why can't we win Cl? (4 Viewers)

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#1
Every season since Lippi's glory years in the late 90s, i have looked at Juve and thought , nope, they are not good enuff to win it and unfortunately , this season is no different.

I look at the goal keeper, and think great, I look at the defence and think very solid, maybe a tad slow when dealing with pacey strikers but thats nit picking, overall they are as good as anything out there

I look at the strikers and think , yep, on their day, they are a match for anyone .

But then i come to the midfield and therein lies the problem, even with the addition of Vieria, undoubtedly world class, Emerson as good as any defensive midfielder as there is, but going forward is where i have a problem.

Believe it or not Camo is the best we have in that department creatively, and if you harbour any ambitions of winning Cl, then i am sorry thats not enuff, when you look at Barcelona, they do not just have Ronaldinho, they have Deco, Xavi who will wipe the floor individually with Camo, creatively, not to talk about their combined forces

In Milan you have Kaka and Pirlo, maybe Rui Costa and even Cafu who provide the creative outlets

And yet its not enuff for these teams to win it but they are are more capable in a final to win it than we are imo

Another problem is serieA, yes we have gone over this ground far too many times , yes yes yes serieA is the best league in the world and all that but unfortunately it is not the most competitive in the sense that if Juve are leading Sienna 2-0, from the firts 10 minutes, 90% of the time, Juve have won the game.

And i do believe that serieA teams take that stupid attitude to Cl, never trying to annihilate or humilate teams , just doing enuff to win, and because they get away with it in seriea as Siena will probably look at losing 2-0 to juve or Milan as not bad, their English counterparts although technically nowhere as good, will never stand for that nonsense.

They will go on attacking you no matter how better you are than them until they score any type of goal to mount a fightback and most likely comeback and win the game but you get the neighsayers ridiculing the league

In 25 years or thereabout of European cup and now Cl, I am not sure but English teams have gotten to the final 8 times and won the lot, okay maybe Leeds against Bayern and Liverpool against Juve in 85 but you get my drift

Look at Italy, Milan have lost 3 finals that i can think of, Juve 4 or 5 final we have lost, Sampdoria 1 , that come to mind

If you waatch those games, i am pretty sure the English sides were battered from pillar to post but still ended up winning because of the non give up attitude which Italian teams do not have

In our case , lack of creativity leaves us with no other choice but to play safe in Cl
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,692
#3
good Post, Denco....But I still think that having Vieira will give us a a strong Push to play Offen, However Neddy and Emerson will play a big part this year...and as you said Camo is the best we have....
 

Zlatan

Senior Member
Jun 9, 2003
23,049
#5
Besides, it's nothing that cant be solved. Imagine if we buy just 2 players we are linked with, Miguel and Cassano:


----------Cassano Zlatan----------

---------------Mutu----------------

----------Vieira Emerson Camoranesi

Zambrotta Thuram Cannavaro Miguel

---------------Buffon---------------



Very few teams in the world could have such a squad. World class keeper, fantastic defense, best defensive midfield, and unmatched creativity up front. Capable of defending well, and attacking both through the middle and on the flanks.


Only problem could be finishing, but that would be easily solved by throwing Trez in there.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,757
#6
Not that misery loves company, but I will gladly take our current woes over those of Barca or Real Madrid these days.
 

Elnur_E65

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2004
10,848
#7
That's a strong line of reasoning, denco, but I would say that there is a much more complicated compilation of reasons, not only lack of creativity and problems with the midfield.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,757
#8
Looking back at last year's CL, one statistic glaringly stuck out for me: we never scored more than 1 goal in a regulation game.
 

Primo

Juventus FC - Philippines
Dec 20, 2002
1,436
#9
Good post Denco. I've always outlined that although we have one of the most solid teams, we have a high probability of reaching a stalemate when we face another solid team.

Let's face it, Juventus is a poaching team. We do not break down opponents by merely attacking them. We let them create the mistakes by staying solidly at the back, and exploiting them when they go forward.

