Apr 17, 2013
3,457
@Raphaël could you please explain me what’s going on in France? And not just now after a cop shot a kid, I’ve seen riots every months for the past years. Why is Macron still president?

Provisional detention of the required police officer
During a press conference, the Nanterre prosecutor, Pascal Prache, gave an update on the investigation opened for intentional homicide by a person holding public authority.

“In the state of the investigations and the elements collected, the prosecution considers that the legal conditions for the use of the weapon are not met” , indicated the prosecutor. “Consequently, at the end of his police custody, the police officer implicated for having used his weapon was brought before two investigating magistrates as part of the opening of a judicial investigation for intentional homicide”.

A pursuit
Pascal Prache detailed the sequence of events that led to the refusal to comply, based on videos from surveillance cameras, witness hearings and videos posted on social networks. He explained that after taking their shift, the police officers on motorcycles noticed around 7:55 a.m. a Mercedes vehicle registered with a Polish license plate which “drove on a bus lane at high speed”.

The two police officers “attempted a first time to carry out a check” by activating their sound and light warning devices by positioning themselves at the height of the vehicle at a red light, after which the car restarted by “grilling the red light” . Three passengers were in the vehicle.

The suspect vehicle continued on its way, still pursued by two police motorcyclists on several axes.

“During this journey, several elements […] show several infractions, in particular pedestrian crossings endangering a pedestrian and a cyclist ,” reported the prosecutor.

The course of the refusal to comply
It was a traffic jam caused by a red light that forced the vehicle to stop.
The two motorcycle policemen then dismount on the side and behind the Mercedes vehicle. “The police claim to have shouted at the driver to stop by positioning themselves on the left side of the vehicle,” continued the prosecutor.
The two police officers then pointed their weapons at the driver to dissuade him from restarting by asking him to switch off the ignition.
As the driver drove off again, the officer near the fender of the vehicle shot the driver once. The vehicle continued on its way before crashing into a post at 8:19 a.m. The passenger got out of the vehicle and was arrested. The right front passenger fled and "is still wanted".
What the autopsy reveals
According to the prosecutor, Nahel was found dead at 9.15 a.m. despite attempts to resuscitate him by the emergency services, including the police officer who fired, who “provided first aid to the driver”.
The autopsy report mentions “one death due to a single shot having crossed the left arm and the thorax from left to right”, reported the prosecutor. "Additional examinations were ordered, particularly in terms of toxicology" .
The prosecution also specifies that the search of the vehicle did not reveal any dangerous objects or narcotics inside.
What the police officer said in custody
During his hearings, the prosecutor reported that "the policeman explained his action by the desire to avoid another escape the vehicle, by the dangerousness of the driver's road behavior". The police officer justified his action by saying he was "afraid that someone would be run over, the fear of being hit by the vehicle when it started or of seeing his colleague, further forward in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, injured by the movement of this car.
The two police officers interviewed said that "they felt threatened when they saw the driver restart, being near a wall behind them".

Nahel was known to the justice services for acts of refusal to comply, the last having given rise to the presentation of the minor before the Nanterre prosecutor's office on June 25 for a summons to appear before the juvenile court in September 2023.

In 2005 it lasted 3 weeks, I don't know how long it will last this time. The murder of a kid is a pretext for these thugs to smash, loot, burn shops, schools, town halls, buses. Pauvre France.



It's a demonstration of the downgrading of France. A kid 17 years old, already known by the police, does not respect anything because he knows that he risks nothing from justice.
What do parents do in their child's education? Like many families, the father left and he was raised only by his mother. The problem is that his mother is out of her depth. Yesterday was a tribute to the kid, here is his reaction, it's amazing. Some adults should be prohibited from having children.


It's a collapse of national education, the profession of teacher is neglected, before it was pretigious to teach knowledge, now nobody wants to do it, which is understandable between the working conditions with kids who do not respect anything and little financial consideration. We end up with kids, who will become adults who no longer think and who have no sense of civic.

There is a question of racism and uncontrolled immigration. We put the same people in the same places, and we brought together the same problems: delinquency, unemployment, communitarianism, religious extremism. The public authorities know that there is a lot of drug trafficking, but let it happen to have social peace. This incident shows that as soon as there is a problem in these suburbs, incidents explode. To this you have the extreme left which victimizes these young people and pushes them by telling them that racism is systemic, that the police kill.



