we should go back to the 433 with 3 world class forwards
zlatan scored for sweden vs england tonight
zlatan scored for sweden vs england tonight
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Zlatan to Juve? (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Espectro
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Ian, all great strikers are nothing without great service. Henry doesnt take on 5 defenders before scoring a goal, nor does he take 30yard piledriver everytime. Sheva doesnt score wondergoal everytime like he did against Depor.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry.
.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry.
.
Sweden 1-0 England
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
Ian, all great strikers are nothing without great service. Henry doesnt take on 5 defenders before scoring a goal, nor does he take 30yard piledriver everytime. Sheva doesnt score wondergoal everytime like he did against Depor.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry..
Ian, all great strikers are nothing without great service. Henry doesnt take on 5 defenders before scoring a goal, nor does he take 30yard piledriver everytime. Sheva doesnt score wondergoal everytime like he did against Depor.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry.
.
Our midfield has bit shit this season....and we dont have that kind of foward.....so thats why we lost or draw every important match this season(adding to that a swiss-cheese defence,its a miracle this season isnt a disaster)
++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
Sweden 1-0 England
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
Sweden 1-0 England
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
Zlatan the KING
++ [ originally posted by Jun-hide ] ++
Ian, all great strikers are nothing without great service. Henry doesnt take on 5 defenders before scoring a goal, nor does he take 30yard piledriver everytime. Sheva doesnt score wondergoal everytime like he did against Depor.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry..
Ian, all great strikers are nothing without great service. Henry doesnt take on 5 defenders before scoring a goal, nor does he take 30yard piledriver everytime. Sheva doesnt score wondergoal everytime like he did against Depor.
Of course, Henry, Sheva, VN offer more variety of plays than Trezeguet but strikers' role is to score goals, and that is what Trezeguet does for the team at relatively low cost. Furthermore, for the sake of argument Trezeguet can only score when there is world class midfield, in his last season for Monaco he scored 24goals in a team that included Giuly, and Gallardo. Pretty impressive players but they are no Zizou or Pavel Nedved or Del Piero.
Of course you want player to be complete but those players are rare, and often costly. Using similar criteria would you guys consider Cordova useless because only thing he can do is man-marking?
To say likes of Henry are better is one thing and to say he is usuless is totally other. And no, Trezeguet is pretty good player, IMO.
However, I believe that his sale can be used to finance rebuilding this year.
Anyway I feel silly trying to make Trezeguet look as good as Henry.
.
good to see you back :thumb:
The goal he scored against AZ was world class, no doubt about it. Zlatan offers sooooooooooooooo much more than Trez; almost in every area except for natural finishing. But that natural finishing actually can be taught, and I think Ibra has the skill to learn it! I don't know why there are so many people who think Trez is the best possible striker for us. Zlatan offers so much more.
++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
Sweden 1-0 England
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
Sweden 1-0 England
54' Zlatan Ibrahimovic
So he can score without the backing of Van der Vaart and Sneijder too. Just thought I'd remind the heathens around here
Also, check out the goal he scored last weekend for Ajax: CLICK HERE
.Majed,
Nice to see you, been really busy last couple of months, got some time free time now.
.barkuss,
Yeah, I do agree with some your points.
. Henry and Sheva are two undoubtedly best strikers on earth., hence i feel sorry for myself trying to make Trez look as good as them just purely to convince some doubters here. However, I think blaming Trezeguet 4 our poor performance of the team this year is unfair (though you never explicitly said that). There are other reasons that I believe we need to 2 sort out first.
Here's something you might find interesting (now before you say "Who cares, that's just a stupid fantasy football game", I actually think that fantasy football points are a good indication of the effective work that a player does in a game".
SC stands for succesful crosses, FW stands for fouls won, CW = corners won and GIVE = giveaways. Before anyone says "Trez has the least giveaways out of all of them", allow me to say that this is because he doesn't get the ball very often. Trez has scored 14 goals, which is more than 9 out of 13 of the players who have more fantasy points than him. Doesn't this show to a certain extent the effectiveness Trez has on a game, and the amount that he imposes himself on it?
Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm.
btw I highlighted Del Piero's stats because I'm a little concerned at them
EDIT: I read DP's crosses as 0, my mistake. Still, 9 is nothing to write home about
SC stands for succesful crosses, FW stands for fouls won, CW = corners won and GIVE = giveaways. Before anyone says "Trez has the least giveaways out of all of them", allow me to say that this is because he doesn't get the ball very often. Trez has scored 14 goals, which is more than 9 out of 13 of the players who have more fantasy points than him. Doesn't this show to a certain extent the effectiveness Trez has on a game, and the amount that he imposes himself on it?
Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm.
btw I highlighted Del Piero's stats because I'm a little concerned at them
EDIT: I read DP's crosses as 0, my mistake. Still, 9 is nothing to write home about
Good post Graham, for actually backing statement with some evidence unlike me.. However, we have to agree to disagree this time, though I now know you stand by what you believe in!.
