The verdict - Calciopoli charges announced (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter jussiut
- Start date
problem is that everyone wants someone to be made an example of.They think that would prevent the ppl from even thinking of that in the years and later.Italy's two biggest clubs r the best example for them to use.
letting them go, will not be an option for them.Also they dont want UEFA(who really pissed me off when they intervened) will be on their backs if they let the clubs just walk scot free
letting them go, will not be an option for them.Also they dont want UEFA(who really pissed me off when they intervened) will be on their backs if they let the clubs just walk scot free
swag said:
C'mon. I'm sure Berlusconi is genuinely thinking in the interests of the fans and would fully support leniency on teams even if AC Milan wasn't implicated. 
FIGC boss snubs Berlusconi's call for leniency
ROME, July 13 (Reuters) - The head of the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) has snubbed calls by the country's former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi for leniency towards clubs involved in the Serie A match-fixing trial.
'I'm not interested in what he says. I've got my own job to do,' said Guido Rossi on Thursday, responding to claims by Berlusconi earlier in the day that sanctions against clubs would hit innocent fans the hardest.
Berlusconi is the owner and president of AC Milan, one of four clubs from Italy's top division - along with Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio - accused of trying to influence the appointment of match officials for games during the 2004-05 season.
Twenty-five individuals, including club and federation officials, referees and linesmen, are also awaiting the verdicts of the trial, which are expected on Friday or Saturday.
'We will not accept punishments against the fans, the teams, when the people who should be punished are the individuals that made the mistakes,' said Berlusconi.
'I'm not talking only on behalf of Milan, but also on behalf of the fans of Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio who have written to me.'
If found guilty, Juventus could be relegated to Italy's third division or lower and be stripped of the Serie A titles they won in 2005 and 2006.
The other three clubs risk relegation to Italy's second-tier Serie B. Individuals face bans from the sport.
In the wake of Italy's World Cup victory several Italian politicians, including the country's Justice Minister Clemente Mastella, have called for a general amnesty for all those facing charges.
The scandal broke in early May with the publication of intercepted telephone conversations between former Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi and senior FIGC officialsg discussing refereeing appointments during the 2004-05 season.
ROME, July 13 (Reuters) - The head of the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) has snubbed calls by the country's former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi for leniency towards clubs involved in the Serie A match-fixing trial.
'I'm not interested in what he says. I've got my own job to do,' said Guido Rossi on Thursday, responding to claims by Berlusconi earlier in the day that sanctions against clubs would hit innocent fans the hardest.
Berlusconi is the owner and president of AC Milan, one of four clubs from Italy's top division - along with Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio - accused of trying to influence the appointment of match officials for games during the 2004-05 season.
Twenty-five individuals, including club and federation officials, referees and linesmen, are also awaiting the verdicts of the trial, which are expected on Friday or Saturday.
'We will not accept punishments against the fans, the teams, when the people who should be punished are the individuals that made the mistakes,' said Berlusconi.
'I'm not talking only on behalf of Milan, but also on behalf of the fans of Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio who have written to me.'
If found guilty, Juventus could be relegated to Italy's third division or lower and be stripped of the Serie A titles they won in 2005 and 2006.
The other three clubs risk relegation to Italy's second-tier Serie B. Individuals face bans from the sport.
In the wake of Italy's World Cup victory several Italian politicians, including the country's Justice Minister Clemente Mastella, have called for a general amnesty for all those facing charges.
The scandal broke in early May with the publication of intercepted telephone conversations between former Juventus general manager Luciano Moggi and senior FIGC officialsg discussing refereeing appointments during the 2004-05 season.
Romanisto,
While you are quick to point out Juve's misgivings regarding the refereeing scandals - I agree with you that the proofs are too strong to ignore these accusation on most part - you completely ignore the fact that Italian government has a history of changing legislations in order to allow two Roman clubs such that they can register with the league despite financial irregularities.
Of course, others wrong-doings doesnt erase ours but one cannot but feel the double standards in the attitude taken by the public regarding two cases.
