why can't we win Cl? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter denco
- Start date
bloody hell 
First post is actually spot on here. Particularly the analysis of Camo who is criminally overrated by just about everybody on here.
The point with English vs Italian teams is also very striking. The majority of times they will play, the Italian side will possess the more technically gifted players and control much of the game. English sides however always seem to have that cutting edge - one chance and they'll score that killer goal. Italian sides rarely seem urgent enough until its too late.
First post is actually spot on here. Particularly the analysis of Camo who is criminally overrated by just about everybody on here.
The point with English vs Italian teams is also very striking. The majority of times they will play, the Italian side will possess the more technically gifted players and control much of the game. English sides however always seem to have that cutting edge - one chance and they'll score that killer goal. Italian sides rarely seem urgent enough until its too late.
Personally I think that for the CL campaign we should be more daring. With only Vieira + Camo to provide us creativity in the old 4-4-2, might as well change to 4-3-1-2 with Mutu in the back, since Mutu can pass well. In turn the formation will be like this.
--------Zlatan - Trez
------------Mutu--------
-------Vieira - Emerson - Camo
Zambro - Canna - Thuram - Miguel
-------------- Buffon ---------------
There u have it, Camo + Mutu to provide the passing + FKs, Zambro + Miguel will be attacking options as well, provided that Miguel will sign for us. If not, fit Chiellini to the left hand side and put Zambro to the right hand side (I feel that this is more risky, as from wad I heard, Zambro didn't do quite well at RB). And may God bless us that Zlatan can improve his finishing touch and Trez is not injured again :groan:
The past CL season bothers me. Even though we look like we do well, but we always score 1 goal, only 1. It has something to do with the mentality side of Capello. Y can't we score 2 or more to be more safe? After all we shiouldn't be so defensive after 1 goal up and remain 1 - 0. Emerson, Vieira + our 2 CBs will be able to do the job well. I can trust them since they r really concentrated. However if we still defend our 1 goal difference scoreline, we would be badly raped in the future, most probably by Barca.
This is the campaign in which 4 of our CBs should be used. I do have a different approach against English teams. Since English teams r more physical and play the long ball theory, place Tudor in there instead of Thuram, as Tudor is taller and can head the balls away. Thuram has a weak point against high balls. In this way we have the Canna - Tudor partnership, a quick + short defender and a tall + slow defender. . This way they can provide cover for each other. But then I would still prefer the Kovac - Tudor partnership TBH, since both of them have been playing in the NT for quite a whlie, so the chemistry between the 2 players should be good. And yea I will say it once and I will say it again, selling Tudor will be a grave mistake. For Spanish we will stick with the Canna - Thuram partnership. Kovac would probably be used as a backup for Canna since he is quick and he is able to mark Henry.
--------Zlatan - Trez
------------Mutu--------
-------Vieira - Emerson - Camo
Zambro - Canna - Thuram - Miguel
-------------- Buffon ---------------
There u have it, Camo + Mutu to provide the passing + FKs, Zambro + Miguel will be attacking options as well, provided that Miguel will sign for us. If not, fit Chiellini to the left hand side and put Zambro to the right hand side (I feel that this is more risky, as from wad I heard, Zambro didn't do quite well at RB). And may God bless us that Zlatan can improve his finishing touch and Trez is not injured again :groan:
The past CL season bothers me. Even though we look like we do well, but we always score 1 goal, only 1. It has something to do with the mentality side of Capello. Y can't we score 2 or more to be more safe? After all we shiouldn't be so defensive after 1 goal up and remain 1 - 0. Emerson, Vieira + our 2 CBs will be able to do the job well. I can trust them since they r really concentrated. However if we still defend our 1 goal difference scoreline, we would be badly raped in the future, most probably by Barca.
This is the campaign in which 4 of our CBs should be used. I do have a different approach against English teams. Since English teams r more physical and play the long ball theory, place Tudor in there instead of Thuram, as Tudor is taller and can head the balls away. Thuram has a weak point against high balls. In this way we have the Canna - Tudor partnership, a quick + short defender and a tall + slow defender. . This way they can provide cover for each other. But then I would still prefer the Kovac - Tudor partnership TBH, since both of them have been playing in the NT for quite a whlie, so the chemistry between the 2 players should be good. And yea I will say it once and I will say it again, selling Tudor will be a grave mistake. For Spanish we will stick with the Canna - Thuram partnership. Kovac would probably be used as a backup for Canna since he is quick and he is able to mark Henry.
