A Pathetic democracy!!! (10 Viewers)

[Rami]

that's right, the only countries out there who are just DYING for democracy are the arab ones.. i mean Iran, Palestine, Libya..
oh and Saddam was a big fan of democracy what with the "whoever disagrees with my government policy i let my son torture him in the basement" policy. very democratical. evil Westerners.

This reminds me of the movie Crash: "Since when Persian meant Arab"

 

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[Rami]

So the Turks didn't conquer Palestine or Palestine wouldnt be part of Jordan?

The Ottoman empire ruled for centuries the Arabian countries, and it wasn't seen exactly as a bad thing. Don't get me wrong there were conflicts and problems, it wasn't blissful. But by no means was the Ottoman Empire was looked at like the European conquests in the region. Those were simply invadors in the mind of the people. And by no means its like Israel ruling Palestine.

 

[- vOnAm -]

Indeed, please say the US. If talking about the cultural and economic war that the US is waging world wide, then that's something. What you said was spot on, but it's far worse.

Then stop saying West. If you google western governments you will find many different types of democratic governments. They aren't all the same. Only in that they have a Senate to check the primary ruler.

Point Taken!
(feel so stupid)
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Who ever said democracy was evil?

But Democracy is a tool for politics and especially economics, when you have power to influence mass people with television, news reports and the like you are able to create a false reality...this is how I believe to some extent "western" democracy is bieng used..

With a US type democracy installed, the US can control other nations by manipulating news and spreading ideas/cultures that are not suited for the region's values. Any notion to prevent such spreading would be "un-democratic" thus evil an inhumane.

 

[Ian]

Point Taken!
(feel so stupid)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who ever said democracy was evil?

But Democracy is a tool for politics and especially economics, when you have power to influence mass people with television, news reports and the like you are able to create a false reality...this is how I believe to some extent "western" democracy is bieng used..

With a US type democracy installed, the US can control other nations by manipulating news and spreading ideas/cultures that are not suited for the region's values. Any notion to prevent such spreading would be "un-democratic" thus evil an inhumane.

I think that "Rich White American", would be even more accurate...

 

[joe5]

Now that you have brought up teh famous word terrorism which israel most commonly uses to back its causes in killing many civilians.. why not define the word itself.

Here is a definition of terrorism according to dictionary.com.

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

To say that Israel is not doing terrorism is either based on useless knowledge or speculating on ones inner beliefs and stubborn desires. Firstly lets break this definition up... "The unlawful use"..

Now I have used unlawful many times I have already prooven that the actions done by Isarel are worldwide reknowned to be unlawful.. if you dont recognise this then please refre back to the U.N Acts that I brought up earliar. Next is the word "threatened". Israel has threatened to do many tasks where civilians are the cause of affliction. However on this matter I must admit Israel may perform more unlawful actions that actions in which they may threat, this is simply because a person who threats is usually a person who gives a warning to the opposition. However time and time again we dont see this as its a matter of instant action when Israel decide to take over a palestinian camp or may as well kill a few youngsters on the streets who are "performing terrorism.. by throwing mere stones at the soldiers".

Moving on I dont think I need to go onto teh next disjuntion which states the word "violence" I have already specified what kidn of violence occurs as a result of israels dominant tyranny against teh palestinians civilians. The next disjunction mentions against people or property. Notice that in this case it is both, its against people and their property and as a result is what would be reknowned to be truely living by the definition of terrorism. Intention of intimidating.. thee few words certainly round up some of israels actions, they do intend to intimidate and a response from the palestinians.. and for obvious reasons they achieve that, tehre is never a case where they would sit back and accept a suicide bombing.. of course not its not in their nature, theyw ont sit back and say to the rest of the world look, this time I wont fire back simply because I am a peaceful person and want to resolve the matter. Nevertheless we see strikes performed constantly against areas where residents live who may as a result have their feelings or sentinements regarding peace shattered. Now I see the question popping up.. well why on earth dont palestine do that?.

