Vote: Have we lost touch with targets and transfers???? (1 Viewer)

JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
#81
++ [ originally posted by LEC ] ++


divaio didnt do anything better then trez, he played alot more, he scored less, he failed the goal x-times...so we felt out of the champions league. i remember very well.
I agree. Di Vaio's job was to score goals, and all the other things were extras. Our way to know if a striker is doing well is amount of goals.
and Trezeguet did a lot better than Di Vaio in that matter
 

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JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
#82
++ [ originally posted by gray ] ++

You have a point; we've won several scudetti and been in a CL final since that season, but you also have to remember that before that, we won the Champions League and made it to three CL finals.

We may have had some degree of success even despite the fact that there wasn't a major clearout after that disastrous season, but who's to say that we wouldn't have been the best team in Europe for the past 5 years if we had made some big changes back then?

btw I'd consider the signings of Buffon, Thuram, Nedved and Trezeguet to be fairly significant changes, and they've have been some of our best/most effective players since they've arrived, and without them I really don't think we would have enjoyed the same post-1999 success that we've enjoyed
you'r right, we would have been nothing without these players in the last three years, but they joined 2 seasons after the 1999 season, and Trezeguet 1 year after, and not right after the 1999 season.
I guess it is not in Juve's nature to do major changes (Nedved, Buffon, Thuram and Salas joind only because we sold Zidane and got a lot of money)
 

Adrian

Senior Member
Jan 31, 2003
6,872
#83
some years ago we finished 6th in Serie A. Surely we needed changes at least as we need now... but what did we change from that season?? what clearout?
that season moggi was ignorant to have back up to key players in the team and when they got injured, and with lippi leaving half way, thats what made the team suffer. last season, that was not the case for juve at all.

That team had all the players we needed back then and most defenders were not washed up like they are. the team didnt have an old average age of starting players like it does now. It had quality defenders, quality midfielders and the forwards were good enough. This current team has old defenders who cant run, the younger defenders are either unjury prone or not good enough, no right back, an inconsistant right winger, no creativity in midfield, and no back up to a main striker. And on top of this, players have been added and still havent fixed the team.

We dont have Zidane, Davids, Montero, Ferrara, Iuliano, Di Livio, Deschamps etc...in their prime like we did back back then.

This team needed major changes. I wasnt expected juve to make 8 changes and still win. The team needed rebuilding, and that was being looked at before Capello was assigned as coach. Remember Deschamps was being rumoured and players like rothen, squillaci, morientes were being looked at while prandelli was the other coach being rumoured and gilardino, bonera and ferrari were wrapped up basically. But once Capello came in, Zebina was bought on a free and kapo as well. Chiellini a left back who wasnt needed came in also.

Back to the thread topic, YES, moggi lossed touch with many targets.

And Gray, your last paragraph is exactly what i am talking about. Huge changes can work at times, this is what should have happened this summer but it hasnt. I dont think a transfer market has seen such an abundance of players young talent available. at least 6 quality defenders, many midfielders, loads of strikers...and what has moggi brought?? CAZO!!
 

Desmond

Senior Member
Jul 12, 2002
8,938
#84
we could have sold a star and made significant changes to the team this summer,but we haven't.even without selling there is no excuse not to spend,and the amount is hardly the issue here.

roma have spent less on mexes and ferrari combined compared to our purchase of emerson;that is what i call smart buying:spending less and getting more in return.

moggi has spent less alright...but we've gotten far less than we need.
 

JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
#85
++ [ originally posted by Adrian ] ++


that season moggi was ignorant to have back up to key players in the team and when they got injured, and with lippi leaving half way, thats what made the team suffer. last season, that was not the case for juve at all.

That team had all the players we needed back then and most defenders were not washed up like they are. the team didnt have an old average age of starting players like it does now. It had quality defenders, quality midfielders and the forwards were good enough. This current team has old defenders who cant run, the younger defenders are either unjury prone or not good enough, no right back, an inconsistant right winger, no creativity in midfield, and no back up to a main striker. And on top of this, players have been added and still havent fixed the team.

We dont have Zidane, Davids, Montero, Ferrara, Iuliano, Di Livio, Deschamps etc...in their prime like we did back back then.

This team needed major changes. I wasnt expected juve to make 8 changes and still win. The team needed rebuilding, and that was being looked at before Capello was assigned as coach. Remember Deschamps was being rumoured and players like rothen, squillaci, morientes were being looked at while prandelli was the other coach being rumoured and gilardino, bonera and ferrari were wrapped up basically. But once Capello came in, Zebina was bought on a free and kapo as well. Chiellini a left back who wasnt needed came in also.

Back to the thread topic, YES, moggi lossed touch with many targets.

