i lived in palestine syria lebanon jeddah abu dhabi dubai and i think i know more
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What was the point of taking this picture? (7 Viewers)
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For a second lets forget all the culture and way of life you have been living now. And lets try to imagine that you have no idea of what a girl is like and how they look like whether they have big breasts or tight asses or what. You don't know Alena Seredova even exists.
Now imagine that you are married to a girl and for the first time you see what a women looks like without the veil and then engage in contact, sensual contact. Considering you and the girl don't know what your missing, then I believe it will be a happy marriage without divorces (seeing that you have no one to compare to). You can have Tevez marrying Jessica Alba and they would be happy, not knowing any other person, or atleast not knowing anybody as close to them.
This creates a happy society and family. Of course this is hypothetical but its just to show how a society like that "would" be able to live happily in peace. Without "going on dates" bieng a part of their culture.
would you have sexual images in your head if you met a respectable women wearing a tight T with high skirts? I mean the girl behaves with much elegance but would the thought cross your vivid mind? Doesn't ones thoughts toward another resemble ones respect towards them?
now how much more likely is that to happen as opposed to veiled women...
nobody said that other women are prostitutes...but just to add, even a definition of a prostitute differs between cultures.
Prison thing? Let me ask you this, if you are able to steal Del Piero's signed shoes that he wore when scoring the goal in the semifinals of WC2006 without getting caught or even noticed by anybody, would you do it? Would you be tempted by it?
Does breaking a civil law make you feel free from imprisonment? Civil law=Prison? Because you can't do what your urges and desires wish?
Everybody has temptations, and everybody losses to them now and then.
Now imagine that you are married to a girl and for the first time you see what a women looks like without the veil and then engage in contact, sensual contact. Considering you and the girl don't know what your missing, then I believe it will be a happy marriage without divorces (seeing that you have no one to compare to). You can have Tevez marrying Jessica Alba and they would be happy, not knowing any other person, or atleast not knowing anybody as close to them.
This creates a happy society and family. Of course this is hypothetical but its just to show how a society like that "would" be able to live happily in peace. Without "going on dates" bieng a part of their culture.
would you have sexual images in your head if you met a respectable women wearing a tight T with high skirts? I mean the girl behaves with much elegance but would the thought cross your vivid mind? Doesn't ones thoughts toward another resemble ones respect towards them?
now how much more likely is that to happen as opposed to veiled women...
nobody said that other women are prostitutes...but just to add, even a definition of a prostitute differs between cultures.
Prison thing? Let me ask you this, if you are able to steal Del Piero's signed shoes that he wore when scoring the goal in the semifinals of WC2006 without getting caught or even noticed by anybody, would you do it? Would you be tempted by it?
Does breaking a civil law make you feel free from imprisonment? Civil law=Prison? Because you can't do what your urges and desires wish?
Everybody has temptations, and everybody losses to them now and then.
- vOnAm -, I can see where you're arguing from, but I don't agree. Forcing someone to removing any source of temptation for you doesn't show respect for them. It shows a fear of your own inability to control yourself. I rank that argument up there with that one about girls wearing short skirts being at fault for rape.
For the other side of the argument, covering your hair isn't a million miles from wearing a hat - once an important item of clothing in the West. We're not much more than a century from a society that thought that a woman showing her ankles was a disgrace too. I don't want to imply that that's a terrible thing either. We're making a big deal out of an arbitrary line in the sand. How many of you can walk naked in public? Why not? Clothing is a very cultural thing. I'd be far more concerned about things like voting rights, access to education and the freedom to chose your own path in life.
Speaking of respect, there's been a lack of it from a few posters in this thread. I have a low tolerance for bigotry, and a lower one for agressive intolerance. Let's keep it respectful.
For the other side of the argument, covering your hair isn't a million miles from wearing a hat - once an important item of clothing in the West. We're not much more than a century from a society that thought that a woman showing her ankles was a disgrace too. I don't want to imply that that's a terrible thing either. We're making a big deal out of an arbitrary line in the sand. How many of you can walk naked in public? Why not? Clothing is a very cultural thing. I'd be far more concerned about things like voting rights, access to education and the freedom to chose your own path in life.
Speaking of respect, there's been a lack of it from a few posters in this thread. I have a low tolerance for bigotry, and a lower one for agressive intolerance. Let's keep it respectful.
I definitely like the way you disregard most of my points, and reply only to those which suit you. I agree with you on France, who are equally bad at the moment, but I never saw anyone here speak about France. I never compared anything to Western culture, but you speak about voting rights. How much of that do you seriously see in the Islamic world, really? There's a difference between preaching something and actually taking action.
Please tell me why women get half a vote. Is it just a coincidence that Islam happens to have so many laws which restrict women to a certain lifestyle? You can't seriously deny this, esp. if you've read the Qur'an. Men inheriting more simply because they're expected to spend more, goes by the same logic as veiling women for the lack of self control by men. As logical as they both sound, it restricts the female gender. It puts them into sealed cultural boxes.
I respect Rami's opinions for obvious reasons. That's quite different from repeatedly diminishing ones knowledge and opinions from his location.
You are right about that, and I think freedom to dress as you like is included in that. And while we may not be able to walk around naked in the West, it applies to both genders, if you understand what I mean. Now I'm off for 3 days.
