I don't think I can stop supporting them. I'm a very loyal by nature, and cannot "stop" when I feel like.
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When will you stop supporting Juve? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Martin
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It's normal I think, like Aaron said most of the people who came with Melo and Diego will probably leave too. There may be some leaving with Buffon, Trez and etc. But I think a lot of people might leave with Del Piero since he has a lot of over the top hardcore fans, and a lot of them loose a lot of interests in match when he is on bench or not playin at all. Thats normal he is a big icon after all.
I see your point but the case with human being is a little different.
Yes, fairness does presuppose that the outcome could have been different that's why it was unfair to the criminal because it could have been different.
what If he was born somewhere else in a different enviroment? what if he made different friends? The what ifs go forever because anything could have happened.
With the hydrogen atom.. it's always going to be the same no matter what..
So I wouldn't say that's a valid example.
Yes, fairness does presuppose that the outcome could have been different that's why it was unfair to the criminal because it could have been different.
what If he was born somewhere else in a different enviroment? what if he made different friends? The what ifs go forever because anything could have happened.
With the hydrogen atom.. it's always going to be the same no matter what..
So I wouldn't say that's a valid example.
This is where I wish to tap you lightly on the head.
No, it's not different. It's exactly the same. If determinism is the rule of the universe then there is no such thing as "could have been different". How did you miss that???
The only way the "life" of the hydrogen atom "could have been different" was if it had been a different atom. And the only way the life of the criminal "could have been different" was if he were a different human being, not figuratively speaking but literally.
No, it's not different. It's exactly the same. If determinism is the rule of the universe then there is no such thing as "could have been different". How did you miss that???
The only way the "life" of the hydrogen atom "could have been different" was if it had been a different atom. And the only way the life of the criminal "could have been different" was if he were a different human being, not figuratively speaking but literally.
No, you missed my point. I didn't say it was actually going to be different. With determinism that's impossible. What I am saying is that it would have been different had he turned out to be a different individual given different circumstances.
The reason why it's different from the hydrogen molecules is because in the case of the criminal, he doesn't need to be a completely different person, only a few things needed to be different for him to lead a good life, but in the case of the hydrogen molecule, the very essence of its nature compels it to act the way it does.
So, if you can theoretically go back in time and change a few circumstances, that person would have never become a criminal. But no matter what you do, this change cannot be possible with hydrogen molecules because their very nature is unchangable.
The point of determinism is not that the outcome is always the same no matter what. The point of it is to say, that depending on the varying social conditions of the individual, he may have no choice to act completely freely. At least it is the point I am trying to make. That his actions depend on pre-conditions that he had no control of. That is not to say that the pre-conditions could not have been different.
The reason why it's different from the hydrogen molecules is because in the case of the criminal, he doesn't need to be a completely different person, only a few things needed to be different for him to lead a good life, but in the case of the hydrogen molecule, the very essence of its nature compels it to act the way it does.
So, if you can theoretically go back in time and change a few circumstances, that person would have never become a criminal. But no matter what you do, this change cannot be possible with hydrogen molecules because their very nature is unchangable.
The point of determinism is not that the outcome is always the same no matter what. The point of it is to say, that depending on the varying social conditions of the individual, he may have no choice to act completely freely. At least it is the point I am trying to make. That his actions depend on pre-conditions that he had no control of. That is not to say that the pre-conditions could not have been different.
