The NBA Thread (102 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

For all the players who started slow and turned out to be Harden or Oladipo or etc, there’s hundreds more who turned into shit or are out of the NBA. I think it’s fair what Osman is saying in that none of the Lakers young core has shown the star potential you see in most stars when they’re rookies. Hence why the Lakers would need to give up all of them to get AD.

Please. You're even worse than Osman about everything Lakers related. Both Ingram and Ball have shown clear star potential.

Not sure you understand what the word "potential" means. What they need to show is progress in fulfilling that potential. And while they have shown some progress, they haven't show enough yet to make people think they will fulfil their potential to be stars... But again, they are both just turned 21 this past Autumn.

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What star quality did you see in Oladipo as a rookie?

No one saw any.

People thought that was the worst draft in a decade.

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Funny as 2012 draft looks decent in hindsight, from Oladipo's super slow development into a star, to late picks Rudy Gobert turning into a star and Giannis turning into a MVP level player.

 

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[Bianconero81]

I get shitting on Ball and Ingram but not when your team has the epitome of 2 soft and gutless players in Wiggins and KAT, who I don't think deserves to be an All Star.

 

[Osman]

For all the players who started slow and turned out to be Harden or Oladipo or etc, there’s hundreds more who turned into shit or are out of the NBA. I think it’s fair what Osman is saying in that none of the Lakers young core has shown the star potential you see in most stars when they’re rookies. Hence why the Lakers would need to give up all of them to get AD.

I agree with giving some of them up, but not all, thats not smart team building IMO. I would give up Kuzma (same positional need more or less) and Ingram, and keep Ball.

 

[KB824]

You don't have to average 20 ppg to be a star. You have to be excellent to elite in several facets of the game to be a someone with star potential. Aside from scoring, practically everything else that Lonzo does is near elite

Please. You're even worse than Osman about everything Lakers related. Both Ingram and Ball have shown clear star potential.

Not sure you understand what the word "potential" means. What they need to show is progress in fulfilling that potential. And while they have shown some progress, they haven't show enough yet to make people think they will fulfil their potential to be stars... But again, they are both just turned 21 this past Autumn.

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No one saw any.

People thought that was the worst draft in a decade.

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Funny as 2012 draft looks decent in hindsight, from Oladipo's super slow development into a star, to late picks Rudy Gobert turning into a star and Giannis turning into a MVP level player.

And look how long it took those three players to be at the status they are now. Even Giannis took 3 full seasons before he made that all-star level step. That's the point. Some players take time

 

[Osman]

I get shitting on Ball and Ingram but not when your team has the epitome of 2 soft and gutless players in Wiggins and KAT, who I don't think deserves to be an All Star.

Who is talking about Wolves, what are you 12? Cant differentiate between different topics? And one thing to talk about Wiggins, but KAT is an actual franchise level offensive talent, if KAT doesnt deserve to be an allstar, then scrap the allstar game for bigs in general and just make it all guards and wings. He is having an undeniable fantastic season.

 

[IliveForJuve]

You know Tuz is going downhill when this faggy sport is discussed more than football.

 

[Bianconero81]

Who is talking about Wolves, what are you 12? Cant differentiate between different topics? And one thing to talk about Wiggins, but KAT is an actual franchise level offensive talent, if KAT doesnt deserve to be an allstar, then scrap the allstar game for bigs in general and just make it all guards and wings. He is having an undeniable fantastic season.

Btw, I was just baiting you with that Wolves comment No need to get all passive aggressive and antsy.

I'm not even a Lakers fan, but the potential is there for both Ingram and Ball. You keep mentioning Simmons, who is a bonafide All Star, but he still needs to develop and improve his game. FYI, I don't even like Ball, but he's consistently improving.

KAT doesn't deserve to be an All Star this year, and he has a lot to prove before he can be considered a franchise level offensive talent. I wouldn't take him if I were starting a team today.

 

[Post Ironic]

I agree with giving some of them up, but not all, thats not smart team building IMO. I would give up Kuzma (same positional need more or less) and Ingram, and keep Ball.

The problem for us in any trade for a star is draft picks. Teams want high draft picks, and all of ours will be pretty mediocre until Lebron leaves, even more so if he gets paired with Davis.

Boston has similar assets plus endless picks to offer, that are much higher than our own. The Knicks may have a #1 overall this year plus half-decent young players. The Clippers now may have a top 3 pick in 2021 to offer plus a couple other picks (even if their assets are really mediocre).

