Tiago Mendes (2 Viewers)

May 21, 2007
49
how many good players did really struggle with another club ?
quality players will always remain quality and deliver at least something for the good of the team.

there is a great difference between quality players and players who look good, because the team suits them.

ronaldo, zidane, zola, roberto baggio, figo, inzaghi, seedorf to name just a few a quality players ... they did make an impact on every team they played for ...

shevchenko, odonkor, boriello, *insert spaniards in serie a* ... are not quality players, because what they might add to the team does only come out if the team suits their style.

i am not saying that we should have signed one of the above names great quality players, i just wanted to show the difference ...

i think our scouts should have been able to evaluate if some player does great things by himself (even when the team around him sucks) or if he just relies on others to help him.

in a working team even a one-legged could look like he is quality. it's always easy if you have many options to pass to when every other player is running their ass off to receive a ball. that is not difficult.

perhaps they thought that our team would work so great, that tiago would have no problems to get into the game, but as we all know, we were and are in a deeeeep crisis so you can not afford to play tiago in those games.

i find it pretty insulting finding excuses for a player that does not even run 5 km in some games (and there were many games where he was really slow and did not run much like he did not care whats going on).

i do not want to start to tell that i am playing football by myself and do manage to give 3 to 5 assits (or at least balls that enables the striker to shoot from inside of the box) even while playing for a crap team with some retards which get blasted constantly with 8-1 and something.

if you can not deliver or can only play for a team that does good by itself you are not even close to a quality player. (that does not mean that i consider myself a great player, but i don't rely on others to show something)

my personal opinion is that you have to have minimum dribbling skills in midfield for the case that nobody is free to accept a ball.

you have to at least be able to shrugg off one or two opponents to hold the ball until someone makes a run or is free.

that is also a reason why i do not rate xabi alonso that high. if the others do not run into space he can go suck his long balls. afaik isn't he able to hold the ball in midfield until someone gets free. further playing the long ball requires the play to have a certain amount of space ... space you got if you go past an "attacking" opponent, but if you can't get past an opponent and the other team does close down well you can again suck your long balls, because you're worthless in the team.

hell, even sissoko does know how to run past opponents when the midfield is to crowded to make a simple pass.
dude you obviously got alot of time on ur hands and i dont think even u no what ur talking about. go write for tribalfootball not here.
 

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Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
jokingly or not, my only point is, that a good player does add something to a team and is not a bystander for a year no matter for what team he plays in, how far away the country is and how the league is where he plays
sure, but a player should also be given a proper opportunity to show his ability
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
dude you obviously got alot of time on ur hands and i dont think even u no what ur talking about. go write for tribalfootball not here.
that is a pretty good point . . .

please go tell a teacher that someone has forgotten to shut the door to the internet room in your elementary school. you will get your cookies and warm milk soon, until then try to make a point, boy.
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
sure, but a player should also be given a proper opportunity to show his ability
and you are saying twenty games last season were not enough time?

almiron was loaned out after 9 games . . . perhaps if we play him some 20 more games he will look decent too !

my point is that it is nothing to be proud of to play 3 "good" games, when you played 20 games before where you totally sucked.

i can guarantee you, that when our team loses it's current form tiago will fall back to looking totally awfull and out of place, because he does not have the required skill and character to create something by himself, when not everyone in midfield is holding his hand and helping him.
 

Ahmed

Principino
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
I haven't been that impressed with Tiago recently either, but the team is playing relatively well so can't complain...but you have to admit that both Tiago and Almiron got a raw deal last season...
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
don't get me wrong.
i am no tiago hater, but just want players that can help us in good AND bad times ... i'm afraid that if we keep him and let the chance to cash in on him pass by, we will regret it in times we struggle.

it will be really interessting with poulsen and marchisio back, who is going to start in a few weeks. right now tiago has the bonus that he seems to fit into the puzzle...
 
May 21, 2007
49
that is a pretty good point . . .

please go tell a teacher that someone has forgotten to shut the door to the internet room in your elementary school. you will get your cookies and warm milk soon, until then try to make a point, boy.
nah bro, im actually at work, the milk and cookies are for moning tea.
i think i already made my point by ur response yeah?
 

tibike

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2007
1,147
jokingly or not, my only point is, that a good player does add something to a team and is not a bystander for a year no matter for what team he plays in, how far away the country is and how the league is where he plays
Well, Henry struggled at Barca, and as much as I don't like the guy, he was a hell of a player.
Vieira is nowhere near his Arsenal self either, never was since he went away.
Ronaldinho had a poor season at the same team with the same coach. Hell, even Raul had a bad season and he's to Real what Alex is to us.
And Hamsik was pretty invisible in his NT matches until the NT coach finally realized where to play him. The same Hamsik playing great matches for Napoli week in week out was a different player midweek, only to return to his form in Napoli.

I think it is exactly the other way round. There are only a handful of players that can maintain their level of performance for years, or that can shine in any team they play for.

