The Problems With Ethical Relativism (12 Viewers)

[Martin]

I am sorry but if the logic underlying a certain belief is flawed then why should I maintain this belief? You state that ethical relativism is part of reality, but I have indicated that this is anything but the case.

Why is ethical relativism true? This is my question. Just because you want it to be true does not make it so.

It's true, trivially.

1. Every person has his own morality? Ie. every person has their own sense of what is right and wrong. Do you agree?

There you have it, proof. Since there is no proof that everyone's morality is the same, there is no basis to say morality is absolute, only relative.

 

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[rounder]

how is the "personal creator" different from anything that you can make up as you go along?

I am taking a metaphysical perspective here. If objective moral values do exist, then a personal creator who set these moral values must necessarily exist as well.

Understand that I am not arguing for a specific type of creator here, muslim God, Christian God etc.. But rather a theistic God in the sense that this God cares for humanity.

 

[Martin]

Martin, this also defeats your entire purpose of criticizing religion.

You criticize religion because it is flawed, but if what you are saying is correct, then that is no reason to assume that religion is wrong.

I criticize it for a different reason. I think suspect which one. Ready?

Because it's made up.

 

[*aca*]

Understand that I am not arguing for a specific type of creator here, muslim God, Christian God etc.. But rather a theistic God in the sense that this God cares for humanity.

how does this creator cares for humanity?

 

[rounder]

It's true, trivially.

1. Every person has his own morality? Ie. every person has their own sense of what is right and wrong. Do you agree?

There you have it, proof. Since there is no proof that everyone's morality is the same, there is no basis to say morality is absolute, only relative.

That proves nothing. This is not what is in question here. Of course all people have different moral standards. I am not arguing that everyone has the same set of moral standards, I thought I was clear about that.

I am merely arguing that a moral objective law does exist meaning that some actions are immoral or moral regardless of culture, time, and individual.

The Moral Law is absolute, there is an absolute standard of morality. If there wasn't, moral debates would not even exist, wouldn't you agree?

 

[*aca*]

This actually made me laugh out laud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

 

[*aca*]

I am merely arguing that a moral objective law does exist meaning that some actions are immoral or moral regardless of culture, time, and individual.

name one.

 

[rounder]

I criticize it for a different reason. I think suspect which one. Ready?

Because it's made up.

You said ethical relativism despite its many flaws which you do agree with, remains to be true.

I simply state that religion, despite its many flaws which you do agree with remains to be true.

Double standards here? Yes?

 

[rounder]

name one.

Sure, toruturing a new born baby for pleasure.

 

[Martin]

That proves nothing. This is not what is in question here. Of course all people have different moral standards. I am not arguing that everyone has the same set of moral standards, I thought I was clear about that.

I am merely arguing that a moral objective law does exist meaning that some actions are immoral or moral regardless of culture, time, and individual.

So what you want me to prove is that objective morality doesn't exist? As with god, I leave it up to you to prove first that it does exist.

The Moral Law is absolute, there is an absolute standard of morality. If there wasn't, moral debates would not even exist, wouldn't you agree?

No, quite the contrary. Do we argue about whether the sun is yellow? No, because that is a fact, it is objectively true. There is no point arguing because everyone's opinion is the same.

 

[Raz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Today i had an exam with about this stuff

Anyway, i thought it was funny because JR, actually wishes objective morality to be true without no evidence, just like any other god, wishful thinking. Oh man, the world cant be this cruel, even if it is now, surely it doesn't supposed to be like that. And this is where the god comes in, to satisfy all of your delusions.

 

[rounder]

how does this creator cares for humanity?

By providing an objective moral law, if this creator did not care about humanity, why would He set an objective moral standard?

 

[*aca*]

Sure, toruturing a new born infant for pleasure.

so if god order this to happen, does it become moral?

 

[Raz]

By providing an objective moral law, if this creator did not care about humanity, why would He set an objective moral standard?

Non of those thing you mentioned have any evidence...

 

[Martin]

You said ethical relativism despite its many flaws which you do agree with, remains to be true.

I simply state that religion, despite its many flaws which you do agree with remains to be true.

Double standards here? Yes?

Not really. You see, religion is made up. And because it is made up and there is no one to make sure that religious rules that religious people have to obey are benign, inevitably many are harmful. I criticize both aspects, the fact that it's made up and the fact that the rules are harmful. One does not exclude the other.

 

[*aca*]

By providing an objective moral law, if this creator did not care about humanity, why would He set an objective moral standard?

what is the evidence of objective morality existing and what is the evidence that particular god that you have in mind is the one that provided it?

where is this set of moral truths?

 

[rounder]

Today i had an exam with about this stuff

Anyway, i thought it was funny because JR, actually wishes objective morality to be true without no evidence, just like any other god, wishful thinking. Oh man, the world cant be this cruel, even if it is now, surely it doesn't supposed to be like that. And this is where the god comes in, to satisfy all of your delusions.

Delusions?

Reasons for belief in God.

1--The Cosmological argument - Where the universe comes from
2--The Teleological argument - The fact that the universe is intelligently designed
3--The Moral argument - The fact that actions have real moral value has not been dealt with. If objective moral values exist, it must be rooted in a God.
4-The evidence of the resurrection has not been refuted
5-The immediate experience of God

These are Craig's arguments for the existence of God. Let's now see what the atheistic perspective has to offer.

Reasons for disbelief in God.
1- God is cruel.

It seems to me that it is the atheistic perspective that happears more to wishful thinking here.

If God is all loving and all powerful, why is there evil in the world?

These two ideas are not in direct contradiction. There is no logical contradiction in them. Usually the atheist is making a probabilistic argument and not an explicit argument. But if we add one statement - God has sufficient reasons to allow the evil in the world that we see now - we can see the argument doesn't hold logically. Emotionally, I understand the problem and we don't like to see suffering, but there is no way that we can say ourselves what is or isn't in God's mind that makes such suffering sufficient.

 

[*aca*]

i give up

 

[Raz]

Delusions?

Reasons for belief in God.

1--The Cosmological argument - Where the universe comes from
2--The Teleological argument - The fact that the universe is intelligently designed
3--The Moral argument - The fact that actions have real moral value has not been dealt with. If objective moral values exist, it must be rooted in a God.
4-The evidence of the resurrection has not been refuted
5-The immediate experience of God

1. its an objective fact?
2. This one is too considered a fact, not opinion right?
3. It is so objective that it seems that no one here believes in it, and you still are using it as an evidence.
4. And not accepted too.
5. Is it one more of your objective things?

 

[Raz]

i give up

Its just your first day with him.

He is at it for quite some time now.