Tiago Mendes (22 Viewers)

[Dominic]

From what we saw in the first three months of the season, Tiago was good enough to get more starts and given more time. But along with the foolish benching by Ranieri came the media pressure, and that's where it ends.

But then, after his decent match against Lazio, Ranieri started him every game. He kept getting worse with each game though, putting in these performances "without personality" as Ranieri said so aptly (regardless wether or not he should say something like that to the press) .

 

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[pavelnedved]

We don't have creative players on the wing in the absence of Camoranesi. Moreover, we don't have any good real wingers except for Camoranesi. We have strength in the middle with Zanetti and Nedved and a fantastic group of strikers. How on earth does it make sense to field a straight 4-4-2???

It doesn't make any sense at all. It's a horrendous mistake to field a straight 4-4-2 when we have fantastic strikers who get the job done and a midfield that lacks creativity and TRUE wingers. I don't care about how terrible our defense is... they will make mistakes no matter what formation we deploy. And no, the straight 4-4-2 is does not protect the defense more than a diamond midfield, so don't even try to argue.

nedved is a creative player (blessed with the highest work rate). don't you ever notice when he plays out his opponent by cutting inside or that he often manages his cross. marchionni is more creative than hard work too.

if you play 442 with our squad then you play it STRAIGHT, that's my point. Yes we have great strikes and this makes 433 a good option, but i don't want to offer nedved or camoranesi for that, that would make no sense. and yes definitely not one of our 2 dm's as we really need them.

sure a defence is always gonna make mistakes (man what a line) but aren't tactics about highlighting your strengths and camouflaging your shortages ?

 

[Bjerknes]

if you play 442 with our squad then you play it STRAIGHT, that's my point. Yes we have great strikes and this makes 433 a good option, but i don't want to offer nedved or camoranesi for that, that would make no sense. and yes definitely not one of our 2 dm's as we really need them.

Your point is invalid.

Nocerino

Camoranesi - Zanetti

Nedved


Just like Lippi fielded us a few years ago. And Marchionni is an average player and has never really performed for us, and Nedved is better when he cuts inside. That's why we should play him... INSIDE.

 

[Alen]

1. Most probably Ranieri didn't want Tiago. It's a fact that he didn't use Tiago much. It's not true that Ranieri didn't know how to use Tiago.
Ranieri knew exactly what we have at the back, he knows exactly what can Tiago offer and he knew that we'd do better without Tiago in some particular matches.
It's been said thousand of times that playing with 2 DMC's was something we were forced to do. There was simply not a place for a player with Tiago's characteristics.

2. Tiago has 3 assists officially.
That's a great number considering how much he played.
But i don't think it's fair to compare him with Nocerino and Zanetti in this aspect. It's the same as comparing the "won balls" statistics of Nocerino and Tiago. In half a season Tiago won't win as many balls as Nocerino will do in 3 matches.

To make it clear, Tiago's assist were made in this order :
1. Second goal against Empoli scored by Trez. Tiago took the free kick from the right, he sends a high ball in the box, Trez jumps and scores a header.
2. Our first goal against Parma scored by Legro. Tiago takes the free kick from the left, sends a high ball in the box, Legro jumps and scores a header.
3. Our second goal against Siena scored by Trez. Tiago sends a through ball, Trez controls that ball perfectly and scores.

These are Tiago's only assists. The shot he took against Siena , saved by the goalkeeper and then Trez scoring from the deflection is not an assist. Tiago wanted to shot at the goal and he did it. That's never an assist.
Against Reggina he didn't have an assist. Nocerino had 2, Trez had one and Zanetti had one. Tiago didn't.

As for why he didn't play after he had a good match.
Well, after the match against Empoli (his best match by far, or best half by far if you want it that way) we played against Inter. We needed defensive cover and 2 DMC's.
After his second solid display when he came as a sub in 58th minute against Parma, we had Palermo at home and Palermo are another team with very good attack but shaky defense. Ranieri decided to go with strenght in the midfield and to attack them in their own half. He guessed it right back then, didn't he ?



3. Why are people here so impatient ? Why is Ranieri so impatient with Tiago, why is Tiago so impatient ?
We're not in emergency, are we ? We planned to be 4th and we are 3rd after half a season. We can't fight for scudetto and there is no "MUST DO" now. We don't lose much with Tiago playing bad, do we ?
We've shown patience with Nedved in his first half season, why are we so impatient now ?
Our current team doesn't suit Tiago. But we payed a lot for him and he is a quality player. We'll buy new players, we may have new coach. Who can guarantee that he won't be the good old Tiago ?


Nothing personal with #1 and # 2 against Andy and nothing personal against those who attack Tiago with #3.
Just my 2 cents

 

[pavelnedved]

Your point is invalid.

