ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,562
before you all jump and lynch the guy, ask him what he means by the term. Jasp's is way too simplistic and cliche. It's a complex issue, that just cant be simplified.
Exactly.

Judging others?

Everyone judges other people, we analyse & evaluate human behaviour and draw conclusions all the time - thats just being human.

I like to think I make my judgements fairly, based on research and understanding and I am always open to my views being challenged - research and challenge are two of the only ways to evolve ideologies.

You didn't make a reply to what I said you just said that people of a homophobic ideology are in general nice people. Any form of intollerance inherently demonstrates character flaws. If you can provide any evidence to sustain you argument that 'homophobes are nice people' then I will read it.

Until then -- :sergio:.
I didn't say "in genereal". Just that being homophobic doesn't make someone a bad person. They don't like gays, big deal. I don't see what proof you want me to provide to show that they're not bad people. Actions are what make people bad, I couldn't care less if someone thinks that way as long as they don't actually harass gay people for it.

And aren't you being intolerant of intolerant people? Or does that not count?
 

Ford Prefect

Senior Member
May 28, 2009
10,557
Exactly.



I didn't say "in genereal". Just that being homophobic doesn't make someone a bad person. They don't like gays, big deal. I don't see what proof you want me to provide to show that they're not bad people. Actions are what make people bad, I couldn't care less if someone thinks that way as long as they don't actually harass gay people for it.

And aren't you being intolerant of intolerant people? Or does that not count?
My ideology is 'tolerate anything but intolerance' (Yarnold, 2009:stuckup:). I will defend someones right to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses right to do the same thing. I couldn't give two flying fucks if someone believes in a man in the sky - if that helps you deal with the fact that you are going to die and your life is meaningless then go for it, but if someone decides to organise it, try and convince other people to join in, take money from people to finance it, rape children, condemn a continent to poverty and suffering thats when the line is crossed because you are infringing on someones right to believe what they want. (this isn't a debate about religion but its the model i use to explain the ideology). The same goes for homophobia - if you someone wants to suck someones dick it doesnt affect me its their choice - if someone opposed that then they oppose the ideology of free choice and ideologies are where movements manifest and if its an intolerant ideology then all it will do it is create an intolerant culture.

Nip it in the bud and stop it before it gets worse. The only way to deal with intolerance is head on - if I hear someone say something racist/homophobic i will demand they explain the logic behind there decision to hold that ideology and then point out all the flaws in their argument.

Stop intolerance at the apathetic level before cumulative radicalisation kicks in.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,935
Indeed, I am coming from a definition that means they would actively bully if given the chance, rather than casually use the term "fag" every now and again.
i think even calling them that is bullying, however not approving of a certain behavior and not wanting to be around it could be considerate 'intolerant' but i have no problem with it and will not hold it aganst soemone
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,935
I don't how see how that issue gets more complex than how i've put it. He proposed it as a perfect circumstance model - spheres in a vacuum. If he posed it as 'you're living in saudi arabia and you have a choice be gay or be homophobic' then its a completely different set of circumstances but that isn't how the question was posed.
ok, but you can tell ALC is no teh type, so least you can do is give him the chance to explain what he meant, not everyone will talk in a precise and clear fashion(far from it as you know).
 

Ford Prefect

Senior Member
May 28, 2009
10,557
i think even calling them that is bullying, however not approving of a certain behavior and not wanting to be around it could be considerate 'intolerant' but i have no problem with it and will not hold it aganst soemone
Tolerance and acceptance are different things. You can be homophobic and still be tolerant of it as you suggest here, I don't agree that this is where the line is at, for me its universal acceptance of freedoms aside from infringing on someones rights to hold their own freedom of choice.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,562
I'm not the one who asked the question, it was revive. I just said that some of the homophobic people I've known have been great human beings, they just don't like homosexuality.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,935
Tolerance and acceptance are different things. You can be homophobic and still be tolerant of it as you suggest here, I don't agree that this is where the line is at, for me its universal acceptance of freedoms aside from infringing on someones rights to hold their own freedom of choice.

i have yet to run into what you describe, it's mostly people voicing disaaproval of behavior or being around it
 

Ford Prefect

Senior Member
May 28, 2009
10,557
I'm not the one who asked the question, it was revive. I just said that some of the homophobic people I've known have been great human beings, they just don't like homosexuality.
I missed the flaw in my argument, my bad.

I didn't realise we were discussing a subjective point, we have different values of a 'great human being' and arguing that wont get us anywhere, my apologies. :tup:
 

Enron

Tickle Me
Moderator
Oct 11, 2005
75,680
Disagreeing with homosexuality does not make one a homophobe. I think that's something we should all recognize.

However, hating people or actively pursuing ways to demean an entire group of people based on something as petty as sexuality is a clear sign of someone being a fairly terrible person.
 

X Æ A-12

Senior Member
Contributor
Sep 4, 2006
88,074
Disagreeing with homosexuality does not make one a homophobe. I think that's something we should all recognize.

However, hating people or actively pursuing ways to demean an entire group of people based on something as petty as sexuality is a clear sign of someone being a fairly terrible person.
What do you mean by "disagreeing" with it? Could mean many things.
 

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