US Presidential Elections thread - the fate of the world to be decided (4 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

do you think that the crisis in the US markets will let the Americans vote for obama ??

People who have common sense and are not racist will probably vote for Obama. History suggests that the party in office during rough economic times never wins the next Presidential election.

 

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[Lawnchair Bes]

do you think that the crisis in the US markets will let the Americans vote for obama ??

according to polls, yes

Which is a bit weird for a whole number of reasons. Because how do you know what someone's character really is like if he can't even communicate his ideas? And why would one be tempted to give the biggest political responsibility on the planet to a guy who can't even put his own ideas into words?



Well, let's just hope Obama wins. There might be hope for America, and the world, after all.

i guess they would say how could someone give the same power to someone who has no morals and character (whatever that is)

 

[Seven]

But we're socialists with no concept of freedom of expression.

Btw I couldn't agree more. You'd never hear this kind of bs in Norway, meanwhile the slimy political climate in Poland seems to be imitating the yanks, it's sickening.


It's really interesting that there are no repercussions whatsoever to false advertising in political campaigns. If you're selling a product and you're bashing the competitor, you'll get in trouble for false advertising. But in politics you can say anything (in the same block of tv ads) and get away with it. There are just no standards whatsoever.

Yeah, I find that fascinating as well. Especially because Obama has truly been insulted. It's not about opinions anymore, it's really nasty. If I were American and I wanted to vote for McCain before all these ads came up, I wouldn't vote anymore now.

Another thing I noticed is how McCain likes to say: let's talk about facts, let's talk about actions. And then he goes on about things Obama supposedly did wrong or didn't do. And then afterwards it becomes clear that the facts are completely different.

Spot on about the socialism by the way. You know what, I'm going to piss a Republican off .

Hey, Vinman, which European country still has communists?

That's right: ITALY.

People who have common sense and are not racist will probably vote for Obama. History suggests that the party in office during rough economic times never wins the next Presidential election.

Although that's a bit shortsighted.

 

[Bjerknes]

a buddy of mine was telling me conservatives are more prone to value someones worth through his character rather than his ability to comunicate ideas clearly

But we're socialists with no concept of freedom of expression.

Btw I couldn't agree more. You'd never hear this kind of bs in Norway, meanwhile the slimy political climate in Poland seems to be imitating the yanks, it's sickening.


It's really interesting that there are no repercussions whatsoever to false advertising in political campaigns. If you're selling a product and you're bashing the competitor, you'll get in trouble for false advertising. But in politics you can say anything (in the same block of tv ads) and get away with it. There are just no standards whatsoever.

Here ya go.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/the_backfire_effect.html

Political scientists Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler provided two groups of volunteers with the Bush administration's prewar claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. One group was given a refutation -- the comprehensive 2004 Duelfer report that concluded that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction before the United States invaded in 2003. Thirty-four percent of conservatives told only about the Bush administration's claims thought Iraq had hidden or destroyed its weapons before the U.S. invasion, but 64 percent of conservatives who heard both claim and refutation thought that Iraq really did have the weapons. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.

A similar "backfire effect" also influenced conservatives told about Bush administration assertions that tax cuts increase federal revenue. One group was offered a refutation by prominent economists that included current and former Bush administration officials. About 35 percent of conservatives told about the Bush claim believed it; 67 percent of those provided with both assertion and refutation believed that tax cuts increase revenue.

Italics mine. Nyhan and Reifler found this "backfire" effect only among conservatives. Refutations had little effect on liberals, but it didn't cause them to actively believe the misleading information even more strongly.

That's correct, you got it. Conservatives hate reality.

We are so, so doomed with their increasing efforts to dumb down the people.

 

[Enron]

GO GO GO John McCain!!

Don't bring that nonsense in here wee boy.

 

[Enron]

They were meant as rhetorical questions, so didn't mean to insult your intelligence. I apologize if that's how they came off.

No worries.

 

[Martin]

I saw an interesting comment the other day that leads right up to this.

But then voting season comes and reminds you that all those Americans that are individually sane and normal tend to be collectively crazy and very odd. And that's when you really notice that you're not in Finland any more.