EDIT: And I forgot Trez. IMO the best finisher of his generation, yet he can become invisible for several matches in a row, if not given the service. So, even the best players don't always add something to the team if you don't play them right.
 

v1rtu4l

Senior Member
Mar 4, 2008
6,349
Well, Henry struggled at Barca, and as much as I don't like the guy, he was a hell of a player.
that is exactly what i said ... it looked for the fan like he struggled, but a class player does add to the team nontheless .. meaning he scored goals, even if he looked like struggling and out of place.

that is my definition of class: finding a way to make ones skill count without any help from the team

i already posted how many goals henry scored last season, even everybody would have said he struggled, but his goals stood and if you just look at the amount of goals he scored you would not think that he struggled.

Vieira is nowhere near his Arsenal self either, never was since he went away.
Ronaldinho had a poor season at the same team with the same coach. Hell, even Raul had a bad season and he's to Real what Alex is to us.
And Hamsik was pretty invisible in his NT matches until the NT coach finally realized where to play him. The same Hamsik playing great matches for Napoli week in week out was a different player midweek, only to return to his form in Napoli.
you are mentioning many players whose loss of form have different causes...

even when ronaldinho did lose his form, he is still class because he does make his skill count when he plays..

you would surely agree that ronaldinho was out of form last season when he was at barca ... now look at the stats, even out of form he scored 9 goals and gave 7 assists 27 games. even if it seems like he is out of form, he has skill, so the results come!


I think it is exactly the other way round. There are only a handful of players that can maintain their level of performance for years, or that can shine in any team they play for.
it is true that there are very few players that do always have a certain degree of form that allows them to be always good

EDIT: And I forgot Trez. IMO the best finisher of his generation, yet he can become invisible for several matches in a row, if not given the service. So, even the best players don't always add something to the team if you don't play them right.
i think we must understand that there are types of strikers that did always look crap, when the other team mates do not deliver. this is always with trezeguet, so for my definition trezeguet is not "class" in that regard that he badly sucks, when no one does the right crosses and assists. that does not mean to say trez sucks, but he is only good when the team is good what is of another class than someone that is always good (if it looks like that or not is not important) and does something productive.

del piero on the other hand dragged us not only once out to a win, where we badly suffered ... so that is class

perhaps you could say that a quality play is someone who does not depend on others form to play good ... del piero is such a class quality player ... tiago certainly not

as mentioned above ... even while struggling henry and ronaldinho did have enough skill that the goals, assists did come from their pure skill and not only because others ran for them.

tiago had many games without nothing to show for.

as someone already mentioned even in this good games from tiago he did have the same success rate for passes like sissoko (while sissoko did a few passes more) ... so please do not overrate tiagos performances
 

cyril

Let's roll
Jul 6, 2006
2,689
Good for him. I'm glad he's back to the national team that's another boost for him. I still don't see how some people aren't willing to give him credit for his last couple of games. Our midfield and play making hasn't looked this good for a long time.
 

RAMI-N

★ ★ ★
Aug 22, 2006
21,469
Although he did improve in the last couple of games (and thats pleasing), but he needs to step his game up more if he to stay at Juve and have an impact...
 

Gazzo

Senior Member
Jul 9, 2007
1,745
If I were a mod just for one day, the first and only thing I'd do is ban V1rtu4l for A) constantly reffering to people's immaturity, yet he fails to recognise he is the most immature member here, 2) for being completely incorrect in just about every issue or topic and 3) for making no sense whatsoever and finally for judging players on their looks rather than their ability
 

CAPITANO

58 ' SUPER SIC ' 58
Jul 12, 2006
18,549
Tiago wins recall for Portugal's Brazil test


Juventus midfielder Tiago could make his first appearance for Portugal in 15 months after being recalled to the squad for next week's friendly against Brazil.

A poor start to life in Serie A following his summer move from Lyon last year saw Tiago dropped.

However, the former Chelsea midfielder could now be set to add to his 38 caps, the last of which he won against Armenia in August 2007.

"It is a pleasure to return to the national squad," he told the federation's official website, www.fpf.pt. "Despite being on the outside for the last few call-ups, the truth is that I never felt that I was outside this "family" that is the national team.

"I have worked with endeavour for my club, not only to earn my place at Juventus, but also to deserve the confidence of the national team coach.

"Games against Brazil are always special, intense, and charged with a huge amount of affection, to which the players are not insensitive.

"We want to give a spectacle, search for the win, but without forgetting that it is more a matter of preparing for the fight to reach the World Cup in South Africa."


Portugal coach Carlos Queiroz, who has said he wants to experiment in friendlies, has also handed Cesar Peixoto and Rolando their first call-ups.

There is no space in the 20-man squad for Inter Milan winger Ricardo Quaresma or Benfica striker Nuno Gomes.

Squad: Quim (Benfica), Eduardo (Braga); Jose Bosingwa (Chelsea), Paulo Ferreira (Chelsea), Pepe (Real Madrid), Bruno Alves (Porto), Fernando Meira (Galatasaray), Miguel (Valencia), Rolando (Porto); Cesar Peixoto (Braga), Deco (Chelsea), Raul Meireles (Porto), Joao Moutinho (Sporting Lisbon), Maniche (Atletico Madrid), Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United), Tiago (Juventus), Simao Sabrosa (Atletico Madrid); Danny (Zenit St Petersburg), Nani (Manchester United), Hugo Almeida (Werder Bremen).

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=592028&sec=worldcup2010&cc=3436
 

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