The verdict - Calciopoli charges announced (34 Viewers)

Cronios · Jun 23, 2006

These moments of tension cant we avoid the political/racist issues between us?

Love and respect each other, :oops:

we are all Juventini, we are not the enemy,
we are not the ones responsible for this situation... :smoke:

bianconero · Jun 23, 2006

Cronios said:

It is our cathartic duty to face this moment, for the better or worse we shall see.

I would rather stand shoulder to shoulder with a decent Milan supporter, than a Juventus supporter that hold fascist creed.

Lets face the unexceptable face in these pages and together chase them out.

Seven · Jun 23, 2006

Espectro said:

Exactly. I'm not okay with cheating and getting away with it even if everyone else does so too. I feel betrayed as a fan and I want action to be undertaken against those that cheated on me.

jussiut · Jun 23, 2006

God damn it, I thought you get a warning for "derailing threads"? Five pages of absolute carbage doesn't seem to create any warnings but when you call Capello a certain name you'll get 4 warning points. Oh well, this "verdict" didn't reveal anything new so in that sense this thread is useless now but I would seriously want this forum to respect the guidelines it once created.

I also agree with bianconero that certain people's behaviour repulse me. I will never understand people who are not Juventus fans yet they still spend hours and hours at a time in a Juventus forum talking carbage but I don't care. What I do care however is that these individuals would be forced to accept the same rules than anyone else here even though they are buddies with all the regulars in the "what colour is your dog" thread.

Ok, venting is over.

IrishZebra · Jun 23, 2006

The club is alleged to have influenced crucial decisions in the footballing process.The key word be alleged.If the can't proove OJ guilty they can't proove Juve guilty.

If the glove don't fit you full'oshit.

Then again I just can't deal with reality,oh well :disagree:

Seven · Jun 23, 2006

ReBeL said:

Kudos to you for making the right decision :thumbs:

serfaraaz · Jun 23, 2006

Fans of the four big Italian clubs can now start to worry as yesterday they were indicted to the Disciplinary Commission for violation of Article 1 (general duties and obligations) and/or Article 6 (altering the result of a match or securing an advantage in the table with any means is considered sporting fraud. The clubs, its Directors and players have the duty to inform the authorities if they believe this is in progress) of the sporting justice code.

Juventus is the club that is risking most as they have violated both articles directly and Serie B or even Serie C is a big probability

serfaraaz · Jun 23, 2006

seven i know u feel betrayed but moggi and giraudo influenced refrees without informing club

CORVETTE · Jun 23, 2006

Hey .. don't leave the forum just for what that man said ..

i don't now why people just want the proplem's .. its a Sport forum for fun not for politic things

we all here as a Frinds ..

stay @ the forum ReBeL ..

Geof · Jun 23, 2006

serfaraaz said:

Who is "the club"?

Moggi and Giraudo have been ruling our club for a decennia, taking all the big decisions.

Don't be fooled by things like a 'president' or a 'board'. In any big company, it's he managers who rule everything. The board and the president have to approve these decisions, but most of the time they're clueless and just do as they're told to do by the managers.

And it's not like the board has to vote whether matches should be fixed or not :rolleyes:

One thing we don't hear about is the role of Bettega in the whole affair... Was the triade just a duo in the end? Was Bettega a clueless muppet?

Philipp00 · Jun 23, 2006

I just hope that we don`t go down to serie C. that would be a disaster.

Geof · Jun 23, 2006

sports.it gives a nice overview:

Non c'è dubbio: per la Juventus ci sarà una mega stangata con ipotesi, concreta, di revoca di due scudetti, assegnazione all'ultimo posto in classifica nell'ultimo campionato e retrocessione in una Serie inferiore, probabilmente in C.

Fiorentina e Lazio rischiano anche loro la B o la C, il Milan vacilla tra una forte penalizzazione da scontare nella classifica dello scorso anno e in quella di quest'anno e la retrocessione in B.

Ad essere stati violati, secondo il Procuratore Palazzi sono stati gli articoli 1, 2, 6 e 9 del codice sportivo.

L'articolo 1 parla di rispetto della probità e lealtà sportiva: la sua violazione comporta una penalizzazione in punti.

L'articolo 2 parla della responsabilità delle persone fisiche e delle società per le quali, in caso di attività illecita, c'è coinvolgimento fino a prova contraria.

L'articolo 6 parla di illecito sportivo il determinarsi del quale comporta la retrocessione in una serie inferiore.

L'articolo 9 comporta la responsabilità oggettiva delle società in caso di dirigenti o collaboratori esterni protagonisti di illecito.