Nocerino

Camoranesi - Zanetti

Nedved


Just like Lippi fielded us a few years ago. And Marchionni is an average player and has never really performed for us, and Nedved is better when he cuts inside. That's why we should play him... INSIDE.

you do realize that we play nedved on the left to keep the field wide, do you? it's not like we have zambrotta anymore to run up and down the wing, now we have molinaro who doesn't pose any threat to the opponent. if you really want to play it all through the middle in italy then you might as well ask ancelotti how that might end.

 

[Paolo Sosa]

andy, Tiago is a very good player no doubt about it, but please just try to consider other opinions. look at it from another point of view, our denfece sucks.. so inorder to protect succh a weak defence we need to have two destroyers. Tiago is not a destroyer atleast he is not physically capable to compete with players of the calcio. italian league is way more physical than any other league and players have a high probability of underperforming here. Tiago would be perfect if we had an offensive squad but currently our squad is very thin and our priorety is to cover up for the DF

 

[Dominic]

1. Most probably Ranieri didn't want Tiago. It's a fact that he didn't use Tiago much. It's not true that Ranieri didn't know how to use Tiago.
Ranieri knew exactly what we have at the back, he knows exactly what can Tiago offer and he knew that we'd do better without Tiago in some particular matches.
It's been said thousand of times that playing with 2 DMC's was something we were forced to do. There was simply not a place for a player with Tiago's characteristics.

2. Tiago has 3 assists officially.
That's a great number considering how much he played.
But i don't think it's fair to compare him with Nocerino and Zanetti in this aspect. It's the same as comparing the "won balls" statistics of Nocerino and Tiago. In half a season Tiago won't win as many balls as Nocerino will do in 3 matches.

To make it clear, Tiago's assist were made in this order :
1. Second goal against Empoli scored by Trez. Tiago took the free kick from the right, he sends a high ball in the box, Trez jumps and scores a header.
2. Our first goal against Parma scored by Legro. Tiago takes the free kick from the left, sends a high ball in the box, Legro jumps and scores a header.
3. Our second goal against Siena scored by Trez. Tiago sends a through ball, Trez controls that ball perfectly and scores.

These are Tiago's only assists. The shot he took against Siena , saved by the goalkeeper and then Trez scoring from the deflection is not an assist. Tiago wanted to shot at the goal and he did it. That's never an assist.
Against Reggina he didn't have an assist. Nocerino had 2, Trez had one and Zanetti had one. Tiago didn't.

As for why he didn't play after he had a good match.
Well, after the match against Empoli (his best match by far, or best half by far if you want it that way) we played against Inter. We needed defensive cover and 2 DMC's.
After his second solid display when he came as a sub in 58th minute against Parma, we had Palermo at home and Palermo are another team with very good attack but shaky defense. Ranieri decided to go with strenght in the midfield and to attack them in their own half. He guessed it right back then, didn't he ?



3. Why are people here so impatient ? Why is Ranieri so impatient with Tiago, why is Tiago so impatient ?
We're not in emergency, are we ? We planned to be 4th and we are 3rd after half a season. We can't fight for scudetto and there is no "MUST DO" now. We don't lose much with Tiago playing bad, do we ?
We've shown patience with Nedved in his first half season, why are we so impatient now ?
Our current team doesn't suit Tiago. But we payed a lot for him and he is a quality player. We'll buy new players, we may have new coach. Who can guarantee that he won't be the good old Tiago ?


Nothing personal with #1 and # 2 against Andy and nothing personal against those who attack Tiago with #3.
Just my 2 cents

Good analysis, my only problem with it.. Is Tiago worth the wait? To me, the good old Tiago, was never that good anyway.

(not to mention the godot factor)

 

[pavelnedved]

i think the impatience of #3 has to do with tiago's style of football that doesn't resemble the italian way. tiago's style isn't physical and you can't really change that. nedved was a complete other situation as, at lazio, he had proven that he can easily play in italy and we just had to wait for him to settle in and deliver.

 

[Dominic]

JS:"So...will you leave?"
TM:"Yes,I can't stay here anymore!I think I will leave..."
JS:"But When?"
TM"I think right now."

Conversation between a Juve supporter and Tiago after training...

source http://www.calciomercatoweb.it/dettaglioNewsCategoria.asp?hdnIdCategoria=2&hdnId=14228

Apparently he decided not to train with his teammates the last two days either.

http://www.lastampa.it/sport/cmsSezioni/quijuve/200801articoli/12992girata.asp

 

[Snoop]

Good analysis, my only problem with it.. Is Tiago worth the wait? To me, the good old Tiago, was never that good anyway.

(not to mention the godot factor)

I agree with you here, this is exactly why I want him out too, If he was a world class midfielder I would give him 2 seasons to adapt, but he isn't one, it doesn't worth to take the risk.

 

[Alen]

Good analysis, my only problem with it.. Is Tiago worth the wait? To me, the good old Tiago, was never that good anyway.

