Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2014-15) (9 Viewers)

[italiacalcio10]

Griezmann nor Draxler would come for 30m. and Pirlo should not play ina two man midfield.

Yeah Pirlo is probably the worst player for a 4-2-3-1, dual #6s need to be adequate defensively. As for Griezmann and Draxler, I agree, but I don't think it would be >40 million. I think his estimate for Rodriguez was a bit high. He is a great player for his position, but he is still a fullback.

Either way, I'm not sure about Draxler being the best choice. His potential is high but he could easily disappoint and he is priced to his potential, rather than his expected value. I'd rather look at players like Di Maria, Arda Turan, Kroos, Sanchez, Coentrao, Cavani, Shaqiri or Mandzukic.

Other than Turan who will likely come cheaper due to the fact that he flies under the radar vs. guys like Diego Costa, while being tactically versatile, the other players come from value destroyers. These teams rotate their teams unnecessarily because the grass is always greener on the other side. Di Maria would easily be sacrificed for Pogba, while Bayern may sell Kroos to purchase a guy like Draxler - ultimately these teams are not looking to cash in, but rather are looking to sell in order to partially fund their other purchases. Many of these player are also undervalued due to club depth.

For example, in an instant, I would sell Pogba along with Vuc, Quagliarella, and other replaceable pieces in order to fund purchases of 3/4 of these players. Also, another thing to avoid is purchasing these players with cash. If you go to Real Madrid and say "We want Di Maria", they will give you a stupid price, however, if you request payment for a guy like Pogba partially with player rights, you will still likely get your premium for Pogba, while getting a more market value price for the players you want to acquire.

Let's say you can do Pogba (€80MM) for Di Maria (€30-35MM), Coentrao (€10-15MM) + €35MM . Chances are you'd probably pay €40MM-€45MM for Di Maria standalone or €20MM for Coentrao. If you can get them to undervalue their own players while overvaluing yours, thats ideal.

In a perfect world, you sell Pogba for €80, and the other marketable players (Quags, Vuc, etc) for €10, you get Di Maria and Coentrao (or equivalent) + cash, you end up with ~€45 million in excess transfer funds, plus lets say an €10 million cash injection, while allows you to go and acquire maybe Turan (€30MM) & Mandzukic (€25MM). I think in this current overpriced environment, the best way to do well is to use the market ruiners against themselves.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Lion]

Yeah Pirlo is probably the worst player for a 4-2-3-1, dual #6s need to be adequate defensively. As for Griezmann and Draxler, I agree, but I don't think it would be >40 million. I think his estimate for Rodriguez was a bit high. He is a great player for his position, but he is still a fullback.

Either way, I'm not sure about Draxler being the best choice. His potential is high but he could easily disappoint and he is priced to his potential, rather than his expected value. I'd rather look at players like Di Maria, Arda Turan, Kroos, Sanchez, Coentrao, Cavani, Shaqiri or Mandzukic.

Other than Turan who will likely come cheaper due to the fact that he flies under the radar vs. guys like Diego Costa, while being tactically versatile, the other players come from value destroyers. These teams rotate their teams unnecessarily because the grass is always greener on the other side. Di Maria would easily be sacrificed for Pogba, while Bayern may sell Kroos to purchase a guy like Draxler - ultimately these teams are not looking to cash in, but rather are looking to sell in order to partially fund their other purchases. Many of these player are also undervalued due to club depth.

For example, in an instant, I would sell Pogba along with Vuc, Quagliarella, and other replaceable pieces in order to fund purchases of 3/4 of these players. Also, another thing to avoid is purchasing these players with cash. If you go to Real Madrid and say "We want Di Maria", they will give you a stupid price, however, if you request payment for a guy like Pogba partially with player rights, you will still likely get your premium for Pogba, while getting a more market value price for the players you want to acquire.

Let's say you can do Pogba (€80MM) for Di Maria (€30-35MM), Coentrao (€10-15MM) + €35MM . Chances are you'd probably pay €40MM-€45MM for Di Maria standalone or €20MM for Coentrao. If you can get them to undervalue their own players while overvaluing yours, thats ideal.

In a perfect world, you sell Pogba for €80, and the other marketable players (Quags, Vuc, etc) for €10, you get Di Maria and Coentrao (or equivalent) + cash, you end up with ~€45 million in excess transfer funds, plus lets say an €10 million cash injection, while allows you to go and acquire maybe Turan (€30MM) & Mandzukic (€25MM). I think in this current overpriced environment, the best way to do well is to use the market ruiners against themselves.

Okay, this is getting ridiculous. First of all, Yeah Pirlo is probably the worst player for a 4-2-3-1, dual #6s need to be adequate defensively. As for Griezmann and Draxler, I agree, but I don't think it would be >40 million. I think his estimate for Rodriguez was a bit high. He is a great player for his position, but he is still a fullback.

