Quetzalcoatl

It ain't hard to tell
Aug 22, 2007
66,748
Why is it so hard to differentiate between fact and interpretation? I don't care about what hoori extrapolates from this, and don't worry about criteria if it is like the silly bathroom magazine list you posted or the patent one you are not even close.

What really should concern you is why you are being so reticent to accept something as clear as day? Why your brain trying so hard to stretch the criteria to make this false at any cost why is hoori questioning a notive I never actually divulged and frantically goes on and on about why this is true instead of just accepting it as true, that's what you should take from this.
Okay let's agree they didn't invent shit.

But how does that support what Dusan is saying abiut things aren't better since they got their "freedom" and they bring nothing to the table since they don't contribute to art and science (like all of us)?

I'm sure they disagree and they think things are way better for them than having not much other prospects than being a submissive housewife.
 

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GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,776
Okay let's agree they didn't invent shit.

But how does that support what Dusan is saying abiut things aren't better since they got their "freedom" and they bring nothing to the table since they don't contribute to art and science (like all of us)?

I'm sure they disagree and they think things are way better for them than having not much other prospects than being a submissive housewife.
That things are not better that's his interpretation which in this case really boils down to personal preference. He might be strictly looking at the downside while you at the upside. both valid imo from a sociological perspective.
 

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
Blah blah blah still not one contribution cited, it's really mind boggling how averse some are to certain simple facts.
You doing it intentionally or you really didn’t get what i said? Nowhere in my post did i say women made significant contributions to the advancement of science, I won’t even go there given how simplistic and absurd that comparison is. I don’t have a problem with your lack of objectivity either; my problem with what you’re saying is one of simple logic: how you managed to link women’s lack of contribution to their entry into the workplace to conclude such entry is pointless (cause that’s where humanity is being advanced?), only to further conclude that it’s created a promiscuous society is quite frankly very sad.

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If Zach had said the same things everyone would have called him out on the bs, but with x it seems most kiss thinking independently goodbye. All my life only other people i have heard saying similar nonesense was zealous mullahs.
 

Bisco

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2005
14,418
:tup: I apologize I offended your intelligent and objective mind.

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@Bisco how do you like Russia so far? The people, food? Language? Society?

Oh and tell me, who's more popular over there, Tolstoy or Fyodor? :D

:D Mother russia has been great if i am honest, however like any place in the world it has pluses and minuses. I find that there are more positives as opposed to negatives. let me tell you what i dislike first, then i will go on to what i like.

i have been living in Russia for the past 4 years and a half and to this day i find winter to be my worst nightmare! i hate it! please note i come originally from a country where +15- +18 is considered cold! so -27 or the hellish -35 is something my body and brain can't get used too. magically and with the grace of technology that goes into winter coats, boots, under garments etc i survive.

the second thing i dislike is Russian Bearcraucy!! there is a paper for every thing you can imagine. starting with setting foot in russia for the first time and every time you leave on holiday. getting my permanent residency was filled with drama, standing for hours on end in long lines sometimes in the freezing cold. the day you get your residency however it feels like a victory

the language. i arrived here knowing very very few russian words, and once you leave the airport you realize how everything is in russian. back in 2013 when i arrived here there was no english any where!! no english street signs, no english in the metro, no english in uni, no english in the supermarket etc. however lucky for the people who will fly in for the world cup they have taken strides towards making russia english friendly which is superb for you guys, but makes no difference for me now as i speak and write in russian after 4 years of torture it's a hard language to learn, and did i mention i hate cases??? падеж это кошмар :D