The reason why we cannot win the Champions League is because we can never turn up our pace of play and adapt to a situation where our life is threatened. Juventus nowadays is a team that is based on hard work and collective play, turning out results similar to that of a football machine. This football machine has a constant output level and cannot shift levels of production that easily. More footballically speaking, our side is not able to turn up the heat when the pressure is on. We do not have the resources at the moment to cope with difficult situations, most of the time being on the attack, and just as we witnessed with Liverpool last season we cannot get the job done when the clock is ticking. As the game go on, we become flustered because we are unable to make a breakthrough in tight matches where both teams are playing solid. There are two reasons for this in my mind...lack of creativity and lack of useful replacements on the bench.
If you take a look at the recent clubs who have won the Champions League...Bayern, Real, Milan, Porto, Liverpool...all those clubs had creative players controlling their midfield, from Scholl at Bayern to Xabi Alonso and Gerrard at Liverpool. By having these creative players in the team, making a breakthrough on offense is just a little more easy. A player such as Xabi or Deco can make just one pass or decision that throws off the opposition defense, a turn or quick-thinking action that nobody on Juventus is able to pull off. That one decision can make or break matches, and most importantly provide your side that little spark to help turn up the heat and lift their game to the next level. That is what we are lacking.
Hard work and great defensive play can only get us so far. As we have seen many times before, individual brilliance wins matches and machines can only do so much...they need workers to finish off the job.
If you take a look at the recent clubs who have won the Champions League...Bayern, Real, Milan, Porto, Liverpool...all those clubs had creative players controlling their midfield, from Scholl at Bayern to Xabi Alonso and Gerrard at Liverpool. By having these creative players in the team, making a breakthrough on offense is just a little more easy. A player such as Xabi or Deco can make just one pass or decision that throws off the opposition defense, a turn or quick-thinking action that nobody on Juventus is able to pull off. That one decision can make or break matches, and most importantly provide your side that little spark to help turn up the heat and lift their game to the next level. That is what we are lacking.
Hard work and great defensive play can only get us so far. As we have seen many times before, individual brilliance wins matches and machines can only do so much...they need workers to finish off the job.
i like ZhiXins team. i think unless Zlatan becomes a 25 goal a season striker, then Trezeguet isnt going anywhere anytime soon.
In saying that, Mutu is a player who can do a lot for teh team. he has pace, good creative skills, can pass the ball very well as also. in reality, in form, he is probably our most creative player in the squad.
Miguel is an important signing, without him the team does look unstable. Last season i watched many games where we utilised the left side with zambrotta and nedved more than the right side. Camoranesi is a very good player but is often forced centrally when i believe he is best out wide. Without Miguel, seeing Zebina there again would be a shame.
Just on a quick note...juve has the best two DM in the world..argubly anyway. Im not on for isolating trezeguet upfront, as he is awful when being played as such, but a a player like Zlatan would be perfect for that role. Tall, fast, strong, great skills, can hold the ball up for hours if he likes
...why not try to utilise that to accomodate the likes of a Mutu and del piero in the team??
have 3 behind Zlatan. And with mutu, del piero, nedved, camoranesi and olivera....it gives plenty to choose from.
In saying that, Mutu is a player who can do a lot for teh team. he has pace, good creative skills, can pass the ball very well as also. in reality, in form, he is probably our most creative player in the squad.
Miguel is an important signing, without him the team does look unstable. Last season i watched many games where we utilised the left side with zambrotta and nedved more than the right side. Camoranesi is a very good player but is often forced centrally when i believe he is best out wide. Without Miguel, seeing Zebina there again would be a shame.
Just on a quick note...juve has the best two DM in the world..argubly anyway. Im not on for isolating trezeguet upfront, as he is awful when being played as such, but a a player like Zlatan would be perfect for that role. Tall, fast, strong, great skills, can hold the ball up for hours if he likes
...why not try to utilise that to accomodate the likes of a Mutu and del piero in the team??have 3 behind Zlatan. And with mutu, del piero, nedved, camoranesi and olivera....it gives plenty to choose from.