Either way, I'm not sure about Draxler being the best choice. His potential is high but he could easily disappoint and he is priced to his potential, rather than his expected value. I'd rather look at players like Di Maria, Arda Turan, Kroos, Sanchez, Coentrao, Cavani, Shaqiri or Mandzukic.

Other than Turan who will likely come cheaper due to the fact that he flies under the radar vs. guys like Diego Costa, while being tactically versatile, the other players come from value destroyers. These teams rotate their teams unnecessarily because the grass is always greener on the other side. Di Maria would easily be sacrificed for Pogba, while Bayern may sell Kroos to purchase a guy like Draxler - ultimately these teams are not looking to cash in, but rather are looking to sell in order to partially fund their other purchases. Many of these player are also undervalued due to club depth.

For example, in an instant, I would sell Pogba along with Vuc, Quagliarella, and other replaceable pieces in order to fund purchases of 3/4 of these players. Also, another thing to avoid is purchasing these players with cash. If you go to Real Madrid and say "We want Di Maria", they will give you a stupid price, however, if you request payment for a guy like Pogba partially with player rights, you will still likely get your premium for Pogba, while getting a more market value price for the players you want to acquire.

Let's say you can do Pogba (€80MM) for Di Maria (€30-35MM), Coentrao (€10-15MM) + €35MM . Chances are you'd probably pay €40MM-€45MM for Di Maria standalone or €20MM for Coentrao. If you can get them to undervalue their own players while overvaluing yours, thats ideal.

In a perfect world, you sell Pogba for €80, and the other marketable players (Quags, Vuc, etc) for €10, you get Di Maria and Coentrao (or equivalent) + cash, you end up with ~€45 million in excess transfer funds, plus lets say an €10 million cash injection, while allows you to go and acquire maybe Turan (€30MM) & Mandzukic (€25MM). I think in this current overpriced environment, the best way to do well is to use the market ruiners against themselves.

 

[italiacalcio10]

How about we stop selling pogba

I completely agree with selling him. If teams are willing to overpay, you sell, especially since the midfield is a position of strength. As I said in my previous post, if you use teams like PSG, Real Madrid, or Bayern's tendencies to overpay and need to sell current players simultaneously, you can create a ton of value. With teams like PSG, or Bayern, the grass is always greener and they will undervalue their current players (look at what Bayern sold Mario Gomez for) due to the need to generate funds, especially if included in a deal for a player who is part of huge bidding war. It will be amplified by the fact that by including those players in a direct swap, they directly reduce their cash obligation and find an immediate buyer without having to negotiate. If you sell Pogba and ask for Coentrao + Di Maria + $$$, and use the cash to add other pieces, you will do VERY well. Even if I'm a bit optimistic on the dollar amounts, the fact is that the concept makes a lot of sense.

Ultimately with Pogba, I think about it this way:
In 5 years are you more likely to be pissed because his fair value is 100 million and you were only able to get 80 million, or are you likely to be pissed because he is worth 30-40 million and you didn't sell him when you had the chance. Reaching the lofty potential that he has been labeled with is anything but a sure thing, and while he may attain that level, 80 million adequately compensates you for an elite central midfielder. Any down-side results in value creation.

Disclaimer: I work in portfolio management, so I'm trained to sell things when they are overvalued lol.

 

[PedroFlu]

Problem is, I think it's unrealistic to think that Di Maria will leave Real at his best moment to join a club who is still developing in Europe.
Kroos the same thing.
Arda I don't feel would leave Atletico, unless for Bayern/top English Clube.
We need to go after upcoming players like Shaqiri, Griezmann and Draxler.
Mandzukic would be interesting, but we'd had to sell Llorente.
Sanchez is a good idea. For around 30M Barca might let him go.

- - - Updated - - -

Point is: Try to keep Pogba as hard as you can.

IF he refuses any contract offer we make, then sell him now.

With 70M we can actually improve the team, specially if Asa is to be used in the mid and we get quality and fresh talent on the wings/ss.

 

[italiacalcio10]

Problem is, I think it's unrealistic to think that Di Maria will leave Real at his best moment to join a club who is still developing in Europe.
Kroos the same thing.
Arda I don't feel would leave Atletico, unless for Bayern/top English Clube.
We need to go after upcoming players like Shaqiri, Griezmann and Draxler.
Mandzukic would be interesting, but we'd had to sell Llorente.
Sanchez is a good idea. For around 30M Barca might let him go.