In last years case with Liverpool, they defended against us after scoring 2 goals. And that caused a lot of problems because (blah,blah,blah) we couldn't break them down offensively.

[OFF TOPIC]

Liverpool played like us last year, they played solid defense. The difference why they won the CL is because they have someone like Gerrard who can win matches.

[BACK TO TOPIC]

Point is, we need to push forward. We simply can not always expect our opponents to make mistakes. We have to learn to dissect them.

Solution is, as we all know, a good attacking midfielder. We used to have that in Nedved and Del Piero. But these players are past their prime and we need young blood.

Up to now I'm still waiting for that signing and until then, I just might have to agree with Denco that we just might not be able to win the CL. I guess the Scudetto will do.
 

Elnur_E65

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2004
10,848
#10
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
Looking back at last year's CL, one statistic glaringly stuck out for me: we never scored more than 1 goal in a regulation game.
Yep...

did we have a 100% record on the first round or something close to that?
 

HelterSkelter

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2005
20,595
#11
we scored 7 goals in the first round.
of which 6 were part of 1-0 victories.

back to the topic.
i think capello's tactics possibly suit the league more than the knockouts.we can compare both lippi and capello,and we can say that both of them won only 1 CL title,but what we ignore is that Lippi took juventus to 4 champions league finals,and you could count him unlcuky because he was on the losing side 3 times out of 4.capello only has 1 CL final to his name if im not mistaken(with milan 93/94) and he won that one.
a factor that DOES matter a lot in the CL is your approach to home and away matches.all teams try to defend away,and bomb the opposition at home.somehow,juventus seem to defend BOTH at home and away.
and yes,juventus do lack that extra bite in midfield.our attacks are very predictable,and that cannot be changed until we get a clever and creative midfielder in the team.camoranesi alone cannot do that job.we can rant on about creative midfielders all we want,but sadly,capello seems to disagree.
all i can hope for now is that ruben olivera has the greatest season of his life.and that is very very wishful thinking.
 

Torkel

f(s+1)=3((s +1)-1=3s
Jul 12, 2002
3,537
#12
We are, with out somewhat boring and solid style of play, built for league titles; wich we mostly win by beating the mediocre and poor teams in the league. I feel that we have struggled with the best teams out there for some time now.
 
OP
denco

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #13
    ++ [ originally posted by Zlatan ] ++
    Besides, it's nothing that cant be solved. Imagine if we buy just 2 players we are linked with, Miguel and Cassano:


    ----------Cassano Zlatan----------

    ---------------Mutu----------------

    ----------Vieira Emerson Camoranesi

    Zambrotta Thuram Cannavaro Miguel

    ---------------Buffon---------------



    Very few teams in the world could have such a squad. World class keeper, fantastic defense, best defensive midfield, and unmatched creativity up front. Capable of defending well, and attacking both through the middle and on the flanks.


    Only problem could be finishing, but that would be easily solved by throwing Trez in there.
    You think this team you have put in front of us will win Cl because you said so?"unmatched creativity up front"?

    That is all just conjecture, how do you know 3 players of similar temperament and maybe level of ability will gel? You have 3 players that are selfish in equal measure, disruptive in equal measure and for some ,overrated in equal measure but you think other teams will not be able to match their creativity.
    In my experience in football, its players with totally opposite charecteristics both on the field and off it, that gel the most. I agree with you with Miguel as he will definitely help us . I also will prefer if we attack more as a team and we could do with more pace in our side

    I create a thread and immediately start reading about Barca and Real not winning the Cl or I prefer our position to theirs

    Flashpoint this post is not about Barcelona or Real . it is about Juventus , and being in a better position than Barcelona or Real is not gonna help us win Cl

    I disagree with those who think Chelsea will win Cl as they like us are too pragmatic in their approach, but in their wingers , they do have more pace than we do. But they may sometimes rely on a long ball approach which i do not like
     

    Zlatan

    Senior Member
    Jun 9, 2003
    23,049
    #14
    ++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
    You think this team you have put in front of us will win Cl because you said so?"unmatched creativity up front"?