And Gray, your last paragraph is exactly what i am talking about. Huge changes can work at times, this is what should have happened this summer but it hasnt. I dont think a transfer market has seen such an abundance of players young talent available. at least 6 quality defenders, many midfielders, loads of strikers...and what has moggi brought?? CAZO!!
I can't say I don't agree with you in this post
 

aressandro10

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2003
2,884
#86
depends on whose transfer targets we are talking about..if its the fans or the media's targets, then i wont blame moggi if he dont give a shit. Fans and media tends to go for the romantics while moggi is hired to do his job effectively..
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
#87
++ [ originally posted by aressandro10 ] ++
depends on whose transfer targets we are talking about..if its the fans or the media's targets, then i wont blame moggi if he dont give a shit. Fans and media tends to go for the romantics while moggi is hired to do his job effectively..
Complete agreement that what the fans and media want in a transfer market may be at odds with financial or team-fit realities.

That said, for the obvious upgrades the squad needs after their last campaign, thus far I have to grade Moggi with a "C-" on his report card for this transfer window. It would have been a "D" if not for Emo -- and Capello.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
#89
Correction. I just saw the Perrotta news. :mad:

I'd like to officially change my vote to a "D".

Maybe they are out of money. But it sure seems like the likes of supposedly cash-strapped Roma and Fiorentina have had far better transfer campaigns. And we got a mini-Chelsea going on over at Inter.
 

JuveCampione

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2002
4,134
#90
who do you prefer? Emerson or Perrotta?
I think Emerson is better.

Fiorentina starts from nothing (or if you'd like, Serie B material), so obviously they realy needed these purchases
 

Jun-hide

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2002
2,068
#91
It is difficult to compare 98-99season with the current one. The major reasons behind such a poor season that year were 1) Del Piero then IMO the best player in the world had season ending inury 2) Lippi saga distracting the whole team on and off the pitch 3) extremely poor performance by Zidane due to burning out due after France 98 and 4) injury to Ciro Ferrara, one the best defenders back then. Nonetheless, the midfield and defence of the team were still competitive and with hindsight should have beaten Man U especially given the fact that we gave them a lesson in Old Trafford. The matter of fact is, the current team doesnt quite have place from which to build, and we dont have any major new players to return from injury. Further still, Carla made some shrewd signings that gave us legitimate right hand side player, and backup forward - the major issues which we had to address.
The current transfer campaign assemble none of that - where is our CB? - and rest of team isnt as competitive as back then; Do you seriously believe Montero, Iluliano, Ferrara, Pessetto are as good as back then?
The bottom line is that we need new young players in defence, and attack to rejuvenate the backline and bring back a degree of hunger and freshness. As it is now, there hasnt been enough transfers IMO so that established players feel as if they place is treatened, and certainly that does not bode well IMO. It is pity that Del Piero, Nedved, Thuram, Legro are almost guranteed a place IMO despite their annus horribles last year.
And as for buying too many players would be bad for the team - Look last 2 times we had major overhaul, we did extremely well. The first one was 96-97 season in which we bought in Montero, Zizou, Ametrano, Vieri, Amoruso, Dimas, Iuliano, Boskic and happen to finish 1st in the league by couple of streets ahead and runners-up to Borussia Dortmund in CL - which is by far the biggest shock the tournament has ever seen. The amount of players that bring in and the consequent of gelling together doesnt matter as much as filling immediate individual need. Beside, if players are young and hungry then time is on their side. What I am and certainly I believe most people are demanding is not world-reknown star. Stars are always overrated IMO, and you can find good young players with good scouting. Those who have watched Asian Cup will know that likes of Talal, Hubail can play football, and give big players run for money on their day. What we are demanding is buying young talent who can fill in immediate need and provide some freshness to the team. As we stand now, CB is the major weak-link in the team and some re-inforcement are needed IMO. The point is we dont need Cannas, Samuels, Cavalhos but bargain young ambitious players such as Mexes, Burdisso, Heinze and Ferrari. I am confident on the likes of Kapo, and Chillelini, and if anything else we need more of those signing. And the issue with this transfer campaign is not what Moggi has done but what Moggi didnt do, and given his performance in Calcio Mercato I think he should be the one booted out. Well I doubt anyone fire themself.;). So maybe that is the reason he hasnt cleared out some of our players.;)
 

Trezeguet_FC

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2003
1,888
#93
You people are taking this all out of perspective. Stop sounding like a bunch of disunified nagging fans. You guys should be kissing Moggi's toes for aquiring Capello and Emerson. Instead, what do you people do? Want more. It's like candy and a child. The more you give, the more he wants. If Moggi gets Gila, then you guys will want Aimar. Chill out people. Moggi is just as human as everyone of us. He can see just as good us and his intellect in football is greater than all of us. More players would be nice, but don't make a soap opera out of it.
 

aressandro10

Senior Member
Jul 30, 2003
2,884
#94
++ [ originally posted by swag ] ++
Correction. I just saw the Perrotta news. :mad:

I'd like to officially change my vote to a "D".