He wasn't, it's true. Never a world class.
But he was still a player good enough for Lyon and Portugal.
Call me a pessimist but neither this Juve, neither next year's Juve are/will be better than Lyon and Portugal of the past years.

If he wants to leave, whatever we say here is useless though.

 

[Dominic]

He wasn't, it's true. Never a world class.
But he was still a player good enough for Lyon and Portugal.
Call me a pessimist but neither this Juve, neither next year's Juve are/will be better than Lyon and Portugal of the past years.

Well certainly if were to settle for players of his caliber.

If he wants to leave, whatever we say here is useless though.

Everything we say on here is useless .

 

[Juventino★★★]

i never saw tiago playing good like how the everybody saying and from what i saw hes just average player who cant change the game but base his work with strong midfielders or strong team who can give him the ball so he can perform hes not hard working midfielder and not so creative like pirlo for example he just cant hold the ball for more than 2 seconds and i think ranieri gave him enough chance to prove himself but hes just not good enough for juve in my opinion

 

[.zero]

i'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread cuz i've vented enough...





































for now

 

[Sidindi]

Here's my take on Tiago:
why did we get him in the first place? Mourinho, who -- besides the Shevchenko, and depending on who you talk to, Ballack fiascos -- is a fantastic judge of talent sold him for a lot less money than he was bought. Scolari, another great judge of talent constantly looks for an alternative.
I thought he was a great player in Lyon, but he was a player made great by others. Look at the talent he was surrounded with. All that talent needed to be given the ball in order to function. The chemistry of the team demanded a CM who would play stably and supply everyone with more talent with passes. This is the role, that he did objectively fulfill quite well, but that is not the role he can perform in Juve.
True, we have some greatly talented players, but our style of play (and let's not get into the Ranieri tactics discussion), and style of play of football in Italy in general does not call for a player like him. Italian football is often based on defense. Our defense on top of that is not very strong, and as a whole, the team is rebuilding. This is not a place for a player like Tiago.

Everyone who was EVER successful at Juve (Trezeguet excluding, which just proves that exceptions do exist but they are just that: exceptions -- regardless, he's a finisher so its a moot point), and is considered a legend by some standard or another was a fighter. OK, so you can make a case for early Del Piero not actually knowing what it means to run hard and defend, but he had to learn or else he wound up on the bench (eventually).
My point being, even Zizou had to fight for the ball. Look at the list of some of the more successful players in recent history: Viali, Ferrara, Ravanelli, Zidane, Nedved, Baggio, Cannavaro, Zabrotta, Conte, Thuram, Vieira, Camoranesi, more or less Inzaghi because he scored scrappy goals he had to fight for, Deshamps etc. All of these great careers, played great football for Juve and were fighters and helped us be successful as a team. Tiago cannot do this. He might one day be a fantastic player for someone else, like Henry was for Arsenal after Juve (where he did not fit -- not because he was bad), but the truth of the matter is, he cannot be used in the present state of affairs, and should have never been bought.

Now the question is, with a decent number of clubs looking for a player like Tiago (notice, few or none are from Italy -- due to incompatability), what is the best way for us to trade him to get a decent value for him?

AND JUST TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR: I am not giving up on him, but I think his services are not useful for us for a number of years, so why not use his value now...rather than when it is rock bottom regardless of form (which is what happened with Boumsong when we held on to him for too long).

 

[ReBeL]

Not the best source, but this was published before afew minutes...

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Tiago fits the bill for Spurs after Juve accept £9m bid


Tottenham last night agreed a fee for Juventus midfielder Tiago, believed to be around £9million, at the end of a frustrating week which had seen them priced out of a move for Arsenal's Lassana Diarra.

The club's strict wage limit, with the highest earners in the £50,000 to £60,000-aweek bracket, and their unwillingness to increase the bill had seen Diarra — who joined Portsmouth on £60,000-a-week — and Brazil striker Fred, of Lyon, slip through their fingers.

Ex-Chelsea man Tiago will not come cheap but Spurs are at least able to discuss terms with the Portugal star.

Tottenham's lack of midfield steel was enough to have manager Juande Ramos reminiscing about Sunderland boss Roy Keane, his managerial opponent today.

Ramos said: 'Players like Roy are essential in any team. It is just very difficult to find these players, who have such a character and a special personality. I loved him as a player.'

West Ham manager Alan Curbishley believes his team can shake off their midweek FA Cup defeat when they return to Manchester City today and then aim for the top six.

'We are looking upwards, not downwards, at the clubs we can get in front of,' said Curbishley.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...in_article_id=509180&in_page_id=1779&ito=1490

 

[Salvatore]

Its not red top so its good enough, I'd imagine that they are too far into it though.

 

[Morra10]

Instead of sticking it out and trying to earn your playing time tiago is going to bitch out and move on? If that's true I just lost a lot of respect for the guy......

 

[Ahmed]

cya, wouldn't wanna be ya

 

[Salvatore]

Doesn't have any quotes of them wanting him, to be fair.