the last thing i dislike is the people. here it's important to understand i live in Moscow and just like any capital city in the world including Cairo people are not very friendly due to the fast pace of life in the city. so i had to get used to seeing people look literally pissed off all the time!!! regardless of the hour, people don't smile!! the women as gorgeous as they are look gloomy, or in other words they always have a straight face with no smile what so ever. you go to the metro ticket office and you get the impression you did something bad to the woman selling the tickets. HOWEVER once you understand the culture, traditions and more importantly the LANGUAGE you quickly realize how cool and friendly russians are! you will find many russians who speak english, but for some reason ( my guess is they love to fuck with your head at first :D ) they are either shy to talk to you in english, fearing you might make fun of their accent and grammar, or simply because russians by nature are reserved ( many factors go into this, and don't underestimate the effect of the weather on russians and anyone including myself who lives in Russia). it is also important to note that mosovites are super cheery and fun in the summer and less energetic in the brutal months of winter which last anywhere from 5 to 6 months, 90% of the time there is no sun!! its grey and blaaaaaaah depressing. it does affect your mood, something i quickly learned and experienced.

the best thing about russians, at least for me is this: russians are very straight forward and don't beat around the bush ( unlike for example egypt, where being direct and straightforward with people is sometimes considered rude. egyptians will treat you well even if they don't find you a likeable character out of "hospitality" ). this i find saves everyone the time for unnecessary BS when treating people. i know first hand whether from my daily interactions with my wife and her family, or even my colleagues in uni, that if a russian person likes you, he is a friend you can depend on forever. its no surprise therefore that despite seeing my uni colleagues for an entire year, i was not considered a good friend right away, it took a long time for them to know me well, and to trust me. now i can safely tell you i have a lot of good friends ( despite the age difference too ) who i respect and like. Russians are funny, and love to joke contrary to the stereotype people may have, but the key to seeing this side is knowing them on a personal level.

also going outside moscow, you notice the fact that russia is multi ethnic and so you find people with different cultures and a different set of ideals and personalities. so it is indeed interesting.

politically you will be shocked by the diversity of opinions you come across. ranging from people who simply love stalin, to people who despise him and the soviet period. people who love and hate putin, people who are flat out xenophobic, people who are liberal, people who think the EU is going to collapse, others who love it and dream of russia being part of it or at least having good relations with it. Ukraine is another hotly debated topic. so all in all you get to see a different side of russia other than the image the russian state media loves to portray. if there is something i felt deeply by my daily interactions its that the old generation ( the generation that lived during the soviet era ) are proud of their history and proud of being Russian and it comes as no surprise they are the ones who want the emergence of a strong russia, the younger generation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! they look towards the west dominantly.

the food: i got used to the food right away :D pellmini, manti, borscht, and have not been limited to slavic food i actually ventured into the world of uzbek , armenian, georgian, and ossetian food. i can safely tell you georgian food is superb.

I also love the fact everything's in order, meaning public transport is on time ( at least the metro), you don’t need a car if you know your way around the buses and other means of transport. I love the nature here ( particularly in the summer when you are not freezing and always looking for a toilet to pee ).

Despite not going to saint petersburg yet, which is a crime, i know it's filled with awesome places to visit such gorgeous orthodox churches, and museums.

Something i also admire about russians, is their love for reading! Hop on to the metro and you will find a lot of passengers are reading whether it is the metro newspaper,or books and ereaders. They also read books by international authors not just russian authors which is cool.


Even though its illegal and recently its coming under a lot of scrutiny by the policy makers, it's easy to find movies, series, books, software, games etc easily, they have a russian version of pirate bay. ( its called rutracker but they do get their servers offline often) . the russian version of facebook which is called VK has pretty cool features not found in facebook like the ability to watch movies, series, and listen to music without the need for second party apps even though its interface i find depressing.


now for the final question, who is more popular i have asked all my friends about this particular issue and instead of getting one answer i usually get a long list of others who deserve to be in the list :D however tolstoy seems to have a tiny advantage over dostoevsky. chekov is another writer that is super popular in Russia.
 

