The NBA Thread (8 Viewers)

Aug 30, 2002
49,076
This is exactly it PI, I questionned ziznho because its not based on reality, you cant go from bums to favourites by just magically thinking you go from not being able to attract any free agents to attracting the hardest to get free agent in Kawhi. That is just not worth discussing IMO.


And I rate AD highly, but him alone wont make you championship favourites, its not how it works, team building. Especially when he will be super hard to get despite how willing he is to come, and for him to come you will gut your core team most likely (since you are basically just some old temporary vets who should leave, Lebron and a young core that will most likely be sacrificed to get AD). And all this is going to be done, jump to favourites, by an organisation that has shown it is a complete joke in the past year? I dont buy it, until I see any basis for it.
 
Sep 16, 2003
29,458
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    CR 7

I'm going to say this again.

Lebron, AD, and a Max Salary cap slot is a good place to start, especially for a franchise that has been as dysfunctional as the Lakers. Does it make them instant championship contenders? No. But if they get someone like Kyrie? Lebron, AD, and Kyrie?

There are a lot of teams out there that would love to start the offseason with those three aces up their sleeve.

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And one more thing, and it would be a disservice if I didn't.


Suddenly the Lakers young core is not worth breaking up now? The same people on here who for the last 2 years called it mediocre or slightly above average now have an issue with them trading two of those pieces away.

That's funny.
 
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Aug 30, 2002
49,076
If its just you having AD and ageing Lebron and nothing else (as in genuine top level FA star=, it is risky to break up, because you dont have much else to work with (cheap decent youngsters to fill out roster), especially if its giving up all 3 of them (and 4th pic). But if you are getting a true 3rd star with max cap space (stop dreaming about Kawhi, not gonna happen), Kuzma or BI can be forgotten quick (I dont think Ball will be much of a factor because he is likely trade bait even without AD deal if your 3rd star is a PG). I would trade BI over Kuzma tho, because BI is gonna need to be paid big soon, and he isnt producing in that level to get paid. While Kuzma makes perfect sense to keep as scoring starter or volume scorer 6th man no matter how the team shapes up.



And all of this are moot, you are so beyond dysfunctional as organisaiton that I dont see it turning out all roses for you. We were here in last summer and you guys were dreaming like this too, this time around despite the amazing AD angle, your organisation has way worse reputation now for FAs. Take it one step at a time and overshoot for the stars yet (championship or favourite talk), you will be way less dissapointed that way if it doesnt pan out again.
 
Sep 16, 2003
29,458
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    CR 7

I don't remember EVER mentioning Kawhi.

And let's say for instance they don't get 1 max free agent with their cap space, but two very good players, especially one of them being a shooter.

What exactly is wrong with that?

Let's say for the sake of argument that it is Lebron, AD, Kuzma, and Hart as the first 4 pieces of the roster.

Get a couple of good players with the cap space.

Get a big man with the MLE

Fill out the roster with veteran minimum contracts.


Isn't that team markedly better than last year?

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The bottom line is if they get AD, this franchise is headed in the right direction
 
Oct 28, 2010
40,569
  • ALC

    ALC

If its just you having AD and ageing Lebron and nothing else (as in genuine top level FA star=, it is risky to break up, because you dont have much else to work with (cheap decent youngsters to fill out roster), especially if its giving up all 3 of them (and 4th pic). But if you are getting a true 3rd star with max cap space (stop dreaming about Kawhi, not gonna happen), Kuzma or BI can be forgotten quick (I dont think Ball will be much of a factor because he is likely trade bait even without AD deal if your 3rd star is a PG). I would trade BI over Kuzma tho, because BI is gonna need to be paid big soon, and he isnt producing in that level to get paid. While Kuzma makes perfect sense to keep as scoring starter or volume scorer 6th man no matter how the team shapes up.



And all of this are moot, you are so beyond dysfunctional as organisaiton that I dont see it turning out all roses for you. We were here in last summer and you guys were dreaming like this too, this time around despite the amazing AD angle, your organisation has way worse reputation now for FAs. Take it one step at a time and overshoot for the stars yet (championship or favourite talk), you will be way less dissapointed that way if it doesnt pan out again.
Are you saying free agents will turn down a chance to work with Rob Pelinka? Because there are some huge perks there, such as having dinner with Michael Jackson and getting free tickets to Amy Winehouse concerts.
 