    That is all just conjecture, how do you know 3 players of similar temperament and maybe level of ability will gel? You have 3 players that are selfish in equal measure, disruptive in equal measure and for some ,overrated in equal measure but you think other teams will not be able to match their creativity.
    In my experience in football, its players with totally opposite charecteristics both on the field and off it, that gel the most. I agree with you with Miguel as he will definitely help us . I also will prefer if we attack more as a team and we could do with more pace in our side

    I create a thread and immediately start reading about Barca and Real not winning the Cl or I prefer our position to theirs

    Flashpoint this post is not about Barcelona or Real . it is about Juventus , and being in a better position than Barcelona or Real is not gonna help us win Cl

    I disagree with those who think Chelsea will win Cl as they like us are too pragmatic in their approach, but in their wingers , they do have more pace than we do. But they may sometimes rely on a long ball approach which i do not like

    I didnt say this team would win us the CL 100%, I simply said that the lack of creativity can be resolved. And of course you can never know how players will gel, it's always a risk, no matter who we buy.
     

    HelterSkelter

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2005
    20,595
    #15
    maybe playing nedved behind the strikers,the way did lippi did,will solve our problems to an extent.
    hsi natural position may be on the left wing,but he played a lot behind the two strikers when he won the european player of the year award.
    he is very very effective in that position.
    he can both create and score,so it looks like a good idea.
     

    HelterSkelter

    Senior Member
    Apr 15, 2005
    20,595
    #18
    provided that we sign cassano and miguel...

    -------------zlatan---------cassano--------
    ---------------------nedved------------------
    zambrotta---viera----emerson---camoranesi--
    chilleni-----thuram---cannavaro------miguel--
    --------------------bufffon--------------------

    or even if we dont sign either of them,which looks unlikely...replace cassano with mutu,and miguel with zebina in that lineup and it still looks good.

    coming back to creative midfielders.maybe..just MAYBE..del piero could be fielded as the playmaker?
    he can create,we all know that.it could be a good option,both for him personally,as he wants playing time and for the club.but it all depends on if he hits form.
     
    OP
    denco

    denco

    Superior Being
    Jul 12, 2002
    4,679
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #19
    ++ [ originally posted by axlrose85 ] ++
    provided that we sign cassano and miguel...

    -------------zlatan---------cassano--------
    ---------------------nedved------------------
    zambrotta---viera----emerson---camoranesi--
    chilleni-----thuram---cannavaro------miguel--
    --------------------bufffon--------------------

    or even if we dont sign either of them,which looks unlikely...replace cassano with mutu,and miguel with zebina in that lineup and it still looks good.

    coming back to creative midfielders.maybe..just MAYBE..del piero could be fielded as the playmaker?
    he can create,we all know that.it could be a good option,both for him personally,as he wants playing time and for the club.but it all depends on if he hits form.
    Dp cannot play as a playmaker , he is not good enuff in that position and Nedved is to be honest , not good enuff to do that. It worked for him for a while under Lippi, but its not the same player we are talking about. Personally he would be on my bench cos to me if he cannot play on the left wing, heis of no use in my team and it seems his high tempo play is catching up to him a bit as he gets older
     

    Zlatan

    Senior Member
    Jun 9, 2003
    23,049
    #20
    ++ [ originally posted by axlrose85 ] ++
    provided that we sign cassano and miguel...

    -------------zlatan---------cassano--------
    ---------------------nedved------------------
    zambrotta---viera----emerson---camoranesi--
    chilleni-----thuram---cannavaro------miguel--
    --------------------bufffon--------------------

    or even if we dont sign either of them,which looks unlikely...replace cassano with mutu,and miguel with zebina in that lineup and it still looks good.

    coming back to creative midfielders.maybe..just MAYBE..del piero could be fielded as the playmaker?
    he can create,we all know that.it could be a good option,both for him personally,as he wants playing time and for the club.but it all depends on if he hits form.

    WOW FANTASTIC FORMATION!!!


    I just hope the other teams dont notice we have 12 players on the field ;)
     

    Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)