What is your god like? (13 Viewers)

[Martin]

You have to make the distinction between his essence and his existence. We know he exists but we dont know what he is like.

What is essence and what is existence?

very true, analogical knowledge is not knowledge at all since we know one side of the analogy only. This was actually an objection to Aquinas made by Duns Scotus (His books are the literally toughest books to understand on earth)
Scotus argues that we have univocal knowledge of god's attributes. Meaning that they have the same meaning to us and to god (when you abstract the attribute itself) the difference is In God they are infinite, in us finite. (as he is infinite while we are finite)
I tend to agree with Scotus for the reason you gave.(don't try to read scotus though as his works cannot be really understood )

To say that an attribute is infinite is to say nothing. The meaning of an attribute is captured precisely in its finite "magnitude". We do not have any knowledge of infinite attributes so to us they are unintelligible. So it's yet another rhetorical trick to say nothing while appearing to say something.

You would do very well in a philosophy major... bravo.

You're the second person to say that today

 

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[Cuti]

my god gives me presents when i dispose of those unworthy.

Edit: this is aimed at no religion in particular

 

[Hist]

What is essence and what is existence?

Think of it this way, We know God exists because there has to be a first cause. How he really is we don't know.
clearer? :shy:

To say that an attribute is infinite is to say nothing. The meaning of an attribute is captured precisely in its finite "magnitude". We do not have any knowledge of infinite attributes so to us they are unintelligible. So it's yet another rhetorical trick to say nothing while appearing to say something.

no no you got it wrong.. Aquinas said kindness in us is analogical (sort of in your terms) like kindness is God.

Scotus gets it from another angle, He says No! We know what kindness means in us... it means the same in god too. only we are finite, he is infinite; stretch the meaning of kindness to no limit.
Nothing in our material world has an infinite attribute because everything is finite.
The difference between Aquinas and Scotus is whether kindness is used in the same sense we know or in another sense. Scotus says in the SAME sense.

scripture mentions nothing about this by the way.. this is just philosophers trying to squeeze scripture to fit their reasoning.

any clearer?



Edit: we dont have knowledge of what/how god is... i just noticed you had a problem with finite and infinite measures... think of it like i have 5 kilos of sugar... and someone else has infinite kilos of sugar.. scotus says sugar is the same in both cases and we know sugar god just has way more sugar..
Aquinas says no, they are different kinds of sugar lol.
bad example

 

[Martin]

Think of it this way, We know God exists because there has to be a first cause. How he really is we don't know.
clearer? :shy:

Why?

no no you got it wrong.. Aquinas said kindness in us is analogical (sort of in your terms) like kindness is God.

Scotus gets it from another angle, He says No! We know what kindness means in us... it means the same in god too. only we are finite, he is infinite; stretch the meaning of kindness to no limit.
Nothing in our material world has an infinite attribute because everything is finite.
The difference between Aquinas and Scotus is whether kindness is used in the same sense we know or in another sense. Scotus says in the SAME sense.

scripture mentions nothing about this buy the way.. this is just philosophers trying to squeeze scripture to fit their reasoning.

any clearer?

No, I get what you meant. The attributes mean the same but they are infinite. What I'm saying is once they become infinite, what do they mean? Their meaning is predicated upon their finiteness. For example, to be kind means to act in a certain bounded way. To be kind is to not impose yourself on someone. If you were to exceed the norms of kindness it would suddenly spill into something else, kindness would no longer be the right word. People would start saying "excessive kindness" or "irrational kindness" or whatever. It wouldn't be kindness as such anymore.

Take kindness. To be kind means to be nice to people in certain cases where not being kind would mean you're neutral instead. So if you go buy a paper from a newsagent, being kind means you smile at him, you say hello, do some small talk. Now enter infinite kindness. What would happen then? Would that mean you spend an infinite time with the guy? Would it mean you stretch your greetings to superlatives? Would it mean you somehow affect him such that he experiences the maximum possible happiness?

You see the problem? Once you start talking about infinite attributes, it seems like they all begin to converge on a singularity.

As for the philosophers, this is why the Catholic Church is such a great gig. Every once in a while they decide to redefine something. Just like that. Why? Because they can!

 

[Enron]

He who is without the love of Christ in his heart invites Satan in to his soul!

 

[Martin]

He who is without the love of Christ in his heart invites Satan in to his soul!

..said Christ.

Which is actually a perfectly reasonable thing to say. If Samantha says "If you don't love me you love Heather", that might just be true.