Secondly, Italia is just about to become the only country the advanced world that would would not send the management team of corporation found guilty of fraud into jail. I do not know exact judicial process taking regarding the trial, but fraud is a very serious crimial offence and deserve jail sentence.
And you know that shareholder taking responsibility stuff for failing to exert due dilligence is loads of bullshit that only exists in the theory based corporate governance textbooks. The matter of fact is that most shareholders does not have the necessary accessible information to make informed judgement relating management team's performance (what they are doing), and if they did, under the most legislation, it would be prohibited (technically) by insider trading laws.
Why would we have all these complex and yet incomplete incentive schemes in real world? Its because we don't know what management team is upto.
So to certain extent all owners of the firms have to rely the honesty of those in charge of organizations (Moggi & Co.) and a set of incomplete incentive schemes.
So what is the moral of story?
One should not be punished for what an outcome that is beyond one's reponsibility & ability. There is no way shareholders & fans could have fully known those cheating bastards were upto and hence they should not be held responsible for their wrong doings. This is the very basic principle of designing an optimal incentive scheme - the fact which those judicial procedure driven self indulgient idots do not know! In Juve and Lazio case, this argument is strongest because as I, believe, the division between the management & ownership is strongest.
Also suppose that as rumored Moggi & Co will only be banned from football for five years & Juve et all gets demoted - What message would this send to potential management teams?
They will see that these scums have got away with shit loads of money, and the team that they represented bore the majority of penalty. I am sure such sentences will deter the next generation of Moggi's from trying to cheat their way into success. And I would not bother to mention the impossibility of shareholder due dilligence again.
So what I have learned from all this? It re-inforced my belief that laws are parasites in general, and great waste of potential productive talents who lost the eye for fundamentals by being too fixated on procedures and legislations.
Secondly, my suspicion is that the light penalty for individual cases, if the rumor is true, only re-inforces my belief that there is something fishy going on.
Ok, I am resigned to the fact of watching Juve Serie B, but certainly not from asking a fair penalty for all parties involved.
While you are quick to point out Juve's misgivings regarding the refereeing scandals - I agree with you that the proofs are too strong to ignore these accusation on most part - you completely ignore the fact that Italian government has a history of changing legislations in order to allow two Roman clubs such that they can register with the league despite financial irregularities.
Of course, others wrong-doings doesnt erase ours but one cannot but feel the double standards in the attitude taken by the public regarding two cases.
Secondly, Italia is just about to become the only country the advanced world that would would not send the management team of corporation found guilty of fraud into jail. I do not know exact judicial process taking regarding the trial, but fraud is a very serious crimial offence and deserve jail sentence.
And you know that shareholder taking responsibility stuff for failing to exert due dilligence is loads of bullshit that only exists in the theory based corporate governance textbooks. The matter of fact is that most shareholders does not have the necessary accessible information to make informed judgement relating management team's performance (what they are doing), and if they did, under the most legislation, it would be prohibited (technically) by insider trading laws.
Why would we have all these complex and yet incomplete incentive schemes in real world? Its because we don't know what management team is upto.
So to certain extent all owners of the firms have to rely the honesty of those in charge of organizations (Moggi & Co.) and a set of incomplete incentive schemes.
So what is the moral of story?
One should not be punished for what an outcome that is beyond one's reponsibility & ability. There is no way shareholders & fans could have fully known those cheating bastards were upto and hence they should not be held responsible for their wrong doings. This is the very basic principle of designing an optimal incentive scheme - the fact which those judicial procedure driven self indulgient idots do not know! In Juve and Lazio case, this argument is strongest because as I, believe, the division between the management & ownership is strongest.
Also suppose that as rumored Moggi & Co will only be banned from football for five years & Juve et all gets demoted - What message would this send to potential management teams?
They will see that these scums have got away with shit loads of money, and the team that they represented bore the majority of penalty. I am sure such sentences will deter the next generation of Moggi's from trying to cheat their way into success. And I would not bother to mention the impossibility of shareholder due dilligence again.
So what I have learned from all this? It re-inforced my belief that laws are parasites in general, and great waste of potential productive talents who lost the eye for fundamentals by being too fixated on procedures and legislations.