Reasons are a) They are not a democratic nation, infact they aint even regarded as a nation. b) History has shown they have followed such principles but it resulting to be only thwarted back in their face.. I earliar prooved this with the Oslo agreement. c) They dont have enough power and resources to help and refute the oppression which they face daily.. on the contrary israel does not face such oppression simply because they are divided state and lives in independence. I have already prooven this by the the wall division and secondly by the large amount of support provided by the Americans. d) They do not have enough power to spread the news of such ceasefire or resistance which they have stopped and I have also proven this with my post on how media is controlled. And foremost e) They are as a result of israels actions losing more civilians by both methods killing and finally capturing, this as a result psychologically provides the average palestinian no belief in peace.

Moving on.. now armed resistance is clearly a matter of what a person has in terms of weaponry is what he can use. Also whe in idelogical or guerilla warfare whatever you may use to call it..Such resistance only produces the best results through its yield in productivity. What do I mean by this? As I said earliar.. To fight with a klashinov or any other gun would lead in more deaths for the palestinians. These deaths would be very easy for a nation like israel who are one of the most armed country in the world and the ONLY country that actually posess nuclear warfare in the arab region. Ignoring the nuclear warfare matter it has some of teh most sophisticated weaponry that it can fire missles and as a result very easily kill the "guerillas". Now only solution in which they can actually create a greater yield of production and outcry there voice in armed resistance is by yes indeed the word you hate the most and one that brings shivers across your spine... suicide bombing. I have already said earliar on that I hate that tactic, nevertheless it remains one of the only choice to actually bring some sort of "shiver" to the israelis. This is more of a psychological war but at the end it is seen on ground of this as terrorism. Palestine itself does not have an army unfortunately simply because it is not a clear recognised state therefore the people who may fight against the oppression it country recieves is clearly regarded as the army of the people as as time has gone on, this itself has been proven with the elections with hamas. People are losing the feeling of peace and rightly so, simply because the world has not done enough to help both nations live upto their agreement. Once again the Oslo agreement was vital to this yet it was broken by guess who. I have already prooven this if unsure then go back to my original post a few pages back. Therefore very clearly and precisely they are both regarded to be the same, infact they both are the same, you wont a single war out there in the world in which innocent people have not died, terrorism itself exists amongst many wars ane sometimes equally on both sides and sometimes not.. in this case it is very clear, its israel who has teh upper hand in terrorism, why you ask? as I have prooven by teh definition they have lived to proove all the disjunctions in the sentence and rhetorically brought it to be a conjunction of all the sentence. This is by not only destroying peoples home.. but also killing them. As a result what the palestinians have done is just killed, some may say brutal some may say may say its nothing compared to being killed cold blooded, that itself shall remain debated.

As for your your second mini paragraph, yes they aint exactly freedom fighters but they are trying to resolve an issue in retaliation, to some extent this is freedom because freedom will never exist but to resist an occupation, to resist the opression, to resist the tyranny is itself freedom, it may bring more harm in the end but every palestinian and every person who may be victimised would feel the exact way, they seek help, no help is provided as a result more dollars are sent to israel for ammunition. They seek support, no support is sent, they have no alternative, they have sat on desks, worn there favourite suits but nothing has helped. The people of PLO were nothing more than money scvangers themselfs and to a certain extent played a vital role and helping israel more than their own people. The people who may be regarded as terrorists now are infact more related to their people, they care more, they certainly would give there live for them, which shows that they are prepared to do absolutely anything to gain freedom and yes even if it involves an eye for an eye.

The people who blow themselves up and try to take as many jews as possible with them are not freedom fighters. Their actions do not free anyone. They are simply exacting the revenge that they feel entitled to, in the manner prescribed by their culture and religion. You would have to be a bigger fool than I think you are to be under the impression that suicide bombing achieves anything for the Palestinian cause, because it certainly does not. As for your mini statement regarding me to be a bigger fool or whatever, I dont really care what you may think of me, or any other pro palestinian, the bottom line is they really dont have much of an alternative, the only alternative is.. and I repeat is more international pressure, especially on the country who has broken countless UN regulations.

The president of that country nevertheless portrays his hatred and as always has sparked his feelings amongst the residence of israel from the early days, Sharon told magazine Ouze Merham in 1956 "I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do, but we tell others what they shall do." There are other statements made by Sharon and his cabinet with similar ideology; however, one is enough. Though Sharon's hatred for Palestinians is documented, the United States continues to support Israel. President Bush even went so far as to call Sharon a nice and peaceful man in a speech of his on 17 April 2004. This comment on Sharon’s character is an abomination to any peace loving person. I say no more, let your own minds percieve what you may be destined to feel...

