Turkey in EU? (29 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dian
- Start date
I m sorry about, what some of my fellow Juventini did to ur thread Dian,
i always welcome another point of view,i m glad u joined our forum
and u sould know there is atleast one European country that doesnt keep its ears closed and shares ur pain on this delicate matter,
by the time the Turks came in from the Mongolian steppes, they were never quited their habbit to terorrise and slaughter their neighbouring countries, NEVER, not even today,
this thing was permited because the Turks had always strong allies, because strenght is the only they ever wished and feared
and since they were somebody else's problem the great alliation only cared how to make profit of the situation,
but now,time has come to face this problem, atlast!
The turks,althought they didnt adapted them self to the 21st century,
they realised the war isnt that profitable anymore
and they made some huge steps forward,
v. slowly, but they did,
they have now,some strong inclination to west civilasation,
the temptetion to become an equal member of the EU made them become more... human, there are voices, and interests within the country now that are working for their complete transformation,if Europe permantly decline their try to become smth better, the Turks will show then, their real face again.
So its for our interest to force Turkey become more human luring them to E.U. because this is the only way to ever find a solution to ur problems,
we sould force them to respect the international laws,
(let them sign national treaties wich would automaticaly resolve the many "national" problems they have),
let them visit Europe and see what peace and prosperity may offer,
further secure the national security in the region and set Economical critirial so high they sould renounce on their army,(their army is the only thing they have now,partially U.S. politics fault)
if they ever let their weapons down, they might become true citizens of the world.
They sould become Europeans first by state and then by name.
When? i m afraid they need 2-3 generations time atleast.
There are two reasons why the Europeans don't want to see Turkey in the EU:
1. The Turks will "flood" Europe
2. Turkey with its 75 million strong population will have A LOT of influence in the European Parliament.
I just laugh at the cheap excuses (like human rights issues and the Kurds) the EU puts out not to accept them. Ha ha.
1. The Turks will "flood" Europe
2. Turkey with its 75 million strong population will have A LOT of influence in the European Parliament.
I just laugh at the cheap excuses (like human rights issues and the Kurds) the EU puts out not to accept them. Ha ha.
How well have you studied the functioning of the European Union?
The representatives of the European Parliament don't sit divided by nationality; they sit divided between parties. Ie. the social democrats from Italy sit together with the social democrats from Holland and all other European social democrats to form a European social democratic party. Hence; the size of nations plays no significant role in the Parliament. The Commission is another story but they don't have the last say in the decision making process.
The Turks would not flood Europe because joining the EU does NOT mean automatic entry into the Schengen agreement and entry would most likely see a drastic turn for the better in Turkey, a strong motive for the Turks to stay in Turkey where the job market would probably drastically rise whereas unemployment in the West of Europe is momentarily significant.
And contrary to what you might believe: we DO value human rights issues.
Good to have you back btw
The representatives of the European Parliament don't sit divided by nationality; they sit divided between parties. Ie. the social democrats from Italy sit together with the social democrats from Holland and all other European social democrats to form a European social democratic party. Hence; the size of nations plays no significant role in the Parliament. The Commission is another story but they don't have the last say in the decision making process.
The Turks would not flood Europe because joining the EU does NOT mean automatic entry into the Schengen agreement and entry would most likely see a drastic turn for the better in Turkey, a strong motive for the Turks to stay in Turkey where the job market would probably drastically rise whereas unemployment in the West of Europe is momentarily significant.
And contrary to what you might believe: we DO value human rights issues.
Good to have you back btw
++ [ originally posted by Erik ] ++
How well have you studied the functioning of the European Union?
The representatives of the European Parliament don't sit divided by nationality; they sit divided between parties. Ie. the social democrats from Italy sit together with the social democrats from Holland and all other European social democrats to form a European social democratic party. Hence; the size of nations plays no significant role in the Parliament. The Commission is another story but they don't have the last say in the decision making process.
The Turks would not flood Europe because joining the EU does NOT mean automatic entry into the Schengen agreement and entry would most likely see a drastic turn for the better in Turkey, a strong motive for the Turks to stay in Turkey where the job market would probably drastically rise whereas unemployment in the West of Europe is momentarily significant.
And contrary to what you might believe: we DO value human rights issues.
Good to have you back btw
How well have you studied the functioning of the European Union?