The picks are key for New Orleans in this trade and they have made that clear.

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You don't have to average 20 ppg to be a star. You have to be excellent to elite in several facets of the game to be a someone with star potential. Aside from scoring, practically everything else that Lonzo does is near elite


And look how long it took those three players to be at the status they are now. Even Giannis took 3 full seasons before he made that all-star level step. That's the point. Some players take time

You and I are in complete agreement here. Most players take time. Just from Lonzo's draft year... people talk about Tatum, but if anything he's regressed a bit this year, after his fantastic rookie year. Jaylen Brown looks like garbage after a very good season last year. Fox on the other hand had a shit rookie year, far worse than Ball's but given the keys to the offence this year and free rein, he's taken a huge leap this year. All players develop differently.

And I agree with you about not having to avg 20 to be a star. Ball at 15ppg-8rbg-10apg is a bonafide star, even more so with his defence. And those numbers are easily achievable for him. I could even see his scoring going higher, as I think he has a little more upside there than most do.

 

[Osman]

he has a lot to prove before he can be considered a franchise level offensive talent. I wouldn't take him if I were starting a team today.

This was just a year ago, and voted by all NBA GMs, thats defenite mic drop in comparison to you, one fans, opinion of his talent. What they saw in him to legit consider him that high is still there. One bad playoff series does not define everything he can do already in his young career (the undeniable MVP of the league right now BARELY had any good or consistent playoff performances in his career so far, just to give you hindsight). Even if yes it was really ugly for Towns.


Towns has to work on his game for sure, but his talent is undeniable, his OFFENSIVE talent is historical level effiency. He is a big and his NBA career so far is only behind the scoring effiency of just the top 2 or 3 players. Thats is the difinition of franchise talent in offensive game. Its just that he happens to be in a position, center, where the defensive as important to anchor it all. But you know what? He HAS improved on that this season, he has been blocking, rebounding, help defense/altering way more shots in high level since december. Shut down AD when they last faced. He is improving on that front, but yes he has to improve further, both mentally most importantly to assert himself and understand his role in the team. But his core talent is undeniable, he is a freakish scoring mofo and defenite franchise talent.

 

[Bianconero81]

It's an oxymoron, but I think Lebron destroys any team he attempts to rebuild once he leaves. Yes, that sounded confusing and paradoxical.

The Cavs are going to be irrelevant for many years to come (yes, I get that he finally won them a coveted title, but The Lakers aren't the Cavs and won't have that sort of patience moving forward).

The Heat are still struggling and might not even make the playoffs this year. Even if they do, they're nowhere near good enough to compete, and they've been in a rebuilding mode since Lebron left.

I don't know if it's worth sacrificing everything to appease Lebron because, at best, he's going to play for another 4-5 seasons. He might win one ring, if that.

He is indeed a toxic primadonna bitch, so the Lakers need to make a stand. They can't just cave in and give in to his demands.

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This was just a year ago, and voted by all NBA GMs, thats defenite mic drop in comparison to you, one fans, opinion of his talent. What they saw in him to legit consider him that high is still there.


Towns has to work on his game for sure, but his talent is undeniable, his OFFENSIVE talent is historical level effiency. He is a big and his NBA career so far is only behind the scoring effiency of just the top 2 or 3 players. Thats is the difinition of franchise talent in offensive game. Its just that he happens to be in a position, center, where the defensive as important to anchor it all. But you know what? He HAS improved on that this season, he has been blocking, rebounding, help defense/altering way more shots in high level since december. Shut down AD when they last faced. He is improving on that front, but yes he has to improve further, both mentally most importantly to assert himself and understand his role in the team. But his core talent is undeniable, he is a freakish scoring mofo and defenite franchise talent.

I really enjoyed watching him when he first came into the league. It's not that he has regressed (it would be insane to suggest that), but the trajectory in his improvement hasn't been as rapid as I thought it would be I guess. In any case, at least you have a young player, still 23, who has the potential to improve and be amazing for you for the next 10 years. I look at the Magic and I weep. Aaron Gordon hasn't really come in leaps and bounds, Vucevic is 28, Isaac and Bamba are still young and question marks.

 

[ALC]

What star quality did you see in Oladipo as a rookie?

I didn’t, but I’m saying that for every Oladipo there’s 100 players who turn into shit.