1) You have explicitly said that, "
"Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm". .
However it does matter, IMO, while I dont know how they exactly calculate players ratings in fantasy game, it is pretty sure to me that they didnt give enough weight to goal scoring aspect. This means, fistly, philosophically fantasy game isnt the best unit of measurement because it is based on subjective criteria, i.e. giving weights (Though Kuhn's followers would argue otherwise that there is no such thing as objectivity). Secondly, I believe actual weight assignment in this particular game is wrong.
Now having analyzed the data here are some of interesting "facts(?!)" that I have found:
1) Fantasy game depends on overall stats than per game, which means more games that higher points you will likely to gain. Bazzani, for example, played 6games more than Trezeguet hence it is only likely that he should have recorded more number of fouls earned, goals, assist and etc. than Trezeguet.
2) I made a cross-comparison with Flachi who played similar number of games played and have simialr points: and found that a- Trezeguet scored heck of more goals than him b-Flachi has done plenty of more fouls earned, sc, and etc. Which confirms many belief here that Trezeguet is one-dimensional player but just as importantly the game is clearly biased towards segunda punta and does not assign enough point to the amount of goals scored. My conjecture is that because they had to create rating system that measures the performance of both segunda punta and striker they had to balance the weight. Is such critiera adeqate for measuring strikers performance?
Anyway, I do admit that this fantasy data more or less confirms your major argument that Trezeguet is one dimensional player with certain effectiveness.. And that likes of Sheva lives in a different world.
On the other hand, now I am more convinced that though Trezeguet is a one-dimensional player, he is probably best finishing striker circulating around the earth. Good specialist in football, IMO, is a star but just not a superstar
. However, we have to agree to disagree this time, though I now know you stand by what you believe in!.1) You have explicitly said that, "
"Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm". .
However it does matter, IMO, while I dont know how they exactly calculate players ratings in fantasy game, it is pretty sure to me that they didnt give enough weight to goal scoring aspect. This means, fistly, philosophically fantasy game isnt the best unit of measurement because it is based on subjective criteria, i.e. giving weights (Though Kuhn's followers would argue otherwise that there is no such thing as objectivity
). Secondly, I believe actual weight assignment in this particular game is wrong.Now having analyzed the data here are some of interesting "facts(?!)" that I have found:
1) Fantasy game depends on overall stats than per game, which means more games that higher points you will likely to gain. Bazzani, for example, played 6games more than Trezeguet hence it is only likely that he should have recorded more number of fouls earned, goals, assist and etc. than Trezeguet.
2) I made a cross-comparison with Flachi who played similar number of games played and have simialr points: and found that a- Trezeguet scored heck of more goals than him b-Flachi has done plenty of more fouls earned, sc, and etc. Which confirms many belief here that Trezeguet is one-dimensional player but just as importantly the game is clearly biased towards segunda punta and does not assign enough point to the amount of goals scored. My conjecture is that because they had to create rating system that measures the performance of both segunda punta and striker they had to balance the weight. Is such critiera adeqate for measuring strikers performance?
Anyway, I do admit that this fantasy data more or less confirms your major argument that Trezeguet is one dimensional player with certain effectiveness.
. And that likes of Sheva lives in a different world.On the other hand, now I am more convinced that though Trezeguet is a one-dimensional player, he is probably best finishing striker circulating around the earth. Good specialist in football, IMO, is a star but just not a superstar
++ [ originally posted by Graham ] ++
Here's something you might find interesting (now before you say "Who cares, that's just a stupid fantasy football game", I actually think that fantasy football points are a good indication of the effective work that a player does in a game".
SC stands for succesful crosses, FW stands for fouls won, CW = corners won and GIVE = giveaways. Before anyone says "Trez has the least giveaways out of all of them", allow me to say that this is because he doesn't get the ball very often. Trez has scored 14 goals, which is more than 9 out of 13 of the players who have more fantasy points than him. Doesn't this show to a certain extent the effectiveness Trez has on a game, and the amount that he imposes himself on it?
Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm.
btw I highlighted Del Piero's stats because I'm a little concerned at them
EDIT: I read DP's crosses as 0, my mistake. Still, 9 is nothing to write home about
Here's something you might find interesting (now before you say "Who cares, that's just a stupid fantasy football game", I actually think that fantasy football points are a good indication of the effective work that a player does in a game".
SC stands for succesful crosses, FW stands for fouls won, CW = corners won and GIVE = giveaways. Before anyone says "Trez has the least giveaways out of all of them", allow me to say that this is because he doesn't get the ball very often. Trez has scored 14 goals, which is more than 9 out of 13 of the players who have more fantasy points than him. Doesn't this show to a certain extent the effectiveness Trez has on a game, and the amount that he imposes himself on it?
Please don't bring the "but goals are all that matters argument", i'm talking specifically about involvement in play atm.
btw I highlighted Del Piero's stats because I'm a little concerned at them
EDIT: I read DP's crosses as 0, my mistake. Still, 9 is nothing to write home about
Juve had a look-to person in Lotti's era with Zidane. One would have thought the next coach would have at least tried to wean the team off that dependence but unfortunately, Nedved came in. In between those 2, most get to enjoy their favourite pastime with whipping boy, DP.
