Your expectations on Juve so far (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
I honestly thought we'd struggle more in the CL; Coppa Italia we've only played one match, so its hard to really give credit on that, though the one match we played was the best of 09 so far. Serie A, i thought we'd be around 2nd or 3rd, though i thought we would not struggle as much against the mid-table clubs as much as we did so far, so my vote would be a 7
Damn, now Snoop will think i'm picking on him, because i'm quoting only his posts 
We played only one single match in Coppa Italia. How come you think we're doing great there?
With this i disagree.
While the stats make our defense look much much better than it is in reality, the team, and here we must include the defense without giving all the credits to Sissoko, defended very well on most of the matches. There were times when our opponents couldn't even come close to our goal.
But the main problems started after New Year. Not only the last two matches. We defended bad against Fiorentina, Lazio and even Siena, and here the stats lie. We didn't deserve to concede only 1 goal on these 3 matches.
The defending after New Year is much worse than the defending before that
On this we almost completely agree.
We can't do that all the time. At least this Juve team can't do it.
It requires extra motivation. Inter fans would also like Inter to play the way they did against us. Milan fans would like their team to play like they played against Inter. Derby's bring more than 100% out of the players.
Considering our injuries and lack of replacements, if we played all the matches the way we played against Milan, our players would have been dead by now.
We played only one single match in Coppa Italia. How come you think we're doing great there?
With this i disagree.
While the stats make our defense look much much better than it is in reality, the team, and here we must include the defense without giving all the credits to Sissoko, defended very well on most of the matches. There were times when our opponents couldn't even come close to our goal.
But the main problems started after New Year. Not only the last two matches. We defended bad against Fiorentina, Lazio and even Siena, and here the stats lie. We didn't deserve to concede only 1 goal on these 3 matches.
The defending after New Year is much worse than the defending before that
On this we almost completely agree.
We can't do that all the time. At least this Juve team can't do it.
It requires extra motivation. Inter fans would also like Inter to play the way they did against us. Milan fans would like their team to play like they played against Inter. Derby's bring more than 100% out of the players.
Considering our injuries and lack of replacements, if we played all the matches the way we played against Milan, our players would have been dead by now.
Damn, now Snoop will think i'm picking on him, because i'm quoting only his posts
We played only one single match in Coppa Italia. How come you think we're doing great there?
We played only one single match in Coppa Italia. How come you think we're doing great there?
Like you said, we disagree here. I remember well how lucky we were in some matches, at the times where we were "great" statistic wise, we were doing terrible mistakes, but our opponents were wasting chances after other, I remember very well Swag also agreed with me then, when everyone were celebrating the good results, we were worried about the defense. Just like you said we didn't deserve to concede 1 goal in those three matches, there were times we deserved to concede loads of goals but we didn't concede, I don't/can't rely on statistics Alen, statistically we look awesome, but our form and performance is worrying me a lot, since long time ago..
whoa!! at last.. j/k
maybe, but then again this team is build on physical qualities of the players we have, we play with two defensive midfielders, we have monsters like Sissoko, Marchisio and Poulsen, we have a 35 year old man that keeps running until 90th minute, yeah Nedved. Not to forget Molinaro who is physically never gets tired, then why not use pressure? what is the point of having two physically strong midfielders? A lot of teams do that, why we don't? We don't rely on creative players, we don't buy those, so what is our exact plans or tactics, to put 11 players and expect Del Piero to do everything alone by himself, and score a freekick or a penalty? that I fail to understand..
Results: 7
Performance: 5
Tactics: 2
That's what I have to say regarding that. Tactics deserve a two because as I said in another thread, you can't expect a garbage truck crew to watch over a nuclear reactor. Wrong personnel, wrong positions.
Currently, we have already seen a meltdown, but hopefully the contamination will not spread. If so, Giovinco will really become a cancer boy..
Performance: 5
Tactics: 2
That's what I have to say regarding that. Tactics deserve a two because as I said in another thread, you can't expect a garbage truck crew to watch over a nuclear reactor. Wrong personnel, wrong positions.
Currently, we have already seen a meltdown, but hopefully the contamination will not spread. If so, Giovinco will really become a cancer boy..
We both watch the matches, so probably we saw things differently, or our expectations were different.
I know you don't want to rely on stats, but before the last two matches, not only that we conceded less goals then any other team, but we also allowed less shots on our goal than any other team (less shots by far).
After 19 rounds we allowed 56 shots on our goal, while Inter allowed 79 and Milan 94.
Don't you think this is too much to be coincidence? Were we really that lucky?
You could say that we didn't deserve to have the best defense (regarding conceded goals) but is it possible that at the same time we allowed by far less shots on our goal than any other team?
And not only in serie A. In CL we also conceded only 3 goals (the best in CL) and only ManUtd allowed less goals on their goal than we did. That's 2nd out of 32 teams.
I do think that as a unit we defended better than any other team in Italy and better than most of the teams in Europe.
We strongly disagree on this, but i do agree with you that the lack of individual quality in defense was always a problem that was going to cost us sooner or later.