Please tell me why women get half a vote. Is it just a coincidence that Islam happens to have so many laws which restrict women to a certain lifestyle? You can't seriously deny this, esp. if you've read the Qur'an. Men inheriting more simply because they're expected to spend more, goes by the same logic as veiling women for the lack of self control by men. As logical as they both sound, it restricts the female gender. It puts them into sealed cultural boxes.
I respect Rami's opinions for obvious reasons. That's quite different from repeatedly diminishing ones knowledge and opinions from his location.
You are right about that, and I think freedom to dress as you like is included in that. And while we may not be able to walk around naked in the West, it applies to both genders, if you understand what I mean. Now I'm off for 3 days.
I am saying it as the way it is in Saudi, I lived here for 25 years and no book, source, or even logic would even remotely equal that. Once again take it from the horses mouth. Some are opressed, but are a minority, most women do it willingly. And thats the last time I say it, take my word or leave it, I have nothing to loose.
Not all scholars require covering face, the thing that most non-muslims don't understand, that in these non-theological issues and issues not related to faith and belief there is lots of opinions and schools of thoughts and all are credible and a source to be taken. These differences actually one of the reasons that Islam could be ported anywhere and everywhere. Different cultures have different requirments.
And about covering the face, when women go to hajj or umra (pilgramage) they should not cover their faces. A FYI for those opression and brutality of Islam proponants!
Not all scholars require covering face, the thing that most non-muslims don't understand, that in these non-theological issues and issues not related to faith and belief there is lots of opinions and schools of thoughts and all are credible and a source to be taken. These differences actually one of the reasons that Islam could be ported anywhere and everywhere. Different cultures have different requirments.
And about covering the face, when women go to hajj or umra (pilgramage) they should not cover their faces. A FYI for those opression and brutality of Islam proponants!
here we ago again
its clear now that you dont know what you are talking about which is very obvious in your ill comparisions
the idea of wearing a hat is something totally different from that of the covering hair matter
take it this way
covering the hair is something religious ordered by allah in his holy book and we as a muslims are just obeying to it .
the discussion here is just like trying to convince a muslim of something like why preying 5 times aday? why not 3 or 2?just because it doesnt match your principles or logic.
its just like asking a muslim to fast for 15days in ramadan instead of a whole month muslims asked to do so by there god.
onjce again
dont compare tow different things just to try to convince the others by something you seem to have no idea about it and its backgroumds.
its clear now that you dont know what you are talking about which is very obvious in your ill comparisions
the idea of wearing a hat is something totally different from that of the covering hair matter
take it this way
covering the hair is something religious ordered by allah in his holy book and we as a muslims are just obeying to it .
the discussion here is just like trying to convince a muslim of something like why preying 5 times aday? why not 3 or 2?just because it doesnt match your principles or logic.
its just like asking a muslim to fast for 15days in ramadan instead of a whole month muslims asked to do so by there god.
onjce again
dont compare tow different things just to try to convince the others by something you seem to have no idea about it and its backgroumds.
Please do point out the alleged points i disregarded, i bolded the items so it'd be easier to follow the succession of ideas in my post. It's beyond me how you think western culture is out of this, all the words you uttered are you have been taught through western socialization plain and simple; your reality is western.
As for the electoral woes of muslim countries, again thats an issue both men and women suffer from equally(surprise surprise), those who do attempt to practice democracy give equal votes to either gender, i dont know where you re getting your information.
On the "restriction" bit, I believe that's called the social contract where men too have their share. As you stated it's a different point of view, you may disagree with it but are in no position to question its validity of the people adopting it.
As for the electoral woes of muslim countries, again thats an issue both men and women suffer from equally(surprise surprise), those who do attempt to practice democracy give equal votes to either gender, i dont know where you re getting your information.
On the "restriction" bit, I believe that's called the social contract where men too have their share. As you stated it's a different point of view, you may disagree with it but are in no position to question its validity of the people adopting it.
Interesting discussion, guys. For the record, I've always assumed that the hijab was technically "optional" for women in many Muslim cultures. Though that creates social problems when people with differing standards and expectations for women come up against one another in the same country.
So some women do what they please and may dress more Western, but yet they risk the wrath and disrespect of many of their fellow compatriots. And yet other women wear the hijab as an expression of their own personal modesty and respect. THough it's also true that some women who might want to dress more Western feel social pressures in their local community to do otherwise.
An interesting, though external, parallel, for example has less to do with dress and more to do with social context. Just as in some Muslim circles it is unacceptable for a woman to be seen out in the public streets without a husband or male family member escort, in places like southern Italy it was (and still kind of is) notorious for women walking alone to be viewed as lewd and lascivious ... and worthy of men's (often undesired) advances.
So some women do what they please and may dress more Western, but yet they risk the wrath and disrespect of many of their fellow compatriots. And yet other women wear the hijab as an expression of their own personal modesty and respect. THough it's also true that some women who might want to dress more Western feel social pressures in their local community to do otherwise.
An interesting, though external, parallel, for example has less to do with dress and more to do with social context. Just as in some Muslim circles it is unacceptable for a woman to be seen out in the public streets without a husband or male family member escort, in places like southern Italy it was (and still kind of is) notorious for women walking alone to be viewed as lewd and lascivious ... and worthy of men's (often undesired) advances.