Aug 30, 2002
49,076
I was adressing guys who mentionned Kawhi, and the the topic wasnt about being better then last year, but being favourite for title. This is what I was cautioning against. Not getting legit stars with the cap space wont be enough IMO to compete. As great AD and Lebron are, they will need more around them. Depends on who the signings are, and more importantly their fit, Lebron needs spot up shooters and defenders around him.



And yes no matter what, even if with no AD, you should be better then last season, abject failure like that cant be acceptable another season. Defenitely have to make the playoffs at the minimum.

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Are you saying free agents will turn down a chance to work with Rob Pelinka? Because there are some huge perks there, such as having dinner with Michael Jackson and getting free tickets to Amy Winehouse concerts.

Thats the thing, for months now, the Lakers front office and organisation are the DE FACTO butt of the joke of the league. This after a last summer where they didnt attract the FAs they wanted. Its gonna be WAY harder to get genuine star pulling power after all that mess. Regardless of getting AD, its gonna be tricky, and the narratives of playing with Lebron has turned negative instead of positive past couple years, so that in itself is challennging enough before even considering the complete incompetence of the whole organisation.
 
Aug 30, 2002
49,076
Little about Wolves, this is fairly interesting op piece/article of organisational outlook of the new dynamic front office (long but interesting read:

"A well-thought out and reasonable take:

I think the point being missed about the Saunders hire is that the criteria that determines a successful HC in the NBA is changing. You’ve got guys from the G-League leading teams to the Finals in their first year. You’ve got retread experienced HCs mired in perennial mediocrity.

It seems like it used to be that the best coaches needed to have playing credibility and a fair amount of experience. They needed to be masters at X’s and O’s, or supreme motivators. Common to all, though, was the perception that the HC is the primary basketball strategy and coaching leverage point. I don’t think that’s true anymore.

The most forward thinking teams lean on their analytics, predictive modeling, and scouting to inform the actual strategies used on the floor. The Rockets have a made a living off doing this. You think D’Antoni is solely responsible for the strategy and tactics used?

I think what you see around the League is a mix of necessary components for success: scouting, analytics, X’s and O’s, player development (these are the big ones off the top of my head). You need to have a great person (or people) covering all of these to have your foot in the door, and you need all of these working together to achieve a synergy greater than the sum of the parts. Otherwise you end up with the Wolves or Pelicans, or last year’s Bucks. Talented teams that can’t quite put it together (I’m referencing underachieving more than competing for a title, as the Pels and Wolves obviously need more pieces to compete for a championship, and arguably they underachieved given what talents they did have).

I don’t think it matters as much who covers which component as long as someone does. As a result, it seems as though the new model for success in pro sports is a marriage of two executives: one on the FO side and one on the coaching side. I say executives because these guys need to be on the same page and establish the culture and business practices – the how – that everyone will use. What they actually do is often farmed out to the best people you can get, if it’s not in your skillset.

So the Vikings have Spielman and Zimmer, and Spielman has a bunch of great scouts and Bryz (salary cap genius). Zimmer is great at defense, and gets the best offensive coordinator he can. BUT, Zimmer is a master communicator and sets the entire culture of the team, and can tell Spielman exactly what he needs in players.

The Twins have Falvey and Levine. Falvey is an analytics guy, with a specialty in pitching. They hired Rocco Baldelli this year to establish the culture they wanted in the clubhouse, AND because Baldelli is a master communicator with players. Baldelli is 37 and has never been a manager before, so the Twins hired great coaches around them, and this year the Twins are a top 3 team in all of MLB.

So the Wolves hire Rosas, who hires Pascucci and Gupta, and also sticks with Saunders, whose chief skill is as a master communicator. Rosas has stated over and over again that Saunders will be surrounded by great coaches, and that Saunders chief responsibility is to establish culture and oversee all of these pieces working together – just like Baldelli or even Zimmer (although football isn’t quite so analytically driven). Kerr is a master communicator. So is Nurse, Bud, and many of the others.

These guys (HCs) don’t have to brilliant themselves at coming up with stuff – they need to be brilliant at sorting through all the insights your analytics staff is providing you and getting your team of coaches to put it together into something coherent and then message it to players and get them to buy in. The skill your analytics staff can’t give you is the communication/collaboration part. Can you imagine trying to get Smitch to partner effectively with Rosas? Or Thibs? So I think you see Rosas choosing to hire an innate skill that’s really hard to teach (communication/collaboration) that is a prerequisite for success on the floor when using analytics, and bank on his (Rosas’) ability to hire enough good people to cover any lack of experience or knowledge sets.