 

[Osman]

You are a Magic fan? Didnt know, yeah its kinda sucks for Magic that whenever you trade someone talented, they hit it big elsewhere, happend to often.


thats why I say keep hold of Isaac, that kid has legit DOY the year talent, aslong as he polishes his super raw game. His offense seems horrid, but his defensive instincts are on point. He need lots of minutes and proper coaching.

 

[KB824]

[QUOTE="Bianconero81, post: 5896759, member: 11247"]It's an oxymoron, but I think Lebron destroys any team he attempts to rebuild once he leaves. Yes, that sounded confusing and paradoxical.

The Cavs are going to be irrelevant for many years to come (yes, I get that he finally won them a coveted title, but The Lakers aren't the Cavs and won't have that sort of patience moving forward).

The Heat are still struggling and might not even make the playoffs this year. Even if they do, they're nowhere near good enough to compete, and they've been in a rebuilding mode since Lebron left.

I don't know if it's worth sacrificing everything to appease Lebron because, at best, he's going to play for another 4-5 seasons. He might win one ring, if that.

He is indeed a toxic primadonna bitch, so the Lakers need to make a stand. They can't just cave in and give in to his demands.

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I really enjoyed watching him when he first came into the league. It's not that he has regressed (it would be insane to suggest that), but the trajectory in his improvement hasn't been as rapid as I thought it would be I guess. In any case, at least you have a young player, still 23, who has the potential to improve and be amazing for you for the next 10 years. I look at the Magic and I weep. Aaron Gordon hasn't really come in leaps and bounds, Vucevic is 28, Isaac and Bamba are still young and question marks.[/QUOTE]

And this is why I will be furious if they trade every young player and multiple 1st round picks for Davis.

Winning 1 Championship and being bad-mediocre for the next decade might be OK for the people of Cleveland. But not for Laker fans. We like sustainable success. Not throwing everything away for 1 title. Hell, the Lakers have NEVER done that. Ever.

 

[Osman]

You know Tuz is going downhill when this faggy sport is discussed more than football.

Basketball is the least faggy sport you can think of, its fairly freakish and super athletic sport. Your juvenile shit talking needs some urgent work.

 

[zizinho]

Dude, Bullock is 27. He's not an older player to fit a timeline. If you have a chance to replace Svi with Reggie you do it every day. Dude is shooting 38.8% from 3 this year, and shot 45% last year.

Ofcourse he is. Lebron has a window of what, 3-4 years? Bullock is a player in his prime, an expiring, which we gave up an asset for. His cap hold is almost 5M, we cant even get one of the 33M max players while keeping him, Zubac and the 2019 1st round pick on their cap holds, let alone KD. So chances are he walks. This makes little sense to me, but in hindsight, only a few things we did last couple of seasons do

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None of these kids have developed into a star yet. Some of them could, but you can't sit here and say "at least the star kids haven't left", because as of right now, there aren't any.

The stars among our kids. The "better assets", "the core". Whatever you wanna call them

 

[Post Ironic]

It's an oxymoron, but I think Lebron destroys any team he attempts to rebuild once he leaves. Yes, that sounded confusing and paradoxical.

The Cavs are going to be irrelevant for many years to come (yes, I get that he finally won them a coveted title, but The Lakers aren't the Cavs and won't have that sort of patience moving forward).

The Heat are still struggling and might not even make the playoffs this year. Even if they do, they're nowhere near good enough to compete, and they've been in a rebuilding mode since Lebron left.

I don't know if it's worth sacrificing everything to appease Lebron because, at best, he's going to play for another 4-5 seasons. He might win one ring, if that.

He is indeed a toxic primadonna bitch, so the Lakers need to make a stand. They can't just cave in and give in to his demands.

That's a little over the top dude. He also managed to bring the city of Cleveland a championship for the first time in 50 years. While he is demanding as hell, and wants organizational input, he's brought his teams to 9 finals, and won 3 rings as clear finals mvp.

However, he's at a stage in his career that the Lakers shouldn't be caving to his demands at all, other than providing the best team they can around him and the young core, and taking an opportunity for an AD, etc, only if the price paid is favourable (in this case obviously not to an absurd degree). James needs to buy in like he said he had, and play as a part of a team, instead of a group of iso ball players with 3 point shooters. It's his best chance to be a part of something special to close out his career, and actually compete legitimately for championships over his last 5-6 years. In 3 years, a big 3 with him doesn't work, because he won't be at the dominant level required with a big 3 at the point. Team-building is essential now.