Macron was elected in 2017 on a neither right nor left theory. The 2 main parties usually in command, the Republicans, exploded in the middle of the presidential campaign because of a case of fictitious employment of Francois Fillon's wife, and the Socialist party after 5 years of Francois Hollande was discredited. In the second round, like in 2005 the media told us it's either Macron or Hitler's daughter, people voted for this shit without conviction.
In 2022 it is the same scenario except that this time there is no majority of MPs, the assembly is divided into the center (liberal and Europeanist), the extreme right of Lepen, and the extreme left ( La France insoumise).

This know-it-all criticizes the Polish, Hungarian, Italian governments... but this asshole is fundamentally authoritarian. He would be Hungarian, he would be with Orban for sure. As we saw in the United States with Trump, as we saw with Brexit in the United Kingdom, there is a disconnection between what the people want and the politicians, which leads to conflicts with the yellow vests, and the major protests on a regular basis. Lacking popular support, he uses police and judicial force to impose his choices. Everyone predicts that France in 2027, after 10 years of Macron, France will be mature enough to vote Le pen.
 
Last edited:

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
83,523
In 2005 it lasted 3 weeks, I don't know how long it will last this time. The murder of a kid is a pretext for these thugs to smash, loot, burn shops, schools, town halls, buses. Pauvre France.



It's a demonstration of the downgrading of France. A kid 17 years old, already known by the police, does not respect anything because he knows that he risks nothing from justice.
What do parents do in their child's education? Like many families, the father left and he was raised only by his mother. The problem is that his mother is out of her depth. Yesterday was a tribute to the kid, here is his reaction, it's amazing. Some adults should be prohibited from having children.


It's a collapse of national education, the profession of teacher is neglected, before it was pretigious to teach knowledge, now nobody wants to do it, which is understandable between the working conditions with kids who do not respect anything and little financial consideration. We end up with kids, who will become adults who no longer think and who have no sense of civic.

There is a question of racism and uncontrolled immigration. We put the same people in the same places, and we brought together the same problems: delinquency, unemployment, communitarianism, religious extremism. The public authorities know that there is a lot of drug trafficking, but let it happen to have social peace. This incident shows that as soon as there is a problem in these suburbs, incidents explode. To this you have the extreme left which victimizes these young people and pushes them by telling them that racism is systemic, that the police kill.



Macron was elected in 2017 on a neither right nor left theory. The 2 main parties usually in command, the Republicans, exploded in the middle of the presidential campaign because of a case of fictitious employment of Francois Fillon's wife, and the Socialist party after 5 years of Francois Hollande was discredited. In the second round, like in 2005 the media told us it's either Macron or Hitler's daughter, people voted for this shit without conviction.
In 2022 it is the same scenario except that this time there is no majority of MPs, the assembly is divided into the center (liberal and Europeanist), the extreme right of Lepen, and the extreme left ( La France insoumise).

This know-it-all criticizes the Polish, Hungarian, Italian governments... but this asshole is fundamentally authoritarian. He would be Hungarian, he would be with Orban for sure. As we saw in the United States with Trump, as we saw with Brexit in the United Kingdom, there is a disconnection between what the people want and the politicians, which leads to conflicts with the yellow vests, and the major protests on a regular basis. Lacking popular support, he uses police and judicial force to impose his choices. Everyone predicts that France in 2027, after 10 years of Macron, France will be mature enough to vote Le pen.
Thanks for this. Love the perspective.

Do you think any of this is also enflamed by the pension protests a few months back? At one level, the same part is, as you say, Macron railroading over the interests of the governed. But I imagine the social intersection is very different: the folks who aren't working enough and feeling left out versus those who might be more of the established working class seeing threats to their post-work retirement lives?

And not to be sympathetic to Macron here, but do you think it would be possible in France to have a legitimate social discourse around retirement ages and budgets to fund them without cutting services or raising taxes?

But this isn't about that per se. Lots of echoes here of 2005 though. But these protests I bet aren't so much about the situation with these marginal folks as it is overall discontent with the state of French fraternité, égalité, and liberté.
 