Congrats PhRoZeN for your argument which are based in authentic facts and indeed they are leading one third person to true conclusions.

Till now i haven’t seen the people who are pro of Israel to have convinced arguments. They try to mislead the other peaple by the justification of suicide attacks from Palestinians. I want them to make true arguments and not accusements.

I agree that these attacks are not the best method if you want to find a solution of your matter, but if someone is oppressed by others barbarian oppressions then he doesn’t have any other choice to do.

Know that if someone came and took my house, my land and my property then i would have 2 options. Or i would die from my distression because i couldn’t do anything, or i would try to kill as more of my enemies i can, and i wouldn’t mind if i blew up myself for this. My choice would be the second one.

Believe me that i am Christian and not Muslim, but i want to tell to some western Christians who say that suicide attacks are made only by Muslims that in my country Greece there were many circumstances in which Christian priests blowed up their monasteries or other buildings in which they had refuged because they preferred to die by their hands that dieing from the hands of their enemies. And now we, their descendants, we have them like heroes, and not “terrorists”. So the meaning of “terrorism” is used in proportion of the circumstances. If one nation is under siege then the Rebels who are against this siege are called “Terrorists” but if this nation become free then these Rebels become heroes.

 

[joe5]

Stop whining about your house. Do you really believe that Palestine would be self governed if there were no Zionist movement.

Zionism is propaganda and not movement and you seem to be a part of this. Do you know that Zionist today are behind many western governments, many multinational companies and I don’t know whatever. Do you know that Zionist are prescribing the history books in many countries especially in Europe and they format the ideas of many people in Europe from their young ages. And as PhRoZeN said in earlier post they control the media and they spread the half-truth all over the world like as many matters in the Middle – East. And we all know that the half-truth is the biggest propaganda today.

And do you know why U.S.A always supports them? Because thanks to them they are now the biggest power on Earth. As I said in earlier post i am not against the Zionists (Jews, masons, or whatever) as human beings, but i am against their evil actions. If they make good actions then I will give them +rep. But i dont know any good of them...

 

[joe5]

Thanks...

This is exactly what I made this thread for.

All the Western countries (Except Norway) are dummies for the stupid Bush and claim that they're democratic and keen to spread democracy and freedom all over the World...

You are right on this but there are not only western countries. How about the American bases in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia?

And also Mr Terrorism (Bush) always threaten the other countries with words like:"if you are not with us you are against us".
What can the other countries then do?

 

[joe5]

Point Taken!
(feel so stupid)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who ever said democracy was evil?

But Democracy is a tool for politics and especially economics, when you have power to influence mass people with television, news reports and the like you are able to create a false reality...this is how I believe to some extent "western" democracy is bieng used..

With a US type democracy installed, the US can control other nations by manipulating news and spreading ideas/cultures that are not suited for the region's values. Any notion to prevent such spreading would be "un-democratic" thus evil an inhumane.

I think that we still have democracy, because we are still writing in this thread.

 

[Bjerknes]

Hamas Calls For 'Giant Summit' With All Israelis

February 15, 2006 | Issue 42•07

RAMALLAH, WEST BANK—After his militant Islamic party took the majority in Palestine's recent elections, Ismail Haniyeh called for a "giant summit with all living Israelis" Monday, rekindling international hopes for peace in the war-torn region.

Haniyeh characterized the one-day summit as "the final solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute," and invited every Jewish citizen of the world to attend. Haniyeh said he expects more than 5 million participants from Israel alone.

"It was foolish of us to think that a satisfactory resolution could be reached through small-scale aggression," Haniyeh said. "It will take more than the sporadic deaths of small groups of Israeli civilians to achieve our ends."

"This summit is long overdue," he added.

Haniyeh, who once said that Palestinian independence could only be achieved through the destruction of Israel, has apparently reversed his stance.

"It is clear to us now that a positive outcome will not be possible unless many, many sacrifices are made," Haniyeh said. "I give my word that the Israeli people shall have their cries for peace heard for miles around."

Haniyeh did not disclose the issues that will be discussed at the summit, saying only that he "would be very surprised if the entire process took longer than a couple of hours."

Haniyeh also extended an invitation to any high-ranking American official who would like to moderate the proceedings.