JUVENTUS
Articoli violati: 2, 6 e 9 (responsabilità diretta)
Dirigenti: Moggi (artt.2 e 6), Giraudo (artt. 2 e 6)
Accusa: Atti diretti ad alterare lo svolgimento o il risultato delle partite: Lecce-Juve, Juve-Lazio, Bologna-Juve, Juve-Udinese
Responsabilità: diretta
Sanzione minima: Retrocessione in Serie B
Sanzione massima: Retrocessione in Serie C2
Sanzioni accessorie: Revoca degli scudetti 2004/2005 e 2005/2006

MILAN
Articoli violati: 2 e 6 (responsabilità oggettiva e diretta)
Dirigenti: Galliani (art.1), Meani (artt. 1 e 6)
Accusa: Atti diretti ad alterare il corretto svolgimento o il risultato della partita: Milan-Chievo
Responsabilità: oggettiva
Sanzione minima: penalizzazione di uno o più punti in classifica. Se inefficace la sanzione può essere applicata nella stagione che sta per partire.
Sanzione massima: retrocessione in Serie B

FIORENTINA
Articoli violati: 2 e 6 (responsabilità diretta)
Dirigenti: Andrea Della Valle (art. 6), Diego Della Valle (art. 6), Sandro Mencucci (art. 6)
Accusa: atti diretti ad alterare il corretto svolgimento o il risultato delle partite: Bologna-Fiorentina, Chievo-Fiorentina, Lazio-Fiorentina, Fiorentina-Atalanta, Lecce-Parma
Responsabilità: diretta e oggettiva
Sanzione minima: retrocessione in Serie B
Sanzione massima: retrocessione in Serie C2

LAZIO
Articoli violati: 2, 6 e 9 (responsabilità diretta e presunta)
Dirigenti: Claudio Lotito (art. 6)
Accusa: atti diretti ad alterare il corretto svolgimento o il risultato delle partite: Chievo-Lazio, Lazio-Parma, Bologna-Lazio, Lazio-Brescia
Responsabilità: Diretta e presunta
Sanzione minima: Retrocessione in Serie B
Sanzione massima: retrocessione in Serie C2

I seguenti arbitri rischiano la radiazione per la violazione dell'articolo 6: Bertini, De Santis, Dondarini, Messina, Paparesta, Rocchi, Rodomonti, Tagliaventi. I seguenti guardalinee rischiano la radiazione per la violazione dell'articolo 6: Babini, Puglisi. I seguenti dirigenti federali rischiano la radiazione per la violazione dell'articolo 6: Carraro, Mazzini, Ferri, Lanese, Bergamo, Pairetto. Hanno violato l'articolo 1: Mazzini, Lanese, Bergamo, Pairetto, Mazzei, Ingargiola.

____________________________________

Basically, if were found guilty of direct responsability (meaning that the club is responsible for it, not only Moggi and Giraudo) the minimum sentence is serie B and the maximum is serie C2. :scared:

On top of that, we'll probably have Scudetto's removed.

Not to be alarmist, but things look vey bad for us.

IMO our lawyers will focus on two points:

1> The Legality of the evidence: it seems that the phone tapping was at least partly illegal, and you can't convict someone without (legal) evidence.

2> The Direct responsability. I guess they'll try to say that Moggi and Giraudo did these things on own initiative, without any order or approval by the board. In this case, only 'objective responsability' can be held against us, which could lead to point docking and/or demotion to serie B.

Eddy · Jun 23, 2006

were screwed...

serfaraaz · Jun 23, 2006

geof what du u say about milan the telephone conversation where meani also influenced refrees appointment then why milan are facing less punishments than lazio and fiorentina

giovanotti · Jun 23, 2006

Geof said:

sports.it gives a nice overview:

JUVENTUS
Articoli violati: 2, 6 e 9 (responsabilità diretta)
Dirigenti: Moggi (artt.2 e 6), Giraudo (artt. 2 e 6)
Accusa: Atti diretti ad alterare lo svolgimento o il risultato delle partite: Lecce-Juve, Juve-Lazio, Bologna-Juve, Juve-Udinese
Responsabilità: diretta
Sanzione minima: Retrocessione in Serie B
Sanzione massima: Retrocessione in Serie C2
Sanzioni accessorie: Revoca degli scudetti 2004/2005 e 2005/2006

Damn!!!!What can I say.....

Geof · Jun 23, 2006

serfaraaz said:

Well, it appears that Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani.

Objective responsability is like the responsability of a dog who bites someone in the street.
Who's responsible in this case? The dog or his master?
The Law systems say that the dog has objective responsability, where the master has direct responsability.

In the case of Milan: Milan is the dog; Meani&Galliani are the masters.
Juve: Both the clubs and the people have direct responsability.

These are the charges, I hope our lawyers can prove the contrary.

Bjerknes · Jun 23, 2006

Hopefully they will simply take away the Scudetti and demote us to Serie B, as Serie C would really be the biggest disaster of all. I would rather have them take away 10 Scudetti before dropping us down to C2.

Geof · Jun 23, 2006

Andy said:

yeah, I don't really care about the past. Take scudetti if you want, you can only take numbers, the honour will stay in every Juventini heart.

The future is more worrying though.

Seven · Jun 23, 2006

Geof said:

Well, it appears that Milan is only charged with objective responsability. That means that the link between the club and the offences are not direct, in other words: Milan didn't have the intention of fixing matches. This intention is only put on Meani and Galliani.

Objective responsability is like the responsability of a dog who bites someone in the street.
Who's responsible in this case? The dog or his master?
The Law systems say that the dog has objective responsability, where the master has direct responsability.

In the case of Milan: Milan is the dog; Meani&Galliani are the masters.
Juve: Both the clubs and the people have direct responsability.

These are the charges, I hope our lawyers can prove the contrary.

So Milan will get shot?

.

Batigol · Jun 23, 2006

so, milan are in the same trouble we are in, the have violated articale 6 as well right. that is the best news i have read untill now.

The verdict - Calciopoli charges announced (34 Viewers)

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