UK Politics (23 Viewers)

[Trequartista]

would you buy a house next to a nuclear power station?

who is the actual left?

Usually there are perimeters around nuclear stations so the house wouldn't be right next to it. In any case, I wouldn't mind, the French have proven that nuclear energy can work extremely well.

The actual left? A left that is not in favor of de-industrialization, mass immigration and the destruction of borders. These things hurt workers yet parties like Labour and the Greens are in favor of all those things (directly or indirectly).

 

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[Martin]

Usually there are perimeters around nuclear stations so the house wouldn't be right next to it. In any case, I wouldn't mind, the French have proven that nuclear energy can work extremely well.

The actual left? A left that is not in favor of de-industrialization, mass immigration and the destruction of borders. These things hurt workers yet parties like Labour and the Greens are in favor of all those things (directly or indirectly).

What is the ideal that you're referring to? Whom would you back?

 

[Ocelot]

If they were serious they'd be in favor of nuclear energy, which is infinitely more reliable and efficient than wind or solar and it's relatively clean (excluding nuclear waste).

However, they seem to be just another group of ignorant and delusional champagne leftists who are a nuisance to the actual worker's left, which barely exists anymore.

Which is a huge deal tough.


And that's my main problem with the political landscape of basically every nation nowadays.

 

[Trequartista]

Which is a huge deal tough.


And that's my main problem with the political landscape of basically every nation nowadays.

Nuclear waste is problematic but it's manageable.

What is the ideal that you're referring to? Whom would you back?

Of the main parties in Western countries? Almost none fit those criteria.

 

[Martin]

Of the main parties in Western countries? Almost none fit those criteria.

I haven't voted in years (not a citizen in .nl) but I'd vote for the Greens back in Norway.

 

[Ford Prefect]

If they were serious they'd be in favor of nuclear energy, which is infinitely more reliable and efficient than wind or solar and it's relatively clean (excluding nuclear waste).

However, they seem to be just another group of ignorant and delusional champagne leftists who are a nuisance to the actual worker's left, which barely exists anymore.

Are we talking about the UK or elsewhere? The worker's left is, and has been for a long time, the trade unions - TUC/UNITE/NFU/NUS/NTL/RMTU etc. etc. in the UK and they are closely linked with the Green party here and Labour, until the Falkirk issue.

 

[Enron]

Where is the best place to invest in Silver? @Bjerknes

The mine.

 

[Trequartista]

Are we talking about the UK or elsewhere? The worker's left is, and has been for a long time, the trade unions - TUC/UNITE/NFU/NUS/NTL/RMTU etc. etc. in the UK and they are closely linked with the Green party here and Labour, until the Falkirk issue.

About both but it applies to the UK especially. The Greens and Labour may be linked with trade unions but they're not promoting anything that actually benefits workers.

Essentially, trade unions are getting shafted by the political parties they support.

 

[Enron]

About both but it applies to the UK especially. The Greens and Labour may be linked with trade unions but they're not promoting anything that actually benefits workers.

Essentially, trade unions are getting shafted by the political parties they support.

That's happening everywhere not just the UK. It's a good thing too, because we all know how terrible unions are for workers.

 

[Ford Prefect]

About both but it applies to the UK especially. The Greens and Labour may be linked with trade unions but they're not promoting anything that actually benefits workers.

Essentially, trade unions are getting shafted by the political parties they support.

I think the 'worker' has changed somewhat in the past 30 years. Technology and globalisation have shifted the political landscape.The UK doesn't make anything anymore so there is no grass roots desire for worker's rights beyond the TFU/RMT strikes that go off every few months.

 

[Trequartista]

That's happening everywhere not just the UK. It's a good thing too, because we all know how terrible unions are for workers.

Pretty much.

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I think the 'worker' has changed somewhat in the past 30 years. Technology and globalisation have shifted the political landscape.The UK doesn't make anything anymore so there is no grass roots desire for worker's rights beyond the TFU/RMT strikes that go off every few months.

And that's why your country's economy and finances are in an abysmal state.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Pretty much.

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And that's why your country's economy and finances are in an abysmal state.

Its a market economy - why build something here when it can be build elsewhere cheaper? A lot of the production that happens here is only because of the EU and our links to the European free market, which the right would have us leave.

We need an Agrarian society, but you'd always have issues with the revolting peasants...revolting.

 

[Trequartista]

Its a market economy - why build something here when it can be build elsewhere cheaper? A lot of the production that happens here is only because of the EU and our links to the European free market, which the right would have us leave.

Because de-industrialization destroyed good jobs with solid wages. True, you get cheaper products that way but it also destroys the middle class.

You don't need to be part of the EU to be part of the single market. Norway is part of the single market but it's not in the EU. The EU is bad because it's undemocratic and it's increasingly centralized, destroying the nation-states of Europe.

UKIP are ludicrous but they're right about the EU.

 

[Enron]

Its a market economy - why build something here when it can be build elsewhere cheaper? A lot of the production that happens here is only because of the EU and our links to the European free market, which the right would have us leave.

We need an Agrarian society, but you'd always have issues with the revolting peasants...revolting.

Simple solution is for workers to accept lower wages. Make the UK competitive with China and Mexico. Bring back industry to Englaterra.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I was posing the hypothetical question from the perspective of a business large/small.

I agree that there is a delicate balance between worker conditions/renumeration and the health of an economy and its one that has gone a little wrong in the UK but for a 'moral' economy to be able to sustain a 'working class' they have to provide a system of state welfare to ensure that if they are resigned to a life of limited earning that they receive fair remuneration from the state, to be able to sustain that you have to tax the richest!

 

[Ocelot]

Simple solution is for workers to accept lower wages. Make the UK competitive with China and Mexico. Bring back industry to Englaterra.

It would be a "solution" from a certain point of view perhaps, but not one that would benefit workers or the broad masses in general.

The main problem is the extreme divergence between capital and labour returns that has emerged over the past few deacades, has been even more accelarated by the recent crisis and shows no sign of stopping anytime soon.

Of course the real issue with this is that technology and the removal of any capital/trade restrictions (not necessarily a bad thing) has allowed the private sector to operate hardly without problems on a global level, while the public sector naturally is still extremely nationally and regionally limited and any efficent international or even global coordination is a virtual impossibility.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I'm in the mood for 1984 now "if there was hope, it lay in the proles"

 

[Enron]

It would be a "solution" from a certain point of view perhaps, but not one that would benefit workers or the broad masses in general.

The main problem is the extreme divergence between capital and labour returns that has emerged over the past few deacades, has been even more accelarated by the recent crisis and shows no sign of stopping anytime soon.

Of course the real issue with this is that technology and the removal of any capital/trade restrictions (not necessarily a bad thing) has allowed the private sector to operate hardly without problems on a global level, while the public sector naturally is still extremely nationally and regionally limited and any efficent international or even global coordination is a virtual impossibility.

If the poor get too poor the rich will help them out. Or the poor can eat them!

 

[Ocelot]

If the poor get too poor the rich will help them out. Or the poor can eat them!

This has literally never worked in the history of mankind other than in isolated cases which are relatively arbitrary in the broad picture, and offset by a multitude by other examples of exploitation.

 

[Ford Prefect]

This has literally never worked in the history of mankind other than in isolated cases which are relatively arbitrary in the broad picture, and offset by a multitude by other examples of exploitation.

There's order in the chaos somewhere, if all the systems are worked out, a balance of skill/renumeration can be struck to ensure that everyone is fairly treatment for their contribution to human civilization but no one with power wants it to be worked out, because they stand to lose.