Would do wonders for his legacy if he helps create the next Lakers championship group even if he's only a very good veteran role guy at that point.

 

[Bianconero81]

You are a Magic fan? Didnt know, yeah its kinda sucks for Magic that whenever you trade someone talented, they hit it big elsewhere, happend to often.


thats why I say keep hold of Isaac, that kid has legit DOY the year talent, aslong as he polishes his super raw game. His offense seems horrid, but his defensive instincts are on point. He need lots of minutes and proper coaching.

Yeah. I grew up supporting the Magic in the 90s when we had Shaq and Penny. That was an amazing team. It was devastating when we traded Shaq and then with Penny's constant injury struggles. Even T-Mac and Hill didn't really do much for us. We were so close to getting Duncan; alas, it wasn't meant to be. Then, when we drafted Howard and built a team around him, we were legit contenders in the East. We haven't been the same since trading him. The 2009 finals are a distant memory now.

 

[Post Ironic]

Ofcourse he is. Lebron has a window of what, 3-4 years? Bullock is a player in his prime, an expiring, which we gave up an asset for. His cap hold is almost 5M, we cant even get one of the 33M max players while keeping him, Zubac and the 2019 1st round pick on their cap holds, let alone KD. So chances are he walks. This makes little sense to me, but in hindsight, only a few things we did last couple of seasons do

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The stars among our kids. The "better assets", "the core". Whatever you wanna call them

I read we can. His cap hold is 4.5 mil i believe and apparently we can afford a 32.5 mil player like Kyrie or Klay with him, not a 37 mil player like KD. And we can clearly afford a player like Middleton with him as a shooter.

Not to mention, I'm not too worried about losing Svi. I'd much rather have us playing playoff basketball this year by having a far superior player who doesn't affect our cap space at all if we let him walk. We're going to have a decent 15-20 pick in the draft to replace Svi, and if need be Bullock if he walks and we need to.

Playoff basketball shows some progression and will make us a more attractive free agent destination in the summer.

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Yeah. I grew up supporting the Magic in the 90s when we had Shaq and Penny. That was an amazing team. It was devastating when we traded Shaq and then with Penny's constant injury struggles. Even T-Mac and Hill didn't really do much for us. We were so close to getting Duncan; alas, it wasn't meant to be. Then, when we drafted Howard and built a team around him, we were legit contenders in the East. We haven't been the same since trading him. The 2009 finals are a distant memory now.

I loved Penny Hardaway so much when I was 10 years old haha.

 

[Bianconero81]

That's a little over the top dude. He also managed to bring the city of Cleveland a championship for the first time in 50 years. While he is demanding as hell, and wants organizational input, he's brought his teams to 9 finals, and won 3 rings as clear finals mvp.

However, he's at a stage in his career that the Lakers shouldn't be caving to his demands at all, other than providing the best team they can around him and the young core, and taking an opportunity for an AD, etc, only if the price paid is favourable (in this case obviously not to an absurd degree). James needs to buy in like he said he had, and play as a part of a team, instead of a group of iso ball players with 3 point shooters. It's his best chance to be a part of something special to close out his career, and actually compete legitimately for championships over his last 5-6 years. In 3 years, a big 3 with him doesn't work, because he won't be at the dominant level required with a big 3 at the point. Team-building is essential now.

Would do wonders for his legacy if he helps create the next Lakers championship group even if he's only a very good veteran role guy at that point.

You know I don't like Lebron, so any opportunity to take a dig at him results in me channeling my inner Skip Bayless

 

[Post Ironic]

And this is why I will be furious if they trade every young player and multiple 1st round picks for Davis.

Winning 1 Championship and being bad-mediocre for the next decade might be OK for the people of Cleveland. But not for Laker fans. We like sustainable success. Not throwing everything away for 1 title. Hell, the Lakers have NEVER done that. Ever.[/QUOTE]

100% this.

As I said, if Lebron is worried about his legacy, slow down, help develop these youngsters, teach them, guide them, lead them, let Magic work free agency this summer and next, make some opportunity trades, we'll get a second star of some sort for sure, plus other pieces, and build the next Lakers championship level team.

His legacy looks far better if he's a part of creating a real championship team here, even if he is a veteran role player when the championship(s) arrive, then winning a single championship as the "Lebrons" and leaving the Lakers a mess.