The Twins pulled a great pitching coach from the college ranks. These guys are out there – innovators who simply need a chance to prove their ideas and not get caught in the aristocracy of pro sports (where there are still a lot of decision makers who are very traditional – so you get idiot former players offering hot takes on national TV and then being considered as a GM for no other reason than they were once a good player?). It’s ridiculous.

I don’t know if Saunders will be successful. I fully buy into Rosas’ other moves, and am reserving judgment until we see the Wolves on the floor (and we see who is brought in as assistants). I think Rosas believes in himself and his own ability to tell any HC what works and what doesn’t. Saunders seems like a hire in line with that, and seems like the kind of thing you will see more and more in sports – HC as an executive rather than a tactician."


After the dinosaur that is Thibs being both coach and entire front office, its refreshing to get a POBO in Rosas that was a key figure in Rockets as their VP for past decade, Sachin Gupta as 2nd guy who worked with Rosas in Rockets, and also Hinkie's Philly (and Pistons recently) as the premier cap space/trading guru expert in both places. And Pascucci also former Rockets but Nets head of scouting operations, finding them most of their late round gems currently.


Its nice to see a semblance of a proper modern basketball organisation shaping up.



The teams biggest need is shooting and PG, and Rosas isnt slacking, seems to be constant rumours of:



The degree to which the Wolves are interested in Russell isn’t immediately clear. Rosas has kept a fairly low profile since taking over the job and busily assembling his front-office staff, choosing Saunders as his head coach and then helping to assemble the assistants around him.

But some level of interest is both understandable and encouraging from the Wolves’ perspective. Officials with teams around the league already are noticing an aggressiveness in engagement, league sources told The Athletic. And with Rosas and Gupta at the top of the food chain, most believe that any and all options will be considered when it comes to reshaping the roster around Towns, who has been less clandestine about his feelings toward Russell.


https://theathletic.com/1011428/201...ould-the-wolves-make-a-play-for-the-all-star/

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Not long til the draft, this is the guy I hope Wolves take at 11th:





Tho most likely we'll pick brandon Clarke, a short but high flying PF, or NAW, PG talent.
 
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Aug 30, 2002
49,076
Nah not resigning most likely, cant afford him sadly. He will ask for a significant raise, and he was volume scorer off the bench on minimum deal. Now will ask for multi year and bigger mid level sum most likely. Hope he stays healthy, plays with alot of heart, but is injured too much to pay much right now.
 
Apr 14, 2013
42,769
PI only mentioned Kawhi as a "if we get him, wed be this much good", and then i commented on that, no one thinks we are getting him as of now. I dont even think we are getting AD or Kyrie or Butler, but lets see
 
Oct 28, 2010
40,569
  • ALC

    ALC

PI only mentioned Kawhi as a "if we get him, wed be this much good", and then i commented on that, no one thinks we are getting him as of now. I dont even think we are getting AD or Kyrie or Butler, but lets see
You’re definitely not getting Butler

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Nah not resigning most likely, cant afford him sadly. He will ask for a significant raise, and he was volume scorer off the bench on minimum deal. Now will ask for multi year and bigger mid level sum most likely. Hope he stays healthy, plays with alot of heart, but is injured too much to pay much right now.
Sucks, hope he ends up somewhere good, love watching the dude play.

Wiggins’ contract has you guys fucked for a while unfortunately, not sure how you can get rid of that except waiting it out and hoping KAT is still elite by the time Wiggins is done
 
Apr 14, 2013
42,769
You’re definitely not getting Butler

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Sucks, hope he ends up somewhere good, love watching the dude play.

Wiggins’ contract has you guys fucked for a while unfortunately, not sure how you can get rid of that except waiting it out and hoping KAT is still elite by the time Wiggins is done
Is he staying? Last time i glanced at rumors, he was supposed to leave, no idea about current situation
 
Aug 30, 2002
49,076
Wiggins you just wait out and hope he keeps scoring as a third option (will take lots of shots but can still score 20ppg), his contract is not gonna be moveable. My immediate worry cap space wise is Dieng, he is utterly useless more so now we have Saric. And also Teague who gets 19m a year but is not good (what he produces you can get from a player earning 7m a year), need to find a PG who can attack basket and shoot from perimeter, team needs ball handling shot creating guard badly.


Lets hope the new Front office can work few decent trades when teams get desperate to compete and try to offload players for cap space. Because we are defenitely in cap hell for a while yet, Dieng and Teague needs to go, and we hopefully draft well at 11th.
 

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