I got them from a friend who got them from a friend who works at a bakery. That bakery had a baking course for its employees by him (Jan Hedh).
Two summers ago I was spending a week in Österlen (where Marty lives and probably Sweden's most beautiful area, I met him at his café there. I had to talk to him, my friends encouraged me and they said it would take 5 minutes, we talked for maybe 15 minutes until they got bored and starting texting me to leave.
That is a vete surdeg, I call it Alex because he made it when he was in Alexandria back then. The other one is called Eva
Surva, I created but she died.