Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2014-15) (31 Viewers)

[Fint]

I aim to please.

That gif is pretty disturbing

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[B3N]

you only see the defensive like very high when we have control over the game. this will not happen in the champions league because teams we will press you and they will retain possession as well. This is the reason why in serie A we dominate even using a 352 but in Europe where most teams give their 100%, we lack. I mean 1 win 2 losses and 3 draws is not good enough for any team. especially juventus; 433 is the move forward and with the likes of vidal and pogba in midfield the quality of the winger does not have to be world class.

well no shit raki, you expect us to keep the ball for 90mins? we were talking about our pressing game, and I said we have the ability to do so. just look up our midfielders stats of interception and break plays each game. if we choose to slow down or invite the opposition it's a different matter.
what do you mean 100% in cl, what's the percentage in serie a?
I honestly couldn't careless on how Conte decides to line-up the players, as long as we're getting the results.

 

[Red]

I aim to please.

That gif is pretty disturbing

Indeed.

A Raki post that didn't mention 4-3-3?

Now I don't know what to believe.

Nothing is certain in this world.

 

[j0ker]

well no shit raki, you expect us to keep the ball for 90mins? we were talking about our pressing game, and I said we have the ability to do so. just look up our midfielders stats of interception and break plays each game. if we choose to slow down or invite the opposition it's a different matter.
what do you mean 100% in cl, what's the percentage in serie a?
I honestly couldn't careless on how Conte decides to line-up the players, as long as we're getting the results.

Why are you even debating with him

 

[Enron]

you only see the defensive like very high when we have control over the game. this will not happen in the champions league because teams we will press you and they will retain possession as well. This is the reason why in serie A we dominate even using a 352 but in Europe where most teams give their 100%, we lack. I mean 1 win 2 losses and 3 draws is not good enough for any team. especially juventus; 433 is the move forward and with the likes of vidal and pogba in midfield the quality of the winger does not have to be world class.

You don't play a high line against every team, ask AVB. Whether your defensive line is high or deep really doesn't effect the amount of pressure you impose on the opponent.

- - - Updated - - -

well no shit raki, you expect us to keep the ball for 90mins? we were talking about our pressing game, and I said we have the ability to do so. just look up our midfielders stats of interception and break plays each game. if we choose to slow down or invite the opposition it's a different matter.
what do you mean 100% in cl, what's the percentage in serie a?
I honestly couldn't careless on how Conte decides to line-up the players, as long as we're getting the results.

He's mad because Conte doesn't hold down sprint like he does in FIFA.

 

[MikeM]

3-5-2 has no ability to counter attack. Huge problem in Europe.

We have 1 win in our last 8 CL games...

 

[Enron]

3-5-2 has no ability to counter attack. Huge problem in Europe.

We have 1 win in our last 8 CL games...

Yeah it does. Only problem is that Juve sucks at counters.

 

[rakib567]

well no $#@! raki, you expect us to keep the ball for 90mins? we were talking about our pressing game, and I said we have the ability to do so. just look up our midfielders stats of interception and break plays each game. if we choose to slow down or invite the opposition it's a different matter.
what do you mean 100% in cl, what's the percentage in serie a?
I honestly couldn't careless on how Conte decides to line-up the players, as long as we're getting the results.

with 352 we don't press the ball. we intercept the ball most of the time. when did u ever see us press the ball well just like athletico Madrid or Dortmund? never. This is my point, with 352 you can press the ball but not as effectively as other systems.

in the champions league any team using a 3 man attack can easily press our 3 man defence making a 3v3 situation. but most of all, when the opposition counterattack our 3 slow centre backs cannot keep up and this created a lot of problems especially in champions league.

for conte to get results easily and in a manner where the midfielders don't have to shift up and down the pitch to provide both cover for defence and attack, he needs a formation which is focused more on attack and defence.

 

[Red]

3-5-2 has no ability to counter attack.

That's far more about tactics and personnel than system.

 

[rakib567]

You don't play a high line against every team, ask AVB. Whether your defensive line is high or deep really doesn't effect the amount of pressure you impose on the opponent.
.

I was quoting B3N.

 

[B3N]

Why are you even debating with him

He's a passionate dude, I know he's too keen on his 4-3-3, I won't probably get much into it.

Yeah it does. Only problem is that Juve sucks at counters.

That's far more about tactics and personnel than system.

I believe that's the case Mike, otherwise Mazzarri might as well give up on his coaching. That'd be nice tho.

with 352 we don't press the ball. we intercept the ball most of the time. when did u ever see us press the ball well just like athletico Madrid or Dortmund? never. This is my point, with 352 you can press the ball but not as effectively as other systems.

in the champions league any team using a 3 man attack can easily press our 3 man defence making a 3v3 situation. but most of all, when the opposition counterattack our 3 slow centre backs cannot keep up and this created a lot of problems especially in champions league.

for conte to get results easily and in a manner where the midfielders don't have to shift up and down the pitch to provide both cover for defence and attack, he needs a formation which is focused more on attack and defence.

with whatever formation we play you can not expect us to see each game through with opposition creating 0 chances. Like I already explained if the occasional 3v3 prove to be too much for our defence, then we deal with it differently. our problems this season in cl was not finishing our attacks, hence getting the results.

and the bolded part is Conte's idea of how to play. that was the case even in his first season. if it means more running for midfielders, then so be it.

 

[Nzoric]

You don't play a high line against every team, ask AVB. Whether your defensive line is high or deep really doesn't effect the amount of pressure you impose on the opponent.

