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[JCK]

I stayed out of it because I didn't want to cry.


On another note:
Can we start an argument about how bad an idea it is to have email on your cell phone?

I can start an argument of how bad an idea it is to have any other function than call and SMS on your cell phone.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[Enron]

I can start an argument of how bad an idea it is to have any other function than call and SMS on your cell phone.

I'd have to agree with that.

 

[Martin]

Kind = brand. You say brand names reflect a person's values or personality. My point was that how someone uses their computer, through customization of its features or whatever you want to call it is a more accurate reflection of values or self than simply the brand of computer someone owns or operating system he prefers.

No. Noone buys a Mac to run Windows or Linux on it. The only way you would buy a Mac, which is more expensive than the average computer, is because you want to run Mac OS. So yes, buying a Mac pins you down. That is not true of Dell or Toshiba or HP etc because their products all come with the same operating system at the same price more or less. So a guy buying a Toshiba doesn't tell you anything about his values, because the brand doesn't stand out either as more expensive or that it ships with a different operating system than the one that 90% of people use. If you buy a Mac over Dell you have a reason. If you buy Toshiba over Dell you don't need a reason other than price.

My point was that how someone uses their computer, through customization of its features or whatever you want to call it is a more accurate reflection of values or self than simply the brand of computer someone owns or operating system he prefers.

No. Because operating systems are a lot more diverse than computers from different brands are. The applications someone uses tells you more about the person, but the operating system says a lot too. Or to be more accurate, it can, when it's not Windows.

You're actions reflect your values, no? If you go and kill someone you probably have bad morals.

But you're right motivation does lead to action. I guess I'll just go back to my original point that a computer isn't a completely accurate litmus test for a person's values.

In the words of Gary Busey, "How do you know? You weren't in my body".

Actions are determined by values, not values are determined by actions, that's what you wrote.

 

[Enron]

No. Noone buys a Mac to run Windows or Linux on it. The only way you would buy a Mac, which is more expensive than the average computer, is because you want to run Mac OS. So yes, buying a Mac pins you down. That is not true of Dell or Toshiba or HP etc because their products all come with the same operating system at the same price more or less. So a guy buying a Toshiba doesn't tell you anything about his values, because the brand doesn't stand out either as more expensive or that it ships with a different operating system than the one that 90% of people use. If you buy a Mac over Dell you have a reason. If you buy Toshiba over Dell you don't need a reason other than price.

Buying a Mac makes you a conformer, anything else is an act of individuality. Except that people that buy non-Macs are really purchasing an operating system. I think we all know that now.

Considering people with Mac partition their hard drives (I have at least 3 professors that do that, I asked around after our earlier discussion) it's almost a certainty that in the future people may indeed purchase Mac's to run windows or Linux.

No. Because operating systems are a lot more diverse than computers from different brands are. The applications someone uses tells you more about the person, but the operating system says a lot too. Or to be more accurate, it can, when it's not Windows.

Sure it is, how many people really know the difference between operating systems. You do because of you're expertise. But you aren't everyone. Sure the operating system reflects you're values. You never said, computers reflect your personal values, you said the reflect everyone's which isn't true. I tried to help you out by saying that I can see how values or preferences could be reflected through style, personalization or whatever. You denied that was possible merely because you have a better knowledge of computers than the average person.

The average person buys a computer based on price, reliability, and user friendliness. Criteria that hardly reflect values.

Actions are determined by values, not values are determined by actions, that's what you wrote.

If you want to be like that. Suck on this.

Retraction... Actions reflect values. There's no denying that.

 

[Martin]

This conversation seriously hurts my brain. No progress is made.

Buying a Mac makes you a conformer, anything else is an act of individuality. Except that people that buy non-Macs are really purchasing an operating system. I think we all know that now.

Considering people with Mac partition their hard drives (I have at least 3 professors that do that, I asked around after our earlier discussion) it's almost a certainty that in the future people may indeed purchase Mac's to run windows or Linux.

Noone buys a Mac to run Windows or Linux ONLY on it. Got it? As in of course ONCE YOU HAVE MAC OS AND YOU WANT SOMETHING EXTRA you can dualboot another operating system. Can it get any more obvious? But to run your operating system OF CHOICE other than Mac OS noone would buy a Mac. Therefore buying a Mac says about you at minimum that you want to use Mac OS. No equivalent conclusion holds with Toshiba etc.

I have absolutely no clue how else you understood my previous post or what the premise is for your new conclusion. It's beyond me.

Sure it is, how many people really know the difference between operating systems.

More madness. Those who pick an operating system (ie. buy a Mac or install Linux) do know the difference between operating systems, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this, would they?

You do because of you're expertise. But you aren't everyone. Sure the operating system reflects you're values. You never said, computers reflect your personal values, you said the reflect everyone's which isn't true. I tried to help you out by saying that I can see how values or preferences could be reflected through style, personalization or whatever. You denied that was possible merely because you have a better knowledge of computers than the average person.

I never said that or made any statement that would result in that conclusion. You are coming up with a lot of weird conclusion that supposedly come from me.

The average person buys a computer based on price, reliability, and user friendliness. Criteria that hardly reflect values