All this blaming of our "lack of creativity" as the main reason for not wining CL cup is totally out of order...because, normally, the most creatives teams doesnt win the CH League....
To win the champions league you need a fairly good squad (not necesarly with superstars in it), an excelent season and...a lots of luck. that all. Two years ago, we cover broadly the first two requisites but failed in the third one...
And we get out of CL last year, not for lack of creativity, but because the stupid way we play the first 30 minutes against Pool.
To win the champions league you need a fairly good squad (not necesarly with superstars in it), an excelent season and...a lots of luck. that all. Two years ago, we cover broadly the first two requisites but failed in the third one...
And we get out of CL last year, not for lack of creativity, but because the stupid way we play the first 30 minutes against Pool.
well in all fairness, it seems to win any major tournament these days the team has to be more defensive than attacking. Looking at the past few seasons, teh teams who have made it far have been the defensive teams.
I just feel that our largest weakness right now is trying to play a 4-4-2 system without a starting 11 which is at its full potential. We lack a right back, as miguel isnt signed as yet. Nedved isnt young anymore and who knows if he can perform the way he did a few seasons back. Centrally i think we have to great midfielders, but neither are great at moving forward.
We can talk about creativity as much as much as we like, but juve wont have that in a 4-4-2. Its a solid formation, a formation that can have players come in and out without a lot of difficulty. but its a formation which cant have any weaknesses at all.
Looking at a 4-3-1-2 formation, a DM for example, in that line up can weak offensively, because it can be covered by the playmaker, alla tacchinardi-zidane.
In a 4-4-2, its a lot harder to cover positions. If we dont buy a right back, it leaves us with a right back who can move forward very well. Vieira and Emerson are great, but we needed a true attacking midfielder, a player like Scholes or Ballack...a player who makes runs into the box and always seems to score.
When i think of a 4-4-2, i think of Man U in 99. Every player was perfect for that 4-4-2 formation. they had an attacking midfielder, a DM, a good right back and left back who could both defend and attack well and link up with two great wingers in giggs and becks...two forwards with great understanding who could both score and create for each other and help get the wingers and midfielders into the game. Great keeper, solid central defence and good cover on the bench. It really did work a treat and had no weaknesses as such.
This juve side has many world class names...but it still seems incomplete and it has been incomplete for quite time now. Every season there is an important position that we lack and it gets the team unstuck.
I just feel that our largest weakness right now is trying to play a 4-4-2 system without a starting 11 which is at its full potential. We lack a right back, as miguel isnt signed as yet. Nedved isnt young anymore and who knows if he can perform the way he did a few seasons back. Centrally i think we have to great midfielders, but neither are great at moving forward.
We can talk about creativity as much as much as we like, but juve wont have that in a 4-4-2. Its a solid formation, a formation that can have players come in and out without a lot of difficulty. but its a formation which cant have any weaknesses at all.
Looking at a 4-3-1-2 formation, a DM for example, in that line up can weak offensively, because it can be covered by the playmaker, alla tacchinardi-zidane.
In a 4-4-2, its a lot harder to cover positions. If we dont buy a right back, it leaves us with a right back who can move forward very well. Vieira and Emerson are great, but we needed a true attacking midfielder, a player like Scholes or Ballack...a player who makes runs into the box and always seems to score.
When i think of a 4-4-2, i think of Man U in 99. Every player was perfect for that 4-4-2 formation. they had an attacking midfielder, a DM, a good right back and left back who could both defend and attack well and link up with two great wingers in giggs and becks...two forwards with great understanding who could both score and create for each other and help get the wingers and midfielders into the game. Great keeper, solid central defence and good cover on the bench. It really did work a treat and had no weaknesses as such.
This juve side has many world class names...but it still seems incomplete and it has been incomplete for quite time now. Every season there is an important position that we lack and it gets the team unstuck.
You do not need a huge amount of creativity to win the Champions League, however you need at least one player in midfield who can make things happen. Just look at the previous winners of the damn competition...almost all of them have natural playmakers or players who can become the "quarterback" in midfield. In the middle of our pitch we have not had any creativity since Zidane was wearing our shirt.
And we were kicked out of the CL because we could not create anything on home soil under difficult circumstances. Absolutely nothing.
And we were kicked out of the CL because we could not create anything on home soil under difficult circumstances. Absolutely nothing.