"We will achieve our goals with or without foreign help," Haniyeh said. "However, if George W. Bush or other top-level U.S. officials wish to attend, it would certainly make those first, most difficult steps a lot easier to take."

In a public statement Tuesday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad endorsed the "Hamas-led peace process," and offered the use of Tehran's Azadi Stadium as an "impartial location away from the distracting glare of publicity."

"It is about time for a summit of this nature," Ahmadinejad said. "The people of Iran will do anything they can to help further this crucial process."

According to Haniyeh, Israelis need only arrive with an open mind, insisting that the summit can have a positive outcome only if traditional and long-standing prejudices "are left at the door, along with any weapons, gas masks, or bulletproof vests."

"Security is of the utmost importance, which is why the summit will be watched over by my most loyal and experienced men," Haniyeh said. "To this end, every Israeli will also be marked with a six-digit protection number."

Hamas has already gone to significant lengths to ensure that Israeli Jews will be able to attend the summit, including transportation via specially chartered freight trains.

"Very much like a cleansing fire, the summit will wipe the slate of Arab-Jewish relations utterly and irreversibly clean," Haniyeh said. "By the end of our negotiations, those who walk out of the summit will be very pleased."

"With the blessing of Allah, we will soon see every last obstacle standing in the path to harmony exterminated," Haniyeh added. "Like the filthy dogs they are."

No official response to Hamas' summit proposal has yet been made. However, it is widely believed that acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his cabinet will propose an alternative mass summit to which Hamas party officials and their Palestinian supporters will be similarly welcomed.


www.theonion.com

 

[Dom88]

I can't see peace in this region for quite some time honestly. IMO Israel fronts up and says it wants talks and a resolution, but in fact they don't want a final resolution because it will mean giving back all stolen land to the Palestinians, which would mean the end of Israel. Palestine got majorly screwed by the West. I'd be seriously pissed off if that happened to my people too.

 

[Muha]

RAMALLAH, WEST BANK—After his militant Islamic party took the majority in Palestine's recent elections, Ismail Haniyeh called for a "giant summit with all living Israelis" Monday, rekindling international hopes for peace in the war-torn region.

See ...Palastenians are looking for peace

 

[flieeeekke]

well its about time..

 

[Bjerknes]

See ...Palastenians are looking for peace

Yeah, right.

Hamas has already gone to significant lengths to ensure that Israeli Jews will be able to attend the summit, including transportation via specially chartered freight trains.

"Very much like a cleansing fire, the summit will wipe the slate of Arab-Jewish relations utterly and irreversibly clean," Haniyeh said. "By the end of our negotiations, those who walk out of the summit will be very pleased."

"With the blessing of Allah, we will soon see every last obstacle standing in the path to harmony exterminated," Haniyeh added. "Like the filthy dogs they are."

 

[Muha]

Like the filthy dogs they are."

dont put shit into people's mouths....

So even after Hanyya offically called for peace? maaan
what do the pals need to do, to make u westeners believe that peace is what they're aiming for????!!!

 

[Rami]

Dude Andy's source is theonion.com!! It's not a news source, it is a satirical joke website.

 

[Bjerknes]

All I have to say is

 

[PhRoZeN]

Dude Andy's source is theonion.com!! It's not a news source, it is a satirical joke website.

True, if you actually insert that comment in google word for word, you will only find theonion.com with this quote.. talking about being biased..

 

[Bjerknes]

dont put shit into people's mouths....

So even after Hanyya offically called for peace? maaan
what do the pals need to do, to make u westeners believe that peace is what they're aiming for????!!!

Right, so they are calling for peace while at the same time calling for the destruction os Israel and subsequently blowing stuff up every other week. Makes a lot of sense to me..

 

[PhRoZeN]

Right, so they are calling for peace while at the same time calling for the destruction os Israel and subsequently blowing stuff up every other week. Makes a lot of sense to me..

The real fact is they have sat on more tables and actually made more negotiations, possibly visited more goverments than PLO did under there era.. of course im taking average into account here but they really are making an effort.. question is will israel? And before I even here the sentence "oh its because they require money", well to be honest so did the PLO only difference being is that hamas is requiring the money for their PEOPLE and not for themselves.

 

[Muha]

well to be honest so did the PLO only difference being is that hamas is requiring the money for their PEOPLE and not for themselves.