All those players will leave if they believe their starting positions are in jeopardy. I can say if Real Madrid gets Pogba, Di Maria may feel its a risk. He is already playing MF now that Bale took his spot on the right flank. I disagree on Turan, I think he'd leave in the right circumstance. Kroos IMO is similar to Di Maria where he'd potentially be shipped out if he feels he'd lose his starting spot, and with Bayern's depth in MF and Guardiola's continued efforts to 'shape' his team, he could elect to leave. I completely agree with Shaqiri because I believe Bayern will not overprice him to the extent that RS & Schalke would price the other two you mentioned. Ultimately though regardless of who you buy, I think you got to buy from the value destroyers who need to sell in order to continue their unnecessary cycling of their squads and avoid teams like Porto who are looking to sell at Astronomical prices.

 

[Lion]

sup rakib

@swag

 

[Enron]

If it's Rakib. He's banned for life.

 

[PowerNedved]

Stop thinking that if we get 70m for Pogba we can get 2-3 players for the same amount of money cuz that would make our squad wage rise to the clouds, just getting Sanchez, Nani and Coentrao would add 10m to our wage list, if we could afford that kind of wages we could have easily renewed Pogba long time ago

 

[Zacheryah]

If pogba was a winger, you'd all demand him to stay.


What peasants dont realise, is that such talented cm, is much more rare then some fancy winger

- - - Updated - - -

If we sell pogba, we will NOT buy any player over 25 mil.

So fucking tell me how we can exactly improve our team, considering we got a 25mil+ player on each position

 

[italiacalcio10]

That's definitely a fair point. You'd need to make sure that whichever players you'd buy, the outgoing players mostly offset the ones you are buying.

 

[zizinho]

If pogba was a winger, you'd all demand him to stay.


What peasants dont realise, is that such talented cm, is much more rare then some fancy winger

people need to stop writing "sell" and "Pogba" in the same sentence because nothing sugest we will sell him (except for shity rumours like for Vidal last season) if you know that all of Agnelli/Marotta/Conte say that he will stay you realise there is nothing to worry about.

 

[Zacheryah]

people need to stop writing "sell" and "Pogba" in the same sentence because nothing sugest we will sell him (except for shity rumours like for Vidal last season) if you know that all of Agnelli/Marotta/Conte say that he will stay you realise there is nothing to worry about.

Worst part is how they end with ludicrous 45 mil purchases

 

[PowerNedved]

I keep thinking Pogba will be placed as AMF, he wants to win Ballon D'Or and to do that he needs to score more goals and be more decisive in Juve's game, that would be a great incentive for his renewal

 

[italiacalcio10]

If pogba was a winger, you'd all demand him to stay.


What peasants dont realise, is that such talented cm, is much more rare then some fancy winger

- - - Updated - - -

If we sell pogba, we will NOT buy any player over 25 mil.

So $#@!ing tell me how we can exactly improve our team, considering we got a 25mil+ player on each position

For the first part, not all at all. For Tottenham, selling Bale was the right move, unfortunately the manner that the funds were redeployed were ineffective. For Napoli, selling Cavani was also the right move, Higuain + the cash received makes it more than worth it.

For the 2nd part, that is definitely probable given clear reluctance to pay up on transfer fees in recent years, however, I do think if the right offer for Pogba came along and management decided to make a business decision and sell, I do think they may accept a swap if the players + $$$ offered meant that value was being created. Thats just smart financial management.

 

[ZoSo]

Okay, this is getting ridiculous. First of all, Yeah Pirlo is probably the worst player for a 4-2-3-1, dual #6s need to be adequate defensively. As for Griezmann and Draxler, I agree, but I don't think it would be >40 million. I think his estimate for Rodriguez was a bit high. He is a great player for his position, but he is still a fullback.

Either way, I'm not sure about Draxler being the best choice. His potential is high but he could easily disappoint and he is priced to his potential, rather than his expected value. I'd rather look at players like Di Maria, Arda Turan, Kroos, Sanchez, Coentrao, Cavani, Shaqiri or Mandzukic.

Other than Turan who will likely come cheaper due to the fact that he flies under the radar vs. guys like Diego Costa, while being tactically versatile, the other players come from value destroyers. These teams rotate their teams unnecessarily because the grass is always greener on the other side. Di Maria would easily be sacrificed for Pogba, while Bayern may sell Kroos to purchase a guy like Draxler - ultimately these teams are not looking to cash in, but rather are looking to sell in order to partially fund their other purchases. Many of these player are also undervalued due to club depth.

For example, in an instant, I would sell Pogba along with Vuc, Quagliarella, and other replaceable pieces in order to fund purchases of 3/4 of these players. Also, another thing to avoid is purchasing these players with cash. If you go to Real Madrid and say "We want Di Maria", they will give you a stupid price, however, if you request payment for a guy like Pogba partially with player rights, you will still likely get your premium for Pogba, while getting a more market value price for the players you want to acquire.

