Wishlist and General Juve mercato talk (2014-15) (46 Viewers)

[Sir Miss-A-Lot]

I mean that we don't need to pay him his salary so we can use it on something else this season. His value surely won't increase here, so it's better to take a risk and send him to another club, maby he performs maby not. It's a risk yes but a better risk then keeping him in Juventus. With Romulo coming, we don't need him

I didn't state that we need Isla. But we won't save more money than by selling him. So actually it would make more sense to sell him now for a 3 million loss if the alternative is loaning him out and selling him for 5 million next year because that would be a 5 million loss (given that the valuation of him is the 10 million you claim, we don't know for sure, but it's a good guess). Yes we are taking a risk with loaning him out instead of selling him now, but we can only speculate if it is the right thing to do, because we don't know the details, the alternative offers, if they even exist. So all we can do is judging on a base of assumptions, which we fabricate ourselves from what we heard in the media. Your guess is at good as mine, but IF we could get 7-8 million for him now, and 5 million next year, i would sell him now, asuming we have given up on him (an assumption again, we don't know for sure)

 

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[reallegends]

Gianluca Di Marzio @DiMarzio · 55s


Qpr, chieste informazioni su Giovinco http://fb.me/3kDy0IWYL



Sell

And be left with three forwards,one of who is new to the squad,missed pre season and isn't anything special....Or we sell giovinco and sign both Eto'o and Borriello....Giovinco shouldn't leave this season unless an absolutely crazy offer comes for him

 

[Hust]

Also, given the financial possibilities of the club, considering the moves made, to me the best possible and also realistic mercato would be:

Player sales:

- Bonucci for 14M to be received in 4 installments; (1.8M salary net)
- Immobile and get 10M for him;
- Isla and get 8M in 3 installments for him; (1.4M salary net)
- Zaza for 7.5M in 3 installments (like it really happened);
- Vucinic for 6.25M upfront - actually happened; (3M salary net)
- Peluso for 5M in 3 years - actually happened; (0.8M salary net)
- Padoin for 2M in 2 years; (0.7M salary net)
- Fausto Rossi for 2M in 2 years;
- Motta loaned out (impossible to sell); (0.6M salary net)
- De Ceglie loaned out (impossible to sell); (1.3M salary net)
- Osvaldo returning to England; (2.5M salary net)
- Giovinco involved in a transfer for another player in Italy (1.4M salary net)

Quagliarella to remain till the end of his contract in 2015.

Total money to be received in the next 3/4 years from these transfers: around 55M. Salary shed: 13.5M net. Totally realistic, considering the values and transfers that were made.

I think this would be the absolutely best offloading mercato we could have.

Oh and I just remembered about Sturaro. We commited at least 5.5M to pay for him + 5.5M bonus.

Now, regarding signings, considering we really did commit almost 55M to be payed in the next 2 and 3 years, and considering that this is most accepted within Italy:

- Iturbe for 22M + 2.5M bonus in 3 installments (with 30% remaining with Mascardi) - 1.5M salary net - this is the exact deal Roma made - I'd rather overpay for him than for Pereyra.
- Keita Balde 22M + 3M bonus + Giovinco to Lazio (total value around 32/33M - Lazio could definitely take this) - 1.2M salary net;
- Coman on a free (1M salary net);
- Evra for 1.5M; (3.5M salary net);
- Menez on a free (2.5M salary net);
- Sorensen back (0.5M salary net);
- Young CB for 10/12M (from South America, like Doria, for example, or from Germany) - (0.7M salary net)

In the end, we'd commit to receive and spend, in the next 3 or 4 years, basically the same amount - around 55M. Iturbe's agent would receive 30% of his value when sold. We'd shed out salary of a total 13.5M net; and bring in around 12M in salaries, actually reducing the salary scale in 1.5M.


433:
Buffon - Licht, Barzagli, Chiellini, Evra; Asamoah, Pogba, Vidal; Tevez, Iturbe, Llorente.

Bench: Storari; Caceres, Sorensen, Doria, Ogbonna; Pirlo, Marchisio, Coman; Menez, Keita, Quagliarella.


We'd spend so much wiser, having a team with so much more swag, options, youth. And in the end, commiting to spend and receive roughly the same amount, also matching the salaries issue. That would be, realistically, one of the best possible mercato IMO, considering the resources we have now.

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I really think he's undecided on this.

Marotta will have a very important role. If he's firm, Vidal just won't leave. If he hints that if Vidal wants to leave it's his sole decision (which actually is not), than he might go.

This is on Marotta IMO.

32 million dollar player (Keita) as you said, for the bench?

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Gianluca Di Marzio @DiMarzio · 55s


Qpr, chieste informazioni su Giovinco http://fb.me/3kDy0IWYL


Sell

watch marotta loan him out instead. trust me

 

[am0110]

And be left with three forwards,one of who is new to the squad,missed pre season and isn't anything special....Or we sell giovinco and sign both Eto'o and Borriello....Giovinco shouldn't leave this season unless an absolutely crazy offer comes for him

Gio is not a forward, he is to weak to be the real one, he is just a winger and a very slim one.Pereyra could play winger better then him, or even Coman.