Oh course it does. How well you execute that pressure determines if your high defensive line will be exposed or simply be able to collect lose balls and starting quick counters the other way.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Any formation can counter, the problem is in a 3-5-2 we would need to field counter attacking players, namely some pacey Wingers who can be direct

Unfortunately, to do that we'd need to use attack-minded wingbacks and that's not an option really.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Lol @ Rakib copying and pasting quotes from other football sites.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Any formation can counter, the problem is in a 3-5-2 we would need to field counter attacking players, namely some pacey Wingers who can be direct

Unfortunately, to do that we'd need to use attack-minded wingbacks and that's not an option really.

Asamoah and Licht are very attack minded. I'd say our formation at times looks more like a 3-3-4 than 3-5-2. I don't get this myth about them being defensive oriented players.

 

[Red]

Except at the point you are going to be launching the counter-attack, you have probably only just won the ball.

Juve's wingbacks will, in all probability, be pretty deep at that point.

 

[MikeM]

Even an attack-minded wingback (which is basically a winger being played out of position which is retarded to begin with) will have trouble countering from a 3-5-2 because against a tough opponent they will find themselves in line with the CBs. It's the same thing as asking your RB and LB to counter in a 4-3-3.

When a 3-5-2 encounters a team with wingers, your wingbacks have to drop as deep as your opponents wingers will advance. It's not like your wingbacks can let the wingers get in behind them and allow a CB to drift out wide to pick them up. If you sit deep with a 3-5-2, it is absolutely a 5-3-2.

The 3-5-2 teams that you see countering are *actually* more like 3-4-1-2 teams. For example, Hamsik, Cavani, Lavezzi of good ol' Napoli. Their 3 CMs are in the reverse order of ours, where we have a regista and they have a trequartista.

And maybe I should clarify my statement to make it less absolute. Of course any formation can counter. For example, Torino can counter with just their 2 strikers against mediocre Serie A teams.

What really matters is if you can count on just your 2 strikers to counter against Real, Barca, Bayern, which I believe you absolutely cannot.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Nah I get what you're saying, it's pretty much right all the way through

To gear our 3-5-2 up for counters we would have to compromise the team by fielding the wrong type of players

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't help that our team on the whole is pretty sluggish and we have nobody who can really consistently take their man on.

 

[Enron]

Oh course it does. How well you execute that pressure determines if your high defensive line will be exposed or simply be able to collect lose balls and starting quick counters the other way.

Different teams press different areas of the pitch, usually based on their personnel. Depth of the back line only determines where the pressure can be applied. Not the amount or success of the pressure.

Some teams want to press and start quick counters. But others want to press and keep the ball. It just depends on the team.

- - - Updated - - -

Even an attack-minded wingback (which is basically a winger being played out of position which is retarded to begin with) will have trouble countering from a 3-5-2 because against a tough opponent they will find themselves in line with the CBs. It's the same thing as asking your RB and LB to counter in a 4-3-3.

When a 3-5-2 encounters a team with wingers, your wingbacks have to drop as deep as your opponents wingers will advance. It's not like your wingbacks can let the wingers get in behind them and allow a CB to drift out wide to pick them up. If you sit deep with a 3-5-2, it is absolutely a 5-3-2.

The 3-5-2 teams that you see countering are *actually* more like 3-4-1-2 teams. For example, Hamsik, Cavani, Lavezzi of good ol' Napoli. Their 3 CMs are in the reverse order of ours, where we have a regista and they have a trequartista.

And maybe I should clarify my statement to make it less absolute. Of course any formation can counter. For example, Torino can counter with just their 2 strikers against mediocre Serie A teams.

What really matters is if you can count on just your 2 strikers to counter against Real, Barca, Bayern, which I believe you absolutely cannot.

Counters out of a 3-5-2 are usually started by the center midfielders, especially when Juve plays. It's generally Pogba making the move forward. Unfortunately, usually one of 2 things happen. He doesn't see the forwards or the forwards don't help.

Even in the 4-3-3 the central midfielders start most of the counters. For Liverpool, Henderson starts most of the counters, unless the chance is created by one of our forwards. Same with teams like Chelsea or Bayern. The difference is how the counters finish. Meaning that the right type of players are in position to make things happen. Tevez and Llorente aren't going to be great counter attacking players. A 4-3-3 won't change that.

 

[rakib567]

with whatever formation we play you can not expect us to see each game through with opposition creating 0 chances. Like I already explained if the occasional 3v3 prove to be too much for our defence, then we deal with it differently. our problems this season in cl was not finishing our attacks, hence getting the results.

and the bolded part is Conte's idea of how to play. that was the case even in his first season. if it means more running for midfielders, then so be it.

we have a world class midfield but it doesn't mean that they have to do all of the work. for example vidal has the job to cover defensive midfield, help the wingbacks, defend against overlapping fullbacks, help to shut down wingers (ie Ronaldo in Madrid game) plus help to attack ans support tevez and llorente. I think that this is too much for a midfielder even if he has the stamina of high level. a pair of wingers will help vidal in doing his job plus will open up the defence which will help both vidal and pogba to score more goals


352

Defensive

litchsteiner barzagli bonucci chielini asamoah
-------------vidal pirlo pogba
--------------tevez llorente

Attacking

-----------bonucci
barzagli ------------chielini
-------------pirlo

Litc Vidal ---------Pogba Asa
--------Tevez Llorente



433

Defensive

Litch Barzagli Chiellini Asa
RW Vidal Pirlo Pogba LW
--------Llorente

Attacking

----Barzagli --------Chiellini
---------------Pirlo
Litch ---Vidal ------Pogba-----Asa
-------RW---Llorente---LW



433 is a lot more aggressive, less work for box to box midfielders, overlapping fullbacks to stretch the defence. overall better.