Apr 17, 2013
3,457
Thanks for this. Love the perspective.

Do you think any of this is also enflamed by the pension protests a few months back? At one level, the same part is, as you say, Macron railroading over the interests of the governed. But I imagine the social intersection is very different: the folks who aren't working enough and feeling left out versus those who might be more of the established working class seeing threats to their post-work retirement lives?
There is clearly a feeling of anger fatigue on the part of the French who have been brooding for years.
During the yellow vests, the main protests came from peripheral areas: provinces and former industrial areas in crisis. People are tired of the increase tax and wonder where the money is going? They have the feeling of always paying more taxes and of having always less public service which is deteriorating: the post offices are disappearing, less school, less maternity and hospitals... The anger came from the will to increase fuel taxes, while the car is essential in these places, there is no metro, no bus, no tram if you want to go to your work, if you want to do shopping, if you want to go to the hospital. Those things that disconnected politicians like Macron and people who lives in big cities don't understand because they have everything at their fingertips. This is the theory of David Goodhart anywhere and anywhere.

Macron was lucky that there was no convergence of protests, as residents of big cities and suburbs did not participate or very weakly.

During the pension protest, I think it affected the vast majority of people who work in France, wherever they live, even the small towns protested, the only group that was less hostile is the one that is not not affected by this reform, people who are retired. This time in a cynical way, he waited for the weariness of people, telling himself that with inflation they could not protest forever


And not to be sympathetic to Macron here, but do you think it would be possible in France to have a legitimate social discourse around retirement ages and budgets to fund them without cutting services or raising taxes?
These assholes who govern have understood nothing. During the Covid crisis, for the French it was a schock to see the downgrading in real life: no masks, unable to make an antitodes, no hospitalization place, garbage bags as protection. Macon at the end of the crisis had said "that France would be indebted to those who held the country upright", the nurses, the cashiers, the garbage collectors....
In the midst of inflation and war in Ukraine, to thank them he inflicted two more years on them, without taking into account that the covid has changed people's mentality and their way of seeing work: like everywhere in the world there has been a great movement of resignations because people no longer necessarily find meaning in their work, feel that they are not paid at their fair value, no longer want to work in offices and prefer teleworking...

Of course it is possible to reform pensions, but for that it would have been necessary first to reform the working world, which has changed with the covid. And then make a reform of pensions which requires concerting, listening to everyone, thinking for months to find the fairest and most peraine reform, but this asshole decided to do everything upside down and in an authoritarian way to pass in force without taking into account the French who have demonstrated for months, nor taking union demands.

France has a presidential regime unlike many European countries which have a parliamentary regime, democracy in France boils down to voting every 5 years for the presidential election and then closing your mouth. There is no sense of compromise like elsewhere, in France when you have the majority of deputies you do what you want, except that Macron has still not understood that he does not have the majority. To pass his reform, he used all the subterfuges that the constitution allows him:

- Article 49.3 (allows the Prime Minister to have a bill adopted, not by having it voted on in Parliament (according to the classic procedure provided for by the Constitution) but by linking its adoption to the maintenance, or not, of his government)

- article 47.1(makes it possible to cut short the debates in the National Assembly by obliging the parliament (assembly + senate) to decide on the text after one month even if all the articles have not been voted on.)

- article 44-3 of the Constitution, known as the "blocked vote", allows the Assembly seized to "decide by a single vote on all or part of the text under discussion, retaining only the amendments proposed or accepted by the government".


But this isn't about that per se. Lots of echoes here of 2005 though. But these protests I bet aren't so much about the situation with these marginal folks as it is overall discontent with the state of French fraternité, égalité, and liberté.
These marginals are thugs who take advantage of this event to break, sack. In 2005, twitter, smartphones were very recent, tiktok snapchat did not exist. Today with social networks, there is a contest and instantaneous to be the one who does the most damage.
Problem of integrations, many French people from outside Europe consider themselves discriminated against; more unemployment, more police checks, more racism... On the other hand, many French people consider that they no longer feel in France because there is a clash of cultures with the migratory crises, the problems of secularism, Islamist attacks.

I tell myself that more and more in 2027 there will not be a civil war; macron has degraded democracy and people are angry, the extreme right continues to rise, the suburbs at the slightest problem become inflammable.
 

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