]

I blame the Western Media for Martin's beliefs

 

[Martin]

I blame the Western Media for Martin's beliefs

So it's not my fault? Kewl