 

[jakku7]

We won't sell Giovinco, unless he admits that he wants out. I think that Allegri sees in him at least important rotation player or even starter if we are going to weary 4321.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

We're one striker short already. Giovinco will not be sold.

 

[PedroFlu]

This is not football manager, it's easy to write as you did. But the reality is way different. I will give you one example. If we sell Isla for less then 10 million euros, it will have a negative on our budget.

So when you guys see that we loan him out so we don't need to pay him salary you think in the football manager way.

But when you understand the reality that nobody wants to pay 10 million euros for isla ( the minimum so it doesen't becomes a negative effect on the budget) So if we sell Isla for 7 million euros, we don't have 7 million euros to spend, instead we have a negative effect on 3 million euros? Sounds good?

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To give you an another example Pereyra and Romulo will cost us around 7 million per year of our budget. We have a budget to fallow, and a deal for a player with transfer cost and salary is divided on his contract.

Example we buy Shaqiri for 20 million euros, we give him a salary of 3 million euros for 5 years= 35 milion euros/5 year= 7 milion euros per season on the budget.

We buy Robben for 25 million euros and give him a salary of 4,5 milllion per season and a 3 year contract= 12,88 per season

I read that Pereyra and Romulo together will cost us 7 million per season. 2 players who together cost us 16+8 milion euros in transfers= 24 million euros will together be less expensive then Robben.

But here people would think why diden't we buy Robben for 25 instead of Pereyra and Romulo for 24. Get a start rather then benchplayers. If it's was that easy

Sorry but you are wrong. You are considering accounting methods here. Not the real situation or cashflow.

It doesn't matter if he will have a negative impact of XX million in the accountings. He is fairly young, had a decent WC. If you loan him out, with a transfer fee agreed, this fee will be of around 8M. if he doesn't perform well enough, he will be loaned again next season, with a transfer agreement of 5M.

What I mean is, this is the best momento to try to cash in some with him, regardless of effects from the accounting point of view.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am fully aware that we make deals based on installments.

The transactions I posted, in the end, make up for around 55M commitment to receive or pay money throughout the next 2 or 3 years (3 or 4 installments).

This season we commited to send money to other clubs in the total of around 55M in the coming years.

All the signings I posted would reach a similar amount, considering they would be payed in installments for the next years. I'm not talking about effectively spending 55M this year.

If you look into the financial situation thread, I really spent some time showing this. With the transfers we made, we actually had a positive of +7M in, considering only cash flow for the year of 2014 in transfers.

I mentioned Iturbe (which was almost a done deal) and Keita Balde, 2 young players with low salaries. No talking about Robben here lol.

If you take your time to read what I wrote, you will understand that what I posted is completely realistic. The difference would be shifting our signings to players that bring something we don't have to the squad, while comitting to pay roughly 55M in the coming years, which is what we actually did this transfer season.

 

[reallegends]

Gio is not a forward, he is to weak to be the real one, he is just a winger and a very slim one.Pereyra could play winger better then him, or even Coman.

I would take Giovinco over Borriello(who i am sure we would sign if Giovinco leaves) any day of the week.Would you really want our total forwards to be left to three people(or four if eto'o or borriello arrive),50% of who have not played in a Juventus jersey ever before?
The midget is unfortunately necessary for us this season as a backup or rotation who can be useful if Allegri successfully implements a 4-3-3.So,it would be stupid to sell him.

 

[PedroFlu]

Loan, sell, whatever, just get rid of him for this year at least. He could perform to a decent levels and someone might eventually buy him, while with Romulo's arrival there won't be much room for Isla, who is already low on confidence.

I really agree.

I'm sure we could find buyers for 8M in installments.

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32 million dollar player (Keita) as you said, for the bench?

Yep. Overpaying so we can extend the payment and include a non wanted player in the mix. It's basically what Marotta did with Morata and would do with Iturbe. I don't blame him for using this overpaying to increase the number of installments, what I don't like is that the guys signed don't add new characteristics to the squad.

Keita is a really amazing prospect IMO, Lazio would never sell him to us for less than that. And I'd rather go for him, spending 25M cash, than commiting to spend the exact same amount for Romulo and Pereyra. I think Pereyra can be useful, but he's clearly a CM, when we have Asamoah, Marchisio, Pirlo, Pogba and Vidal for the position.

Romulo can be a useful backup player for the 352, but since we have Licht and Caceres and there will be a transition to other schemes, I consider his signing unecessary. He's 27yr old with no upside.

 

[LiquidPLP]

Anyone else think Allegri will try using Romulo as an attacker? Like a RW?

He did it with Urby at Milan. Romulo also had pretty decent goals and assists last season. I also can't see us using the 352 for long, so where does he belong? A backup CM? I think he'd be wasted there.

That would be horrible.

 

[PedroFlu]

in the end, I don't think Morata, Pereyra or Romulo were signed in bad terms. All of them were overpayed, yes, but it's something you have to do so you can get more favourable payment conditions. I think they all can contribute a lot to this team this season, mainly Morata and Pereyra.