That's when you also notice that the whole US voting system is apparently expressly designed to be polarizing (winner-take-all electoral system etc). To somebody from Finland, that looks like a rather obvious and fundamental design flaw. In Finland, government is quite commonly a quilt-work of different parties, and the "rainbow coalition" of many many parties working together was the norm for a long time. And it seems to result in much more civilized political behaviour.

And it's true, isn't it. I've never seen such a dramatic Us vs Them tribalism in the political climate anywhere else. The last few elections haven't even been about issues, they've been like Inter<->Juve trash talk. It matters not what happened, only who wins. You rarely even see people trying to refute claims, they just sling mud across the aisle instead, cause that's emotionally more effective.

And this deep divide just makes people think that if they're not on the winning side the world will end (as indeed we do in this thread). There's no unity, no compromise, no cooperation.

 

[Enron]

I'm watching the debate on Belgian tv now and it's pretty funny.

McCain: "Obama wants you to *insert random bad thing*."
Obama: "I never said that."

Now I don't know everything about American politics. But I do know that something is wrong with what McCain is trying to tell everyone. Obama's obviously telling the truth, otherwise it would be too easy for McCain to make him out to be a liar. Which means McCain is deliberately putting words in Obama's mouth, which is something Obama does not deem necessary. YOU DON'T MISQUOTE PEOPLE. What's odd though is that this is obviously rule no.1 in any honest highschool debate. That McCain is using these tactics on national tv is pretty sad.

The best part was when McCain almost called Obama a nigger. He was like "There was this bill and blahblahbal. You know who voted for it? This...one..."

 

[Bjerknes]

The best part was when McCain almost called Obama a nigger. He was like "There was this bill and blahblahbal. You know who voted for it? This...one..."

He freely uses the word Gook in public, so I'm sure that word is in his usual vocab too.

 

[Martin]

LOL @ Andy's signature. I see you went with the McCain choice

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

LOL @ Andy's signature. I see you went with the McCain choice

it's a political ideology that not only transends countries, but also disciplines

 

[Bjerknes]

Although that's a bit shortsighted.

It usually rings true in the US at least. Not sure about around the rest of the world.

LOL @ Andy's signature. I see you went with the McCain choice

Indeed, my hate for conservatives even stems into football.

Ranieri and McCain are two peas in a pod. McCain is the Claudio Ranieri of US politics... hasn't won a war and can't remember the correct tactics for the life of him.

 

[Enron]

Here's a good one. When it comes to Obama... The Fox is just wrong.

 

[Alen]

History suggests that the party in office during rough economic times never wins the next Presidential election.

Do it like the Byzantians used to do it in such tough times. Coup d'état and cut off the emperors nose and the noses of his sons so they can't rule anymore.
You need to have that rule : Handicapped people can not rule the country.
On the contrary you have one doing that and another one being a presidential nominee.

 

[Osman]

Here's a good one. When it comes to Obama... The Fox is just wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJox3lZGNgg&feature=related

You can only laugh


Because the alternative it just too sad to process. Not to be overdramatic, but this channel seriously makes me lose hope in all of humanity,

 

[Bjerknes]

Here's a good one. When it comes to Obama... The Fox is just wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJox3lZGNgg&feature=related

For the love of...

 

[Bjerknes]

Do it like the Byzantians used to do it in such tough times. Coup d'état and cut off the emperors nose and the noses of his sons so they can't rule anymore.
You need to have that rule : Handicapped people can not rule the country.
On the contrary you have one doing that and another one being a presidential nominee.

Sad but true.

 

[Bjerknes]

Because the alternative it just too sad to process. Not to be overdramatic, but this channel seriously makes me lose hope in all of humanity,

No, not all humanity. Just the people who watch it, which is unfortunately a large portion of this country. Those people have no hope, that's for sure.

 

[Ahmed]

what the fuck...they let them get away with that kind of blatant lying

 

[Geof]

I'm not convinced by Obama yet, really. He just doesn't seem to have a general plan or anything. Or at least, it didn't come through on this side of the Atlantic.

But for the love of God, surely no sane person would ever vote for McCain?

I've been told that Democrats have a more proctectionist trade policy, so for Europeans, we're better off with Republicans. Ummm yeah right, I really feel the benefits of 8 years of some republican guy in office now!