Secondly, my suspicion is that the light penalty for individual cases, if the rumor is true, only re-inforces my belief that there is something fishy going on.
Ok, I am resigned to the fact of watching Juve Serie B, but certainly not from asking a fair penalty for all parties involved.
In my opinion there are a few things since the world cup that has made me hope for a lesser punishment for Juventus.
1. Italia wins the world cup with 8 players from Juventus in the finals and the best player in the tournament for italy being a Juve player. With a third of the players in the finals being Juve, FIGC should seriously think whether the limited conversation they have is valid enough to severely punish a team that has shown that their players are among the very best in the world and very much capable of winning serie A without refereeing help.
2. Lippi steps down and hints of the poor treatment Italian football federation has given him and his team prior to the WC win. I hope it presents FIGC a bit of a wake up call and stop to think for a momment what they are actually doing and its long term consequences. A hero steps down and FIGC need to understand his reasons if they want to show any gratittude towards him.
3. Pessotto's critical condition, he may not be anywhere near Italy's best player but he never from what i remember became a villian for Italy. I could only fear how he could react in bed when news hits that Juve are relegated. i hope it may have some emotional effect towards the hearing(although very unlikely).
Although I still believe Juve will suffer some sort of punishment, I really do hope that its not as severe its charged with. Losing 2 scudettos and degraded to serie C is much too harsh for a partially conducted investigation.
1. Italia wins the world cup with 8 players from Juventus in the finals and the best player in the tournament for italy being a Juve player. With a third of the players in the finals being Juve, FIGC should seriously think whether the limited conversation they have is valid enough to severely punish a team that has shown that their players are among the very best in the world and very much capable of winning serie A without refereeing help.
2. Lippi steps down and hints of the poor treatment Italian football federation has given him and his team prior to the WC win. I hope it presents FIGC a bit of a wake up call and stop to think for a momment what they are actually doing and its long term consequences. A hero steps down and FIGC need to understand his reasons if they want to show any gratittude towards him.
3. Pessotto's critical condition, he may not be anywhere near Italy's best player but he never from what i remember became a villian for Italy. I could only fear how he could react in bed when news hits that Juve are relegated. i hope it may have some emotional effect towards the hearing(although very unlikely).
Although I still believe Juve will suffer some sort of punishment, I really do hope that its not as severe its charged with. Losing 2 scudettos and degraded to serie C is much too harsh for a partially conducted investigation.
vonom
I totally agree!
Rossi should seriously look himself in the mirror. FIGC have failed to defend its players and coach from unfounded accusations when its job is to provide an environment whereby the team could make its preparation for WC.
Ironcially, their complete incompetence only drove players to achieve greater things. And to punish players who have already achieved far more for the country than any of those involved in the trial will ever do in their life and the one after - my word power matters & it stinks.
I totally agree!
Rossi should seriously look himself in the mirror. FIGC have failed to defend its players and coach from unfounded accusations when its job is to provide an environment whereby the team could make its preparation for WC.
Ironcially, their complete incompetence only drove players to achieve greater things. And to punish players who have already achieved far more for the country than any of those involved in the trial will ever do in their life and the one after - my word power matters & it stinks.
It's pretty much what i can hope for...
like you say, i also don't believe this is a fair trial, not that Juventus don't deserve punishment, but the whole scandal is unfairly limited to Juve..and the club has to suffer all the consequences.
I believe if a full investigation was conducted, more and more teams and their management will pop-up..
This investigation is focused on Juventus' wrong doings instead of focusing on the wrong doings of serie A..
I do have a feeling its still motivated by an anti Juve resentment, as the investigation team is very satisfied with the limited of evidence looked into.
like you say, i also don't believe this is a fair trial, not that Juventus don't deserve punishment, but the whole scandal is unfairly limited to Juve..and the club has to suffer all the consequences.
I believe if a full investigation was conducted, more and more teams and their management will pop-up..
This investigation is focused on Juventus' wrong doings instead of focusing on the wrong doings of serie A..
I do have a feeling its still motivated by an anti Juve resentment, as the investigation team is very satisfied with the limited of evidence looked into.