UEFA Coefficient (6 Viewers)

[RavaneVialli]

So it doesn't matter to you if we were say Dynamo Kiev of 1999? A big club in a weak league that wins every year pretty much by default?

As long as we reach CL final or semi-final every year: why not? In addition, it's not like the league is totally falling off. I'd say, with strong Fiorentina, Genoa, Napoli, also Lazio being in similar condition to us and slowly regaining their strenght, with us themselves strenghtening big time as well as Inter, it's even more competitive than it was two years ago. I can see a progress of the league, though I don't care much about other teams and Italian football. It's a mystery for me why those who care can't se it, though. Really, there's no need to be cronish here.

 

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[only-juve]

In the end, if italians lose that 4th spot and the germans will gain that spot its because german clubs did all the right steps to be there. Yeah it sucks big time that serie A went from being the best league in the world 10 years ago to its current state but they have no one else to blame but themselves.

 

[Snoop]

Its not about supporting other teams. Jesus Christ already. It's about supporting the league and the relative quality and health of it. No one here is "rooting" for Inter or Milan.

But to sit there and say, "I don't care about the rest of the league as long as Juve, blah, blah,blah" is just crazy.

Let me just re-iterate this, for the 17th time in the past hour.


NO ONE IS SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD ROOT FOR OTHER TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

But how can anybody honestly sit here today and say that the league is on the rise, or the bleeding has stopped?? No it hasn't. Every year, one or two major stars are leaving, and the Serie A used to be the league where the stars ran to, not ran from.

There won't be much of a league if Serie A continues to fall the way it has. And it will be Juve and INter and everyone else, and that is not a fun league to watch at all, regardless of where your affiliations lie

Two stars? who Kaka and Ibrahimovic? Those were ridiculous offers which were stupid to reject! Manchester united sold Christian Ronaldo, are the league in fall? Yes I will say it again, Italian league is on the rise, I am not saying they are the top league in the world or something of that sort, Italian league hit the bottom few years ago, and things are going back to normal again. One should be blind to not seeing that, all I am saying the league and the teams started to improve since last year, and it will keep going on that way, Italian league is not going down any further, it hit the bottom few years back, and for that reason the league is paying with these coefficient points, 1 or 2 years later or maybe 3, you will see the difference between the Italian league's points and Germans'.

 

[Martin]

Its not about supporting other teams. Jesus Christ already. It's about supporting the league and the relative quality and health of it. No one here is "rooting" for Inter or Milan.

But to sit there and say, "I don't care about the rest of the league as long as Juve, blah, blah,blah" is just crazy.

Let me just re-iterate this, for the 17th time in the past hour.


NO ONE IS SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD ROOT FOR OTHER TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

But how can anybody honestly sit here today and say that the league is on the rise, or the bleeding has stopped?? No it hasn't. Every year, one or two major stars are leaving, and the Serie A used to be the league where the stars ran to, not ran from.

There won't be much of a league if Serie A continues to fall the way it has. And it will be Juve and INter and everyone else, and that is not a fun league to watch at all, regardless of where your affiliations lie

I can't believe there are so few people here who agree with me on this.

 

[IrishZebra]

I can't believe there are so few people here who agree with me on this.

Nobody heres going to contend that the league has stopped haemorreging in a complete sense, but as you said, italian football is reactive not proactive, now because the new tv deal (900m euro between 20 teams) and the breaky-away the prosperity of the league will be quite a bit larger in 5 years time or so.

What the league really needs is a team to have success doing all the things that the whole league needs to do for itself,

Say perhaps a team that owned their own stadium, invested in youth, made a profit and played a more continental style game at least on paper,

Now, where could we find such a team?

The bleeding is stopping, it hasnt stopped yet, but its stopping we're going further towards the abyss but we are decelerating, and in Serie A surely thats the best we can do at the moment

 

[KB824]

Nobody heres going to contend that the league has stopped haemorreging in a complete sense, but as you said, italian football is reactive not proactive, now because the new tv deal (900m euro between 20 teams) and the breaky-away the prosperity of the league will be quite a bit larger in 5 years time or so.

What the league really needs is a team to have success doing all the things that the whole league needs to do for itself,

Say perhaps a team that owned their own stadium, invested in youth, made a profit and played a more continental style game at least on paper,

Now, where could we find such a team?

The bleeding is stopping, it hasnt stopped yet, but its stopping we're going further towards the abyss but we are decelerating, and in Serie A surely thats the best we can do at the moment

Now, I understand that Martin is the resident genius of the boards, but uhhhhh...........I said that. Not him. :rndh:

 

[Bjerknes]

"As long as this, as long as that" is what people always say.

I don't think people quite understand how big football business works.

By wishing the death of the others around, you are in turn wishing death upon yourself.

 

[Bjerknes]

Its not about supporting other teams. Jesus Christ already. It's about supporting the league and the relative quality and health of it. No one here is "rooting" for Inter or Milan.

