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I do. I feel that we could reach -15. It's weird to think of SerieB -15 as good news, though.

True sebi. I'm amazed how light the sentences are for the people involved. Moggi: five years suspension: he already retired ffs. what does he care?? Galliani: one year suspension??? A long and nice holiday for this bastard. Della Vale is one of the few with a peculiar fine. 30 000 Euro? come...

did you ever expect anything better from him?

yes. And there will never be any Derby d'Italia anymore...

So true. Everyone here thinks that SerieB will be so easy, but do we have any idea of what team we'll play with next year? I guess Buffon, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Emerson, Vieira, Zlatan, Trezeguet, Nedved will leave. We are going to play with a team that's nowhere near half as strong as it...

:pumpkin:

Moggi and his GEA had a hand in all our transfers, the agents (read: his son) got a nice percentage on the transfers. Why do you think we bought Baiocco for 8 Million Euro?

well, one would say that Zlatan, Cappello, and Zebina were all three transfers made by Luciano..

well that's the whole difference between objective and direct responsibility. And again you've got to ask yourself who is "the club"? Who should have the intention of doing these illegal stuff? When Moggi did these things, he sure worked partly for himself and for the GEA, but he also...

well you don't work for the government do you? What if a police officer kills someone in his function. Could the govt be sued? probably. Same thing goes for corporations. They are responsible for everything that is done for them by their employees. But here we're entering Corporation...

again, my son, this only means lawyers are working on it. Of course they want to escape direct responsibility. The bad thing is that they look ready to accept objective responsibility, which could still lead us to serie B. Reading all these things, I'm more and more convinced that we'll...

no. This only means Moggi has lawyers, and that they're trying to find something to help him out of this mess

:P Yes my son, Berlusconi could bribe the judge. This is Italy and a man like Berlusconi can bribe anyone. However, one can hope that this trial will be conducted in all legality and fairness.

:dazed: Italy.... :rolleyes:

Not exactly the same shit as us. We may be demoted in serie C, stripped 2 scudettos and be docked points. Milan could be demoted in SerieB and be docked points There's a huge difference between SerieB, which would be bad, and serie C which would be a huge catastrophy and mean the end of Juve...

yes but not demoted:pint:

yeah, I don't really care about the past. Take scudetti if you want, you can only take numbers, the honour will stay in every Juventini heart. The future is more worrying though.

Well, it appears that Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani. Objective responsability...

sports.it gives a nice overview: Non c'è dubbio: per la Juventus ci sarà una mega stangata con ipotesi, concreta, di revoca di due scudetti, assegnazione all'ultimo posto in classifica nell'ultimo campionato e retrocessione in una Serie inferiore, probabilmente in C. Fiorentina e Lazio...

Who is "the club"? Moggi and Giraudo have been ruling our club for a decennia, taking all the big decisions. Don't be fooled by things like a 'president' or a 'board'. In any big company, it's he managers who rule everything. The board and the president have to approve these decisions, but...