It does, as long as you're still in those 25 years. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't, I agree.
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What Are You Doing Right Now? (152 Viewers)
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If I wanted to argue against death penalty, I'd definitely be using the arguments of set 1. Effectiveness of death penalty as a crime deterrent is a matter of several contextual and environmental factors and no one can say for sure that it is an ineffective policy. One could argue that it can at least reduce "planned" crimes. Uncertainty about its justness on the other hand is a very good argument against death penalty because even one example of its incapability of enforcing justice would suffice to question it. Only a few months ago a guy who'd been imprisoned for 10 years and was going to be executed was proven to be innocent after some other guy admitted to the crime. It's unbelievably scary how flawed our human judgment can be, even if made by the most qualified judges and based on the most overwhelming evidences.
concepts like justice are too abstract and open to appeal to in an argument with an intelligent crowd, when you talk numbers and question motives through research you have a better chance of arguing your point effectively. But to counter your last point, the fact that we chase perfection, or that the lack of it should deter any policy, is simply preposterous; the world/humanity/life is fucked up 
Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
concepts like justice are too abstract and open to appeal to in an argument with an intelligent crowd, when you talk numbers and question motives through research you have a better chance of arguing your point effectively. But to counter your last point, the fact that we chase perfection, or that the lack of it should deter any policy, is simply preposterous; the world/humanity/life is fucked up Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
Chasing perfection is exactly in leaving ourselves room to make up for our mistakes and for that to happen we first need to acknowledge our imperfections and act accordingly.
i understand but i disagree in taking single cases where it doesnt work to justify changing it, i believe we ought to compare and look at systems as a whole. for example, it could be that with this system, x number of innocent people will be executed wrongly, but with the other system >x number of innocent people will perish at the hands of killers(just bear with em here ) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well.
this kind of reminded me of this
) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well. this kind of reminded me of this
That's one of my main concerns about the death penalty. Of course putting someone in prison for a crime he/she didn't commit is horrible as well, but in that case there's at least the possibility of releasing him, and paying some sort of reparations (although I wouldn't argue that this does in any way make up for the (possibly) years of time spent in prison).
With the death penalty however, the person's dead, and you can't go back from that. It's irreversible.
Thing is though, this argument is conspicuously absent from both of the sets
With the death penalty however, the person's dead, and you can't go back from that. It's irreversible.
Thing is though, this argument is conspicuously absent from both of the sets
i understand but i disagree in taking single cases where it doesnt work to justify changing it, i believe we ought to compare and look at systems as a whole. for example, it could be that with this system, x number of innocent people will be executed wrongly, but with the other system >x number of innocent people will perish at the hands of killers(just bear with em here ) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well.
this kind of reminded me of this
) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well. this kind of reminded me of this
The trouble with what Hoori brings up is that there's the rational and then there's the emotional. If you're trying to garner public support or support for a public policy, unfortunately you have to play in the latter game. Voters and the public aren't motivated by rational, just like the kid asking Friedman the question about the Ford Pinto. If you're instead dealing with an audience of judges, accounting bean-counters, and administrators -- in the absence of the lay public -- then you can play in the former game.
concepts like justice are too abstract and open to appeal to in an argument with an intelligent crowd, when you talk numbers and question motives through research you have a better chance of arguing your point effectively. But to counter your last point, the fact that we chase perfection, or that the lack of it should deter any policy, is simply preposterous; the world/humanity/life is fucked up Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
i understand but i disagree in taking single cases where it doesnt work to justify changing it, i believe we ought to compare and look at systems as a whole. for example, it could be that with this system, x number of innocent people will be executed wrongly, but with the other system >x number of innocent people will perish at the hands of killers(just bear with em here ) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well.
) then which should we adopt? bearing in mind concept of justice should extend to victims as well.
Btw this one of my main points of criticism of neoliberal economics, its conclusions are not wrong in themselves, but they only work inside a very specific model, where things such as perfect market information or perfect competition exist. In reality, where these things do not exist, the results drawn from the model do not always lead to the intended results. I realise that the simplification of reality is a basic problem, or indeed the fundamental definition of models, but it really becomes worrysome when the differences between models and real life are so fundamental, that they lead to completely different results, but this is not fully realised or taken into account.
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concepts like justice are too abstract and open to appeal to in an argument with an intelligent crowd, when you talk numbers and question motives through research you have a better chance of arguing your point effectively. But to counter your last point, the fact that we chase perfection, or that the lack of it should deter any policy, is simply preposterous; the world/humanity/life is fucked up Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
Our aim ought to be making it a little less so.