But to sit there and say, "I don't care about the rest of the league as long as Juve, blah, blah,blah" is just crazy.

Let me just re-iterate this, for the 17th time in the past hour.


NO ONE IS SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD ROOT FOR OTHER TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

This made me laugh. I like that.

 

[KB824]

The bottom line is this.

Juve are setting the precedent right now for the way a Serie A club should be run, from its finances, toits player development, to its forward thinking practices in the contruction of a wholly owned and operated stadium.

No one is disputing that, and from an entirely slefish point of view, that is excellent.


The point that I've been trying to make is that I am extremely frustrated, disappointed, whatever you want to call it, at the lack of forward thinking and progress of pracitcally every other team in the league, and nothing was being done about it until just recently.

The majority of the facilities are deplorable, and to be honest, that is an insult to deplorable facilities around the world.

The inherent lack of common sense economics among some of the larger clubs, and to a degree the smaller clubs is so embarrasing that most of these owners shouldn't be alowed to run a night club, never mind a football club.

There are reasons why Euro 2008, 2012, and possibly 2016, along with World Cups for the next 20 years, will not be on Italy's shores anytime soon.

For a supposed first class footballing nation and league, the package that they present to the governing bodies of UEFA and FIFA are quite embarrassing, to tell you the truth.

Its pretty sad when teams in the EPL such as Birmingham City and Burnley have better stadia and overall facilities than half of the squads in Serie A.

Pretty sad, indeed.

I'm sure Serie A and Lega Clacio will wake up someday. I just hope it won't be too late.

 

[C4ISR]

Serie A losing the fourth spot in CL is the fastest way to... regain it. Fourth German club will be as successful in CL as Fiorentina is now, while fourth Italian club should do definitely better in EL and bring more points to UEFA coefficient than the German one in CL. This can be a turning point for teams like Fiorentina that aren't strong enough to get to play-offs in CL, while they have all they need to take a shot at EL semi-final or even final and gradually rise financially to prepare themselves for the CL level. So this fourth CL spot is at the moment pro forma really, becase even if Serie A loses it, it will be regained as soon as those 4th spot contenders win something in EL and become strong enough to deserve the CL spot.

Why would the rise of German clubs stop once they get 4 CL spots? Their growth would not stagnate once they get another CL spot, it would facilitate further improvement.

Look no further than TV money in Germany. Even a huge club like Bayern get peanuts compared to the top Italian teams. There is plenty of room for improvement in that area, and if the Bundesliga were to gain top 3 status through its UEFA coeffecient, fans would take notice and begin to watch increasing amounts of German football. Broadcasters and sponsors would inevitably clue in as well, and the value of TV and sponsorship money would increase

Considering Germany has both the largest economy and largest population in the EU, this money would be big. The entire Bundesliga would benefit, and on top of the new stadiums and stellar attendances they already have, the gap with serie a would get even bigger.

In Italy on the other hand, trying to sell TV rights overseas would generate less money if Italian teams are doing shit in Europe. That means less money for everybody, Juventus included.

Not to mention your strategy will not work if results over the last year are anything to go by. Italian teams have performed poorly in the UEFA Cup/Europa league recently. Milan were knocked out by Werder Bremen, Fiorentina by Ajax, and Sampdoia by Metalist Kharkiv, all in the round of 32 last year. Why would that change once serie a is down a CL spot, when at the moment, Milan and Fiorentina, and even Roma last week, can't beat "lesser" teams?

 

[RavaneVialli]

Why would the rise of German clubs stop once they get 4 CL spots? Their growth would not stagnate once they get another CL spot, it would facilitate further improvement.

Because the fourth German team would win less matches in CL than it would in EL, while the total amount of points would be divided by four, therefore less rating points for Bundesliga for that year. At the same time that fourth Italian team, which missed on Cl, will win more in EL than it would win in CL, which means more points for Serie A. In addidion, revenue from CL market pool would be divided by four istead of three, so the top 3 German clubs would earn less than the do now (not a big difference, but still, it's better to have those 5-10m euros more than not to have) and top 3 Italian clubs will earn more.

Look no further than TV money in Germany. Even a huge club like Bayern get peanuts compared to the top Italian teams. There is plenty of room for improvement in that area, and if the Bundesliga were to gain top 3 status through its UEFA coeffecient, fans would take notice and begin to watch increasing amounts of German football. Broadcasters and sponsors would inevitably clue in as well, and the value of TV and sponsorship money would increase.

You are wrong, it's already well-developed market and there's not much area to improve.

A large part of the distributed revenue from the UEFA Champions League is linked to the "market pool", the distribution of which is determined by the value of the television market in each country. For the 2008-09 season, both Manchester United and Bayern Munich, who reached the final and quarter-final respectively, earned more than Barcelona, who won the tournament.