The representatives of the European Parliament don't sit divided by nationality; they sit divided between parties. Ie. the social democrats from Italy sit together with the social democrats from Holland and all other European social democrats to form a European social democratic party. Hence; the size of nations plays no significant role in the Parliament. The Commission is another story but they don't have the last say in the decision making process.
The Turks would not flood Europe because joining the EU does NOT mean automatic entry into the Schengen agreement and entry would most likely see a drastic turn for the better in Turkey, a strong motive for the Turks to stay in Turkey where the job market would probably drastically rise whereas unemployment in the West of Europe is momentarily significant.
And contrary to what you might believe: we DO value human rights issues.
Good to have you back btw
Hmmm... I need to study that EU parliament more. I always thought that the bigger your country is- the more seats you get in the parliament, similar to the US House of Rep-s.
Of course the number of seats allotted is directly proportional to the size of the country. And the groupings of the different parties can be quite relative, as on many issues they will vote according to their national interests rather than in accordance with a still too broad idea of a pan-European PP or PS or what not. Its power is still quite weak also. Now if there is one institution where national relevance DOESN'T come into the picture, that's the Commission (one commissioner by member state), whose decision-making power btw remains more important than that of the EP.
Now accepting the Turks without letting them enjoy Schengen would reek of double standards. It's like this transition period which almost every member state (bar the UK, for once leading the way in European matters) has imposed on the new Eastern European members by limiting their citizens' circulation in the West for the time being. Hypocrisy at its best, if you ask me. But despite this the Eastern Europeans are already moving West en masse, and who can blame them. The same would happen with Turkey, which is far poorer than any of the current members. What may happen (though in a distant future) is that some of the new members will become rich enough for their nationals to return there after a while (see Spain : many left the country right after membership, only to go back after its economic performance). Regardless, Turkey must stay out, no matter what some of the feel-good leftists and their expansionist, strategic-positionist counterparts on the right would claim.
Finally, anyone thinking human rights records and minority rights aren't the si ne qua non conditions for accession (or even for application) must have confused the EU with the UN. It's for the others to adapt to our strict criteria, not the other way around.
Now accepting the Turks without letting them enjoy Schengen would reek of double standards. It's like this transition period which almost every member state (bar the UK, for once leading the way in European matters) has imposed on the new Eastern European members by limiting their citizens' circulation in the West for the time being. Hypocrisy at its best, if you ask me. But despite this the Eastern Europeans are already moving West en masse, and who can blame them. The same would happen with Turkey, which is far poorer than any of the current members. What may happen (though in a distant future) is that some of the new members will become rich enough for their nationals to return there after a while (see Spain : many left the country right after membership, only to go back after its economic performance). Regardless, Turkey must stay out, no matter what some of the feel-good leftists and their expansionist, strategic-positionist counterparts on the right would claim.
Finally, anyone thinking human rights records and minority rights aren't the si ne qua non conditions for accession (or even for application) must have confused the EU with the UN. It's for the others to adapt to our strict criteria, not the other way around.
I don't entirely agree with what you said on the EP and the EC but my experience with them is only limited. From what I've seen, EP members tend to stick to their party ideals more whereas commission members tend to think very hard about their nation's national interests before they suggest a new policy.
But like I said, I don't monitor them very closely and my impression could be false.
As for Schengen: I don't see why it would be hipocritic to make the Turks wait even longer on entering that treaty: it's not like Schengen existed back when the EU was founded. The West waited to take such drastic measures too.
But like I said, I don't monitor them very closely and my impression could be false.
As for Schengen: I don't see why it would be hipocritic to make the Turks wait even longer on entering that treaty: it's not like Schengen existed back when the EU was founded. The West waited to take such drastic measures too.
The rich and powerfull countries are afraid they will loose their power and they will be forced to make more financial contributions for the financial help/development of the poorest countries,
Turkey and other eastern europe countries may form a new group of power(possibly future center of decisions) within the europe consil,
the founder members are afraid they will loose the total control of military/comercial/political/financial they had,
it is hipocritic to be promised full membership and equality and dont get that,
u could say the international laws and habbit come as a packet
Turkey and other eastern europe countries may form a new group of power(possibly future center of decisions) within the europe consil,
the founder members are afraid they will loose the total control of military/comercial/political/financial they had,
it is hipocritic to be promised full membership and equality and dont get that,
u could say the international laws and habbit come as a packet