Let's say you can do Pogba (€80MM) for Di Maria (€30-35MM), Coentrao (€10-15MM) + €35MM . Chances are you'd probably pay €40MM-€45MM for Di Maria standalone or €20MM for Coentrao. If you can get them to undervalue their own players while overvaluing yours, thats ideal.

In a perfect world, you sell Pogba for €80, and the other marketable players (Quags, Vuc, etc) for €10, you get Di Maria and Coentrao (or equivalent) + cash, you end up with ~€45 million in excess transfer funds, plus lets say an €10 million cash injection, while allows you to go and acquire maybe Turan (€30MM) & Mandzukic (€25MM). I think in this current overpriced environment, the best way to do well is to use the market ruiners against themselves.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

There's only one way Pogba is leaving and that is if we get the right offer including players and money. If we go and accept just money that IMo would be the biggest mistake we've ever done.

 

[MikeM]

ItaliaCalcio10

 

[petersmit]

Someone said it before... i'll just repeat his words: If we accept 80M for Pogba... we will have to overpay for all the players we want... everyone knows we'll have money so they are going to raise the price with 10M just for the fuck of it...

IF we sell pogba (I hope not) then we'll have to accept players in return... like Pogba for Di Maria and 35M or something like that...

 

[adRHCP]

La Gazzetta saying that if we sell Pogba we would bring RvP, Cuadrado, Pereyra and Paletta.

That would be such a pointless mercato and a way to waste 70M.

Lulic, Candreva, Immobile and Nani + keeping Pogba is the way to go.

 

[Mister]

I completely agree with selling him. If teams are willing to overpay, you sell, especially since the midfield is a position of strength. As I said in my previous post, if you use teams like PSG, Real Madrid, or Bayern's tendencies to overpay and need to sell current players simultaneously, you can create a ton of value. With teams like PSG, or Bayern, the grass is always greener and they will undervalue their current players (look at what Bayern sold Mario Gomez for) due to the need to generate funds, especially if included in a deal for a player who is part of huge bidding war. It will be amplified by the fact that by including those players in a direct swap, they directly reduce their cash obligation and find an immediate buyer without having to negotiate. If you sell Pogba and ask for Coentrao + Di Maria + $$$, and use the cash to add other pieces, you will do VERY well. Even if I'm a bit optimistic on the dollar amounts, the fact is that the concept makes a lot of sense.

Ultimately with Pogba, I think about it this way:
In 5 years are you more likely to be pissed because his fair value is 100 million and you were only able to get 80 million, or are you likely to be pissed because he is worth 30-40 million and you didn't sell him when you had the chance. Reaching the lofty potential that he has been labeled with is anything but a sure thing, and while he may attain that level, 80 million adequately compensates you for an elite central midfielder. Any down-side results in value creation.

Disclaimer: I work in portfolio management, so I'm trained to sell things when they are overvalued lol.

Top teams in europe dont sell their best players to generate funds they sell those players that dont fall into coaches plan or players who are unhappy on the bench and what to leave . Dont you think it would be contradictory if they sell their best player and buy another by paying over the odds ?.The reason they overpay is because they want to be the best at whatever cost . Mario gomez was sold for 20 mil , its not a small amount its not like other teams would be willing to pay 30 or so , or else someone else would have picked him up rather than fio who are not even in champions league . Even if we sell pogba and that will be only if he wants to go you are assuming that coentrao and di maria would want to come here ? .

If madrid tells di maria he is to be sold in exchange of pogba what do you think his agent is going to do ? sit n relax ? no he will go and inform all the money bag teams that his player is for sale and highest bidder will get him and he will have lot of options to choose from. The players will is the most important in todays football thats why you dont see so many swaps happening , our own quag and gio have refused teams so many times what can we do about it ?.
Its the same thing with kroos , turan sanchez etc we are going to be bidding against city chelsea psg manu arsenal .....its not like these teams dont know that these players are put on a sell list .

Since you work with portfolio selling things ie assets like property stocks cars have fixed value , whereas a footballer has a relative value to the club he is in and the way he is performing . Marchisio is on the bench here , but in any other team in the league he would start so he is more valuable to that other team than us.

By giving example of spurs and napoli your clearly getting confused in the reputation of juventus . This is a club where players dream to play in and not use as a stepping stone to other clubs. Those teams that sell do it to get to our level . Its not always about money its about reputation and thats why you will always hear marotta say that we are not a selling club pogba is our future.Heck even spurs and napoli dint want to loose bale and cavani , bale transfer went on for months but ultimately the player won as he wanted to move.

I agree about sometimes making a financial decision but thats the problem with it how do you draw the line on which player to sell at what amount . You either are a selling club or not .
Milan , arsenal , napoli ,spurs ,dortmund ...all these teams sold players for whatever reason they are all struggling , its evident . liverpool somehow managed to keep suarez inspite on not being in the champions league and its been rewarded now .