Me thinks Christ should not be so jealous and paranoid. If I don't love Christ that doesn't imply there's another woman.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Take kindness. To be kind means to be nice to people in certain cases where not being kind would mean you're neutral instead. So if you go buy a paper from a newsagent, being kind means you smile at him, you say hello, do some small talk. Now enter infinite kindness. What would happen then? Would that mean you spend an infinite time with the guy? Would it mean you stretch your greetings to superlatives? Would it mean you somehow affect him such that he experiences the maximum possible happiness?

you mean like giving him a bj

 

[Enron]

..said Christ.

Which is actually a perfectly reasonable thing to say. If Samantha says "If you don't love me you love Heather", that might just be true.

Me thinks Christ should not be so jealous and paranoid. If I don't love Christ that doesn't imply there's another woman.

Those who lack the strength to believe and have faith in something of greatness often lacks the fortitude to stay on the path of righteousness in times of tribulation.

 

[Martin]

Those who lack the strength to believe and have faith in something of greatness often lacks the fortitude to stay on the path of righteousness in times of tribulation.

Hitler couldn't have said it better

 

[Enron]

Hitler couldn't have said it better

I could go on forever. Growing up down the street from a fundamentalist church does have it's benefits.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

is there a god? yes

how do i know?
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/new...after-surfing-web-for-sex-with-strangers.html

 

[Martin]

is there a god? yes

how do i know?
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/new...after-surfing-web-for-sex-with-strangers.html

“A lot of women may call me a slag, but I’m not. The sex is on my terms — I call the shots.”

So what qualifies as a slag then? Rape?

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

i don't think she correctly understands the definition of the term.

"Slag is a pejorative slang term, primarily used in United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland and Australia, to describe women who often engage in casual sex and promiscuous behaviour. Its meaning is broadly similar to the terms "slut" and "skank". It originally derives from the same term for piles of impurities skimmed off during the smelting of metals."

do you have to ruin everything by analyzing it?

 

[Martin]

i don't think she correctly understands the definition of the term.

"Slag is a pejorative slang term, primarily used in United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland and Australia, to describe women who often engage in casual sex and promiscuous behaviour. Its meaning is broadly similar to the terms "slut" and "skank". It originally derives from the same term for piles of impurities skimmed off during the smelting of metals."

She said she's not a slag because the sex is on "her terms". There's nothing in this definition contingent on the sex being on someone's terms. So I said what would have to happen for her to be a slag, for the sex not to be on her terms. Rape seems like a possibility.

do you have to ruin everything by analyzing it?

My dear besmir, it's what I do.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

She said she's not a slag because the sex is on "her terms". There's nothing in this definition contingent on the sex being on someone's terms. So I said what would have to happen for her to be a slag, for the sex not to be on her terms. Rape seems like a possibility.

i agreed with you

My dear besmir, it's what I do.

and you suckered me into it

 

[Enron]

My god is the rumble of a subway train beneath my feet. It's dreaming in the dead of the night that you're flying at the speed of light. The thunderclap left behind from the speed of sound. It's love that cements your knees and makes you notice the speed of trees. My god is riding around town throwing rocks through windows and blowing down doors. It's a tiny dancer, the heartbreak hotel, the pretty girl sitting on a suitcase crying. My god is the strange sensation you feel when you wake up and stretch while you're not fully awake. The carnival of colors that calls your name in a way you can't explain. My good is football, beer, and Fred Astair or even a fool in a barber's chair.

God is everything... God is everywhere... God is the promise of being...

 

[Seven]

There is a moral objective truth. Humans have awareness of this Moral objective truth long before Christianity, Islam, Juddaism. We have aspired to be good throughout our history. This timeless Moral recognition from our part can be seen as divine. Why? Since a Moral objective truth exists, therefore, there was a creator of this absolute truth, God.

Funnily enough a man you always love to hate has made it perfectly clear why human beings can believe in certain moral laws .

After 1859 you have no right whatsoever to come up with this bullshit. You should be banned.

 

[Enron]

Funnily enough a man you always love to hate has made it perfectly clear why human beings can believe in certain moral laws .

After 1859 you have no right whatsoever to come up with this bullshit. You should be banned.

That's the devil speaking Andreis and you know it. Your refusal to accept Christ into your heart has left a void into which a great evil has seeped. Repent and start your journey into the light my son.

 

[Martin]

That's the devil speaking Andreis and you know it. Your refusal to accept Christ into your heart has left a void into which a great evil has seeped. Repent and start your journey into the light my son.

Oh Aaron, save us from the vengeance of the loving god.

 

[Seven]

That's an interesting phenomenon though. Historically speaking there are a few religions in which you see a clear transformation of God. Usually he goes from vengeful and punishing to kind and forgiving.