A lot of Greeks living in the city have actually gone back to the countryside to their grandparents/land inherited from the grandparents and try to live off the land somehow.
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- Thread starter Sheik Yerbouti
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At what point do you protect people from their own foolish and overly risky decisions, and at what point does doing so become patronizing and treating a population as if they were children?
There are shades of grey here, definitely. But it's not exactly appropriate to suggest that the people of Greece are 100% free of responsibility for what happened either.
Of course we bail out banks when they make foolish and overly risky decisions, so perhaps each citizen of the world should register as a bank -- much like each corporation in America also qualifies as a citizen.
There are shades of grey here, definitely. But it's not exactly appropriate to suggest that the people of Greece are 100% free of responsibility for what happened either.
Of course we bail out banks when they make foolish and overly risky decisions, so perhaps each citizen of the world should register as a bank -- much like each corporation in America also qualifies as a citizen.
bad choices subject populations to poverty, the problem of greece is squarely on greece, its leaders, and political structure
except my dear friend, this is the country of plato we are talking about not some uneducated libertine, also it's not like this is the first time they have been in this position, i am obviously empathetic to the people suffering because of this there, but it's silly to suggest the fault is in the 'stars' here.
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is that fancy way of saying more handouts?
except my dear friend, this is the country of plato we are talking about not some uneducated libertine, also it's not like this is the first time they have been in this position, i am obviously empathetic to the people suffering because of this there, but it's silly to suggest the fault is in the 'stars' here.
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is that fancy way of saying more handouts?
The people who cause most of the grief in this world are rarely held accountable. Especially held accountable in any justifiable and equitable way. That's life, basically. The basic tenet is true: life isn't fair.
When those times happen, as has always happened throughout history, a population of people who largely may not be the cause have to come to the rescue and be part of the solution for the problems that have befallen them. Even more unfair, some of the people who have to pay the burden are the very people who were saying, "Don't do this... this will end badly" when nobody listened. "I told you so" has even less meaning for them.
Which isn't to say that the IMF/EU is doing enough to focus on salvaging the society and not just the debt to creditors -- as was done for post-Weimar, post-Hilter Germany. But the fact they even lent any money at all to such an economically unsustainable nation to begin with borders on charity. Like lending money to your derelict cousin who is about to be evicted from his apartment, even if you know he's mostly going to spend it on alcohol and women.
When those times happen, as has always happened throughout history, a population of people who largely may not be the cause have to come to the rescue and be part of the solution for the problems that have befallen them. Even more unfair, some of the people who have to pay the burden are the very people who were saying, "Don't do this... this will end badly" when nobody listened. "I told you so" has even less meaning for them.
Which isn't to say that the IMF/EU is doing enough to focus on salvaging the society and not just the debt to creditors -- as was done for post-Weimar, post-Hilter Germany. But the fact they even lent any money at all to such an economically unsustainable nation to begin with borders on charity. Like lending money to your derelict cousin who is about to be evicted from his apartment, even if you know he's mostly going to spend it on alcohol and women.
The Greek government was only elected in January and they've done their best to save the Greek economy since then. They aren't to blame for this, they're just trying to stop the subjugation of their population.
There's a significant difference between fiscal support and handing out money. A better repayment system with scope for economic growth and sociological, reform is fiscal support.
(Was it a hand out when Germany had its war debts written off in 1951?)
There's a significant difference between fiscal support and handing out money. A better repayment system with scope for economic growth and sociological, reform is fiscal support.
(Was it a hand out when Germany had its war debts written off in 1951?)
I think we agree on principal, but, they don't need to be lent more money, they need space to recover and grow and repay on terms that can be achieved.
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Germany had also just murdered millions of people and dragged to world into a global conflict when that happened. What's to say that a reformed Greece can't develop a strong minimalist economy?
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Germany had also just murdered millions of people and dragged to world into a global conflict when that happened. What's to say that a reformed Greece can't develop a strong minimalist economy?