Maybe they are out of money. But it sure seems like the likes of supposedly cash-strapped Roma and Fiorentina have had far better transfer campaigns. And we got a mini-Chelsea going on over at Inter.
come on....Emerson is a world class midfielder..he at least deserve a grade improvement...and if there is a coach out there who can turn a D to a A , its Fabio Capello.....i am sure Emerson and Capello is strong enough a factor to improve our 3rd place placing and Champions league..... but i do agree we still lack muscle in defense and not enough cover in attack...
 
Aug 1, 2003
17,696
#95
++ [ originally posted by delpiero10 ] ++


You obviously dont have a clue of how it is to run a football club. You cant expect 8-9 players when the economy isnt good, and after the SCHOCKING 3rd place, oh what a shame last season was, give me a break, you cant win all the time, but it doesnt mean you have to change the whole squad.
Maybe the mentality and system is all who has to change.

If we should have followed your philosophy, then Juve would have gone down just like Lazio after a while.
To be honest with you, I wouldn't even mind if we were fifth or whatever had we played well, but be realistic and don't live in denial ... Juve played horribly last season and obviously some improvements are needed. I, like you wish for the best for Juve and I do hope somehow this season we would improve, but the way things are going... seems rather unlikely.

I'm ok with the transfers but I'm just a bit angry - I mean come on - obviously we NEED defenders! Capello etc were good acquisitions but that's not what we really need IMO.

And I do hope we would at least get some quality defenders (Zebina to me is ok but he alone can't do all the work and he's quite average to me) and I'm waiting, but the deadline for transfer window is getting closer and closer.... Please moggi, save us while you still can.
 

delpiero10

Senior Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,158
#96
++ [ originally posted by Adrian ] ++


if you read my post proparly, i expressed i expected 8-9 players, didnt say it would happen. And 3rd place didnt really give indication as to how bad the team really was and how many faults it had then, and still has now. Now, ive never ran a huge club like juve, as im sure you havent either, but surely you must have thought 5 or 6 players would come in who are quality and would at least fix the teams major problems! Many players have joined or rejoined in blasi, emerson, zebina, chiellini, kapo, zalayeta, but only one stands out as improving the team.

my philosophy sucks but last time juve under went a major overhaul was when zidane, inzaghi, kovacevic and a few others left. nedved, buffon, thuram, salas all joined, all world class players at that time and the team won 2 scudetti and made it to a CL final. so maybe you should just think about that.
And in regards to that team being changed dramatically, it wasnt nearly half as bad as the team was last season. so dont start saying that a lot of players shouldnt be joining, it should have been the biggest clearout in the history of the club.
But maybe you should remember that it was AFTER the record sale of Zidane, Juve had money then!, its only about 3 years ago, you cant expect it to happen every time Juve dont win!!!.
 

JCK

Biased
JCK
May 11, 2004
125,366
#97
It is true that not much is expected from Juventus the coming season but we all hope for the better, I agree with some improvement and hopefully step by step we can have European glory again....I think after the disastrous last season with the big losses we suffered a small improvement is good and we will gain the charm again.
I am tired of being frustrated and angry at the transfers, Capello and Moggi know what they are doing - let us just watch and see
 
OP
Dan

Dan

Back & Quack
Mar 9, 2004
9,290
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #98
    actually you know who i would really like? Matuzalem.. he could be pretty good.
     

    Jun-hide

    Senior Member
    Dec 16, 2002
    2,068
    #99
    Persian Mafia,

    Emerson, Chiellini, Kapo and Capello are all great signings no doubt. But what is the point if we arent competitive in the league? I dont expect us to win league every season but right now we are not only lacking in competitiveness throughout the squad and young players to look forward in the future. There is a difference missing out Scudetto but knowing likes of Marescas, Miccolis, Mexes, and Ferraris are improving and loosing out with the likes Monteros, Ilulianos, Pessettos, and that we will only get worse.
    The point is that what is wrong with Moggi is not his actions but his strategy - refusal to recognize the necessity of young commanding CB, and other fresh talents on other parts of the field.
     

    Eaglesnake_1

    Senior Member
    Mar 28, 2004
    2,308
    ++ [ originally posted by Jeeks ] ++
    It is true that not much is expected from Juventus the coming season but we all hope for the better, I agree with some improvement and hopefully step by step we can have European glory again....I think after the disastrous last season with the big losses we suffered a small improvement is good and we will gain the charm again.
    I am tired of being frustrated and angry at the transfers, Capello and Moggi know what they are doing - let us just watch and see
    This is the right attitude...:thumb:
     

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