I just think the positions they play are less urgent and important to strenghten than others where we have absolutely no options.

Also his signings seem to consider only the possibility of keeping the 352. How the hell will this team go into a 4men defense without fast SSs, wingers or an AM?

Marotta shows his lacking of planning when, after dealing for Iturbe for 1 month, a pacey forward, the deal failed and instead of looking for another young fast forward, he went for Pereyra, a CM. This is not planning in my book.

 

[Joe]

in the end, I don't think Morata, Pereyra or Romulo were signed in bad terms. All of them were overpayed, yes, but it's something you have to do so you can get more favourable payment conditions. I think they all can contribute a lot to this team this season, mainly Morata and Pereyra.

I just think the positions they play are less urgent and important to strenghten than others where we have absolutely no options.

Also his signings seem to consider only the possibility of keeping the 352. How the hell will this team go into a 4men defense without fast SSs, wingers or an AM?

Marotta shows his lacking of planning when, after dealing for Iturbe for 1 month, a pacey forward, the deal failed and instead of looking for another young fast forward, he went for Pereyra, a CM. This is not planning in my book.

I agree.

Morata is going to do very well IMO, might even bench Llorente who knows.

I think Pereyra will shock a lot of people. I'm really excited to see him play in competitive match.

 

[Hust]

I like the business we are doing with Udinese. They have such a good scouting system I think. Makes sense to pay a premium for some players (not all prospects). One needs to consider the cost to them as a midtable team the risk is higher investing in unknowns then cultivate them. Of course they will ask for a considerable amount of money with the development they get. Consider how much Alexis S. was bought for when they got him and how much he was sold.

I like Udinese, they do well with youngsters I think.

 

[juventino320]

I like the business we are doing with Udinese. They have such a good scouting system I think. Makes sense to pay a premium for some players (not all prospects). One needs to consider the cost to them as a midtable team the risk is higher investing in unknowns then cultivate them. Of course they will ask for a considerable amount of money with the development they get. Consider how much Alexis S. was bought for when they got him and how much he was sold.

I like Udinese, they do well with youngsters I think.

udinese is known for the best scouting system in italy, every year or two they present a new talent, when i said we are overpaying udinese players in order to keep the relationship between us strong and get the first option to buy they laughed at me

 

[Hust]

udinese is known for the best scouting system in italy, every year or two they present a new talent, when i said we are overpaying udinese players in order to keep the relationship between us strong and get the first option to buy they laughed at me

Meh. Everyone has their own opinions. People bitched about "overpaying" for Lavezzi, Pastore or Sanchez. Look where we are now.

 

[Bjerknes]

If Marotta wants to puff on the ball sack of another club, he should be bowing down to Aulas in Lyon, or whatever his name is in Porto. Udinese sucks compared to them. So man up and try a little international private instead of wasting your days down the street in Udine.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

If that's the case (overpaying for our relationship with Udinese), then shouldn't we at least get some good players every now and then?

Pereyra (loan)
Asamoah
Isla
Pepe
Motta
Paolucci
Candreva (loan)

52.8 million Euros total according to transfermarkt.

Those are the players that we got from Udinese since 09/10. Out of all of them, only Asamoah can really be considered a great purchase in my opinion. Pepe has been solid enough when needed and a good enough edition to the squad, but nothing spectacular. Pereya obviously cannot really be judged yet.

What about Sanchez? Cuadrado's half? Benatia? Muriel? With all this overpaying to supposedly help our relationship, we should at least be getting a deal every now and then. I'm not saying fire Marotta at all, but we do seem to overpay at times.

 

[Bjerknes]

Pepe was always overrated, he could barely cross the ball at times. People think he's so great but it's more of the system at the time that allowed us to penetrate defenses, which is why it was moronic to change. Motta and Isla are terrible, while Asamoah isn't even that ground-breaking! I know he has been used out of position but come on, it's not like he's Roberto Carlos out there.

 

[juventino320]

Meh. Everyone has their own opinions. People bitched about "overpaying" for Lavezzi, Pastore or Sanchez. Look where we are now.

its not my opinion, i was just wondering cuz its always happens between juve and udine thats it.

i wish we over pay one of pastore or sanchez

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If that's the case (overpaying for our relationship with Udinese), then shouldn't we at least get some good players every now and then?

Pereyra (loan)
Asamoah
Isla
Pepe
Motta
Paolucci
Candreva (loan)

52.8 million Euros total according to transfermarkt.

Those are the players that we got from Udinese since 09/10. Out of all of them, only Asamoah can really be considered a great purchase in my opinion. Pepe has been solid enough when needed and a good enough edition to the squad, but nothing spectacular. Pereya obviously cannot really be judged yet.

What about Sanchez? Cuadrado's half? Benatia? Muriel? With all this overpaying to supposedly help our relationship, we should at least be getting a deal every now and then. I'm not saying fire Marotta at all, but we do seem to overpay at times.

and Iaquinta