Why play Trez as a lone striker? Why are his "supporting" cast almost always half a mile away? Why do our guys have to stop, look around, think and then decide what to do more often than not even after doing some good work themselves? Why do players like DP have to drop back in midfield, out wide half the time to fetch the ball forward? Why can't the team hold possession for nuts without embarassing themselves? And more relevant to the subject at hand, when you're constantly being marked dead by at least 2 men almost all the time without any help, what kind of involvement are you talking about? Involvement isn't only about 1 player and the sad fact is that the guys out there (esp up there) aren't helping each other out like a cohesive unit. There's a reason why you're called a striker and you have no business messing about doing anything else if you can't even fulfill your primary function. Could it be possible that the striker, the LONE striker, had been instructed to play the role we see? I don't why Sheva and Henry are brought in when the context is different.
Why does Juve have to go out and get Zlatan et al to fix a deficiency that's not of Trez's making? To cover for Tach perhaps, plug holes in a flawed system and basically make-up/pay for faults that aren't his own? That, while the problem could be fixed at its roots at getting people who do their jobs properly and finding ways to bring out the best of what's available. If Juve is able to get even 70% out of the current bunch, they have NOTHING to be envious of anyone. Unfortunately, it seems like the team is closer to becoming an Inter in management after having already accomplished that feat on the pitch.
Pretty good post slack,
.
Made a strong case for why Trezeguet has to be kept.
However, I do think money we can receive from Trezeguet could be used to strenghten the team in other areas especially defence.
Furthermore, we made a loss last year, and if anything we need to cut our wage bill. Trezeguet wants a rise, though quite reasonable given his contribution to the team, I think we can get cheaper albeit a bit more risky player.
As for Imbrahimovic coming here to replace Trezeguet, hell no!
.Made a strong case for why Trezeguet has to be kept.
However, I do think money we can receive from Trezeguet could be used to strenghten the team in other areas especially defence.
Furthermore, we made a loss last year, and if anything we need to cut our wage bill. Trezeguet wants a rise, though quite reasonable given his contribution to the team, I think we can get cheaper albeit a bit more risky player.
As for Imbrahimovic coming here to replace Trezeguet, hell no!
i am no objection to selling Trezeguet....provided we have a quality replacement... but at the moment he dont have a substitute.. selling him now would mean we have to buy 2 player in the same position , and starter and one reserve, which dont happen very much at juventus.. plus we dont know the starter will be as effective as Trezeguet.. at the moment it is the best if we on buy a subtitue for Trezeguet next season and let him adapt slowly.. if he can win the place from trezeguet, like what he did to inzaghi, then it is safe to sell Trezeguet..
although i have to say trezeguet is a gem at what he do.. why search outside when we already have what we need inside... beside playing with such a low contract by his standard already show how much loyalty and humility he has...i beginning to like this guy..
although i have to say trezeguet is a gem at what he do.. why search outside when we already have what we need inside... beside playing with such a low contract by his standard already show how much loyalty and humility he has...i beginning to like this guy..
hey people why is everyone talking about zlatan as a replacement for trezeguet(zlatan scored only ten goals so far in a league that all matches finish 7-0 or more and trezeguet scored 14 goals although he was injured)...i agree with everyone who thinks trezeguet is on of the best players in his postion...it is not fair to compare him with henry or ronaldo...they have copletely different roles it is as if we compare him to nesta or buffon!!!!
Trezeguet is a kind of player the coach keeps on the field so he can make the defenders busy..he is a big threat and defenders know that thats why in most of his matches two player will be busy marking him..that is why he doesnt show most of the time...the benefit we get is that in this case del piero and other players will not be marked and can score(getting cavenaghi in addition to keeping trezeguet is a smart move).......also,kezman is better than zlatan
Trezeguet is a kind of player the coach keeps on the field so he can make the defenders busy..he is a big threat and defenders know that thats why in most of his matches two player will be busy marking him..that is why he doesnt show most of the time...the benefit we get is that in this case del piero and other players will not be marked and can score(getting cavenaghi in addition to keeping trezeguet is a smart move).......also,kezman is better than zlatan
Are we watching the same team? Is that the same Trez wer talking about?
First of all.....Del Piero is the man who drags away 2 def. and than Trez may score. Nobody doubles trez cuz theres no need for that....he can do nothing even on 1:1. Better teams solved problem with Juve.....cut out Nedved & Zamb....and you have won. Try to cut-out midfield in Milan,Sheva will rip your ass....that goes also for Henry in Arse,Ronaldo or Raul in Madrid(
no body can cut out their midfield).All Im saying that I would like to see all-round players instead one-dimensional(that goes for midfield too) cuz all round game is the thing that Makes Milan biggest in the world now(well,as I remembre Boca is WC
)