I know you don't want to rely on stats, but before the last two matches, not only that we conceded less goals then any other team, but we also allowed less shots on our goal than any other team (less shots by far).
After 19 rounds we allowed 56 shots on our goal, while Inter allowed 79 and Milan 94.
Don't you think this is too much to be coincidence? Were we really that lucky?
You could say that we didn't deserve to have the best defense (regarding conceded goals) but is it possible that at the same time we allowed by far less shots on our goal than any other team?
And not only in serie A. In CL we also conceded only 3 goals (the best in CL) and only ManUtd allowed less goals on their goal than we did. That's 2nd out of 32 teams.
I do think that as a unit we defended better than any other team in Italy and better than most of the teams in Europe.
We strongly disagree on this, but i do agree with you that the lack of individual quality in defense was always a problem that was going to cost us sooner or later.
Like I told you, these numbers mean nothing to me, I don't want to discuss on this, I don't like comparing teams or players and specially statistically. Inter is not a perfect example, neither is Milan. Yeah, I know they are the leaders and ahead of us. One who choked in CL, and ended up 2nd in the easiest group, who also receive one hell of favors in the league, the other who plays in UEFA, and receive even more favors than the other in Serie A. We also do receive a lot of favors in the league (I know you won't deny that neither).
As for CL, yes I am happy that we passed the group that has Zenit and Real Madird. Statistically that was worrying no? Yeah I was worried too, but then again, We saw what was Real Madrid this year, they are 12 points behind Barcelona now, and they were even in worse form then. Zenit, yeah they fucked up big time, I remember they were 10th in the league then, I don't know where they finished the league recently.. and the other one is Bate, the team that played their first ever CL, and we had tough times against them.
I am not giving excuses here, you can check my posts everywhere, I gave the credit of ending first in that group, and I am as much as you delighted and proud, and I will even be more than satisfied even if we lose to Chelsea. But facts are facts Alen, we did good job, but let's not exaggerate everything.
We discussed this before, and I am not in a disagreement with you at all, you agree with me that our defenders are not so quality individually, but how could you not accept that we paid the costs of that a lot? we did, and we are still paying. Some matches we were lucky not to end them worse,no offense but I don't know how they count these crappy numbers, that means nothing, it doesn't make any sense for me to rely on these numbers. I mean I am sure that Inter's defense weren't broken as much as ours, if you include shots that were taken from 1000 kilometers, then maybe this number make sense. I can't even comment on numbers like these, because it doesn't convince me anything, these numbers can't tell me which ones were more dangerous, or close to goals.
I watched almost every Juventus matches, and I remember a lot of time when our defense was like a circus, that what matters me to be honest, we need to work on that, that's my point.
Marchisio and Sissoko are great, I always say that, and they have huge part of role in our defensive duty, no we don't disagree here, what I am saying, what we did against Milan defensively was awesome, and we could do it even more, if we had other players in defense, which we agree on.. and when we don't do that pressing, just like the last 4? 5? matches, then we start suffering, that's my whole point.
As for CL, yes I am happy that we passed the group that has Zenit and Real Madird. Statistically that was worrying no? Yeah I was worried too, but then again, We saw what was Real Madrid this year, they are 12 points behind Barcelona now, and they were even in worse form then. Zenit, yeah they fucked up big time, I remember they were 10th in the league then, I don't know where they finished the league recently.. and the other one is Bate, the team that played their first ever CL, and we had tough times against them.
I am not giving excuses here, you can check my posts everywhere, I gave the credit of ending first in that group, and I am as much as you delighted and proud, and I will even be more than satisfied even if we lose to Chelsea. But facts are facts Alen, we did good job, but let's not exaggerate everything.
We discussed this before, and I am not in a disagreement with you at all, you agree with me that our defenders are not so quality individually, but how could you not accept that we paid the costs of that a lot? we did, and we are still paying. Some matches we were lucky not to end them worse,no offense but I don't know how they count these crappy numbers, that means nothing, it doesn't make any sense for me to rely on these numbers. I mean I am sure that Inter's defense weren't broken as much as ours, if you include shots that were taken from 1000 kilometers, then maybe this number make sense. I can't even comment on numbers like these, because it doesn't convince me anything, these numbers can't tell me which ones were more dangerous, or close to goals.
I watched almost every Juventus matches, and I remember a lot of time when our defense was like a circus, that what matters me to be honest, we need to work on that, that's my point.
Marchisio and Sissoko are great, I always say that, and they have huge part of role in our defensive duty, no we don't disagree here, what I am saying, what we did against Milan defensively was awesome, and we could do it even more, if we had other players in defense, which we agree on.. and when we don't do that pressing, just like the last 4? 5? matches, then we start suffering, that's my whole point.
I expect Juventus (players and managment) to finally come to their sences and seriosly discuss the issues in the team and try to solve them. If the motivation is the problem then Del Piero and Ranieri should do something. If the quality of the players is the problem then they should sit down emidietly and discuss for future signings. The point is that there is something wrong in the team right now ( i think its the motivation and DP and Ranieri are to blame) and everyone should start and look what that is and solve it before its too late.