Dostoevsky

Tzu
Administrator
May 27, 2007
88,978
@Bisco

man, thanks for the long answer, I enjoyed every single sentence you wrote there! :D And I can't say I'm surprised cause that's what I pretty much expected to hear lol. Honestly, it feels like reading about Serbia in majority of the cases, and I know learning the lingo must be real hell cause знам каква је ћирица и какви су падеши :lol2:

Food and people are literally the same here (not the same food, but the quality of it). We're very similar really so we're quite often called brothers. I envy you for visiting so many places and I gotta say it's a huge shame that you didn't visit St. Petersburg yet! Shame on you! :D I love Russinas architecture and you should seriously visit all (or the best) orthodox churches because they are simply beautiful.

I was watching a show recently where they talked about literature, so a question popped up: who's more famous and who gets read more, Tolstoy or Fyodor? That's when I thought of you, haha, as I wanted to know first hand feedback. It's great to hear how they love books as I think that's a huge factor in ones life. And I know Russians are filled with amazing authors, I read quite a lot from Tolstoy, Lermontov, Turgenev, Chekhov, Gogol and Berdyaev. I read just some of Pushkin while I literally read all of Fyodor. Currently I'm reading Bulgakov, so yeah, I know they are top notch when it comes to the literature and know only the two mentioned.

I also feel you, bro. I gotta say that I'm a summer boy so I pretty much fucking hater winter. I really can't stand it when I'm outside. It's not that I think I'm gonna die there but it's so frustrating and a real mood killer. Everything is so gray, wet and you simply can't feel the energy that you feel during the shinny days and during the summer. But I gotta mention that we have warmer winter. Actually, just today we have 15 degrees here which is absolutely insane for a mid-december period. We see a lot less snow nowadays and it's not that hold, especially not as cold as you guys have it there, despite the big difference in humidity between the two countries.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,776
You doing it intentionally or you really didn’t get what i said? Nowhere in my post did i say women made significant contributions to the advancement of science, I won’t even go there given how simplistic and absurd that comparison is. I don’t have a problem with your lack of objectivity either; my problem with what you’re saying is one of simple logic: how you managed to link women’s lack of contribution to their entry into the workplace to conclude such entry is pointless (cause that’s where humanity is being advanced?), only to further conclude that it’s created a promiscuous society is quite frankly very sad.

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If Zach had said the same things everyone would have called him out on the bs, but with x it seems most kiss thinking independently goodbye. All my life only other people i have heard saying similar nonesense was zealous mullahs.
Show me where I linked their contribution to their entry to the workforce and where I said it's pointless. Also promiscuous is not a judgement call it just means more instances of casual sex. It seems to me you are the one who didn't read attentively what I wrote.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,776
Feminism, isnt that some sort of contribution in philosophy? Plenty of women philosophers there
Feminism is not a philosophy it doesn't fit in any of the branches of philosophy except maybe ethics but that's a stretch. Of course there are women philosophers, but have they written a republic or a tractatus logico philosophicus? No they have not.
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Feminism is not a philosophy it doesn't fit in any of the branches of philosophy except maybe ethics but that's a stretch. Of course there are women philosophers, but have they written a republic or a tractatus logico philosophicus? No they have not.
What are you trying to say with all this? That the very elite in those three are men? What is that adding to the feminism discussion? It's a random statement if you have no purpose behind it. It's like me saying "there are a lot more single mothers than single fathers" and stopping there, pretty useless, random statement.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,776
What are you trying to say with all this? That the very elite in those three are men? What is that adding to the feminism discussion? It's a random statement if you have no purpose behind it. It's like me saying "there are a lot more single mothers than single fathers" and stopping there, pretty useless, random statement.
Lol so mad even though I did show you how we got 'here', but don't worry soon enough you won't have to deal with this cognitive dissonance and will go back to your induced intellectual coma.
 

pitbull

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2007
11,045
Lol so mad even though I did show you how we got 'here', but don't worry soon enough you won't have to deal with this cognitive dissonance and will go back to your induced intellectual coma.
Not mad at all, just surprised of your cowardice/shame regarding your own opinion, you're not answering to the same question being asked like ten times by three different people. You showed the start of discussion, but not the intention behind your statement/question
 

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