 

[C4ISR]

Because the fourth German team would win less matches in CL than it would in EL, while the total amount of points would be divided by four, therefore less rating points for Bundesliga for that year. At the same time that fourth Italian team, which missed on Cl, will win more in EL than it would win in CL, which means more points for Serie A. In addidion, revenue from CL market pool would be divided by four istead of three, so the top 3 German clubs would earn less than the do now (not a big difference, but still, it's better to have those 5-10m euros more than not to have) and top 3 Italian clubs will earn more.

Some good points, but I still have a few issues:
A) You're assuming Italian teams who miss out on CL will be strong enough to succeed in the Europa League, and therefore increase serie a's coeffecient. Recent history suggests otherwise, with Milan, Fiorentina and Samp being knocked out by lesser opponents last year. You're also assuming the 4th place German club will be weak, when that is yet to be seen. Look at the relatively quick rise of Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim as proof to how fast a team can be made competitive.
b) Losing 5-10 mil in the market pool is only a concern for the top 3 German clubs. For the rest of the Bundesliga, having a 4th CL spot which guarantees at least +€15m from being in the group stage of the CL is very good for the overall health of their league, as many teams in Germany are capable of finishing 4th. Also, the money lost from the market pool as a result of the pot being divided by 4 instead of 3 teams would be offset by more money floating around in Germany for the reasons I stated before.

Overtaking serie a is exactly the type of exposure the Bundesliga needs to garner respect and more media attention and therefore more money.

You are wrong, it's already well-developed market and there's not much area to improve.

I was referring to domestic TV rights (money Bayern receive for Bundesliga games). They trail behind the big Italian teams by a healthy amount. They have a lot of room to improve in terms of TV money, and overtaking serie a will have a domino effect that will increase the value of their TV contracts. Viewership will undoubtedly increase with more exposure in Europe, and that will attract bigger domestic TV deals, and also larger sponsorship money.


The only counterpoint I can think of for the above arguement is that it would take a few years of consistently beating serie a in the coeffecient's and gathering exposure in Europe for the broadcasters and sponsors to be willing to offer bigger money. In that timeframe, serie a's fortunes may change and they can regain their position.

 

[IrishZebra]

The bottom line is this.
The point that I've been trying to make is that I am extremely frustrated, disappointed, whatever you want to call it, at the lack of forward thinking and progress of pracitcally every other team in the league, and nothing was being done about it until just recently.

The majority of the facilities are deplorable, and to be honest, that is an insult to deplorable facilities around the world.

The inherent lack of common sense economics among some of the larger clubs, and to a degree the smaller clubs is so embarrasing that most of these owners shouldn't be alowed to run a night club, never mind a football club.

There are reasons why Euro 2008, 2012, and possibly 2016, along with World Cups for the next 20 years, will not be on Italy's shores anytime soon.

For a supposed first class footballing nation and league, the package that they present to the governing bodies of UEFA and FIFA are quite embarrassing, to tell you the truth.

Its pretty sad when teams in the EPL such as Birmingham City and Burnley have better stadia and overall facilities than half of the squads in Serie A.

Pretty sad, indeed.

I'm sure Serie A and Lega Clacio will wake up someday. I just hope it won't be too late.

Im afraid i must apologise for dis-attributing your post, it frustrated me so i thought it had to be Martin

I believe i siad all I really can about this is my phantom rebuttle, above.

 

[Darkie]

Andy and Sergio make some great points.
Forza Serie A

 

[Cronios]

The Italian football is on decline and that will surely affect us in the long run.
Its inevitable!
Actually, i am surprised it didnt affect us as much as i initially presumed!

But Juve has survived worse periods than that and we are still a bright beacon in a miserable championship.
We are still carrying the Italian pride on our Gobby shoulders. And for what?

Out from all serie A supporters, we, the Juve fans, should be the last ones worrying about "the good of Italian football".
Not anymore, not after all what happened. Not after we have seen that they would sacrifice the common good, only to bring down Juve.
They got/getting what they deserved, they brought this to their selves, their fault, not ours! And there is still a lot to pay for!!

I wish Milan and Roma all the worst!!
Hopefully Sampdoria and Genoa will take their positions!

 

[only-juve]

I wish Milan and Roma all the worst!!
Hopefully Sampdoria and Genoa will take their positions!

Genoa likely but sampdoria is unlikely. I'd say fiorentina and Genoa would be 3rd- 4th this season.....

 

[IrishZebra]

Its not in decline its stagnated theres a big difference

 

[Elvin]

All this drama again. Dudes, German club football never was and never will be bigger than Calcio. Even if they do catch up and get the 4th spot, things will be back to normal in a season or two.

 

[JCK]

All this drama again. Dudes, German club football never was and never will be bigger than Calcio. Even if they do catch up and get the 4th spot, things will be back to normal in a season or two.

Experts say that the Bundesliga will overtake the Premiere League.

 

[Elvin]

Sie experts?