why can't we win Cl? (1 Viewer)

[SobatPadi]

i read from the media that vieira is our creative player...

the one who supplies assist to our strikers.....

 

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[djleli]

thatws not creativity.. creativiy is to dribble to open up spaces to score goals from unimaginable positions look at ronaldinho

 

[Zizou]

Nedved is not creative at all....he's strength, power and effectiveness but not creative

 

[djleli]

yeah right

 

[Zizou]

You said that creativity = to dribble to open up spaces to score goals from unimaginable positions look at ronaldinho

From those attributes Nedved has the goal scoring quality from any position but the rest. A creative player is one who usually can dribble and assist players with dence opening passes. Camoranesi is our most creative player and in fact he was our top assist man last season followed by Zlatan. Don't really know how many assists Nedved gave last season but I don't think they were that many.

 

[JCK]

There is a difference between creativity and hard work. Nedved is more of a hard worker than creative. Nedved has flair, but cannot create something out of nothing. Nedved can score from various spots on the pitch but his dribbling is limited.

 

[Zizou]

Exactly Jeeks. Creative players = Zidane, Aimar, Ronaldinho, etc Hard working players = Gattuso, Nedved, Davids, Keane, etc

 

[djleli]

yeah i feel ya but in juve we dont have so creative midifielders the only ones which come close are camo and neddy

 

[Zizou]

Zlatan and DP are more creative than Nedved. And you might actually see that by yourself in December as I heard a rumour that Juve might be coming to Malta for a small friendly

 

[Azzurri7]

you live in Malta?

 

[Zizou]

Yeah just like aca.

 

[s0ftcore]

Besides the creativity problem, I also feel that we rely alot on certain players.

Against Milan in the final when we were without Nedved (who was our best player then) we played terrible.

Against Liverpool I was wondering what the hell was Ruben Oliveria doing? Apparently he's supposed to be creative but falling down on your ass when dribbling is anything but creative -.-

We lack depth

 

[- vOnAm -]

yeah, Juve tend to do that, few years back we were heavily dependent on Zidane.

but creativity is a big problem, and our lack of forward flank players to open up the field.

 

[aressandro10]

the reason we lost to liverpool is the return of Pavel Nedved...

we was on roll with 433 and then Pavel returns and we changed tactics to accomodate him... that was really an annoying mistake..

nevertheless i think we are as good as anybody to win the CL.... the most defensive teams have more chance to win the CL than the most attacking team and we are a prrtty sound defensively team.

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Other numbers seem to suggest otherwise. The highest scores recorded in a CL final in recent times is the 4-0 Milan delivered to Steaua Bucarest (after demolishing Real 5-0 in the semi when a 0-0 would have sufficed) and the 4-0 against Barca in 94. The latter was a bit in contradiction with the rest of our CL campaign that year, which had seen us adopt a more cautious attitude (mainly because we lacked the talent to play differently), but only the season before we had reached that same final by properly finishing off all our opponents (beating them in every single game, no less, and often if not always outplaying them).

This year's CL final was turning into just another demonstration if it hadn't been for those infamous 6 minutes. Milan were still trying to score the fourth and nail it before Liverpool's come-back, and after the shock of seeing three goals fall from the sky we still made more efforts than the latter to win the game.

Lippi's first Juve itself was a very determined-till-the-end team, maybe even more so in its 2nd and 3rd CL campaigns (the ones you lost in the final) than in her first winning year. I regard the Ajax-Juve semi of 98 as the best display of the ability to suffocate the other team for the whole 90 mins since Sacchi's Milan. Your 2003 semi against Real was another such show of force that comes to mind.

Inter, for what it's worth, had the CL's best goal rate last year.

Finals are always games of their own, but if we re-examine the ones Italian clubs have lost in the past 25 years, we can't really chastize them for giving up:

- Juve in 83 against Hamburg : Juve dominating with their stellar team but Magath taking his chance and punishing you (in fact, you can be accused of just the opposite in that game, i.e. thinking you had already won before playing)

- Roma-Liverpool in 84 : pretty balanced game with both teams more preoccupied with not losing than anything else.

- Juve-Liverpool in 85 : tight game that could go both ways and Juve winning on a dubious peno.

- Barca-Samp in 92 : Samp playing superbly, giving everything they have, creating the best chances (Vialli and Mancio hitting posts), Barca being dangerous too but only winning on a Koeman scud in the dying minutes of ET).

- Milan-Marseille in 93 : very balanced game again decided on an episode and the Southern French confirming that they are our nemesis.

- Milan-Ajax in 95 : Ajax are favourites but Milan play better, not letting the young Dutch prodigies take the initiative, though Kluivert seals it in the final minutes on a counter.

- Juve-Dortmund in 97 : see Juve-Hamburg, i.e. Juve too sure of themelves and being quite unlucky too.

- Juve-Real : again a very balanced game with both teams taking their chances and Real winning on a detail.

So, whereas it is true that, once they get to the final, English teams tend to win it more often than not, I don't think any of our losses can be attributed to too cautious an attitiude on our behalf, whereas most of our wins (or at least Milan's) were lessons of determination, sometimes (Milan-Barca) stemming precisely from our will to humiliate our cocky opponent.

This can be pretty much extended to most of the two legs games. We sometimes defend when there is a lead to preserve but generally also because we don't have many alternatives, because we don't have the players it takes in that particular instance. One thing is wiping the floor with Ajax in Amsterdam with the likes of Zidane, the pre-98 DP and Vieri, another is managing to score against Liverpool with what you had on the field this year.

An exception must be made though for the group stage games, where my impression is that we sometimes do display a dangerous serie A-esque attitude of scoring one and then sitting back, precisely because there is less at stake as a draw could always be remedied in the next game.

So to conclude, I'll state the obvious for the umpteenth time : if you have the players to produce offensive football, you can and will do it, otherwise you need to adapt. Juve could certainly use a creative mid that makes the link between attack and midfield, but on the whole you certainly have what it takes to win the CL (especially if Cassano were to join you).

I am not sure i get your point there, in the matches you are quoting, serieA was far and away the best league in the world and in those cases like Milan trouncing Real Madrid, they were playing with a "foreign" mentality by annihialating teams they are better than, which is my point exactly.
Under normal circumstances , serieA sides should be winning the Cl comfortably but they do not because they play to their maximum for just 6o% minutes of each game, try to cruise through matches instead of taking games by the scruff of the neck and thereby lose games they should easily win.

Technically, this league is the best, but the biggest problem is probably that they have coaches who try to be too clever and others who are just plain negative.

Every time this topic is brought up, i am reminded how many times serieA sides have won cl , compared to Epl, but thats not the point, by rights Epl teams should not be winning Cl, cos imo they are not good enuff to win it, tactically, but what they have in abundance is the sheer will to win and never stop attacking even if they are being humiliated.

How can a Liverpool side with what they have in their squad win the Cl? Why not Italian sides? Until Italian sides get into the habit of wanting to win every game home and away like Milan did in the 80s and Juve in the 90s with Lippi, then it aint gonna happen
From Juve's point of view, its not gonna happen with Capello in charge, he is way too negative for that and it just pains me that he is very successful as the guy is the antithesis of good football
Epl sides set out to win every game but unfortunately they are not good enuff to do it whilst Italian sides who have that capability to win every game, tend not to do so , talk about irony. Hence the relative failure
WHO DARES WINS

 

[Gep]

We'll win it! very soon i hope but we'll win it. Not sure when but we'll win it! With Adrian Mutu we'll DEFINATELY WIN IT!!!

 

[lestat_1987]

He just scored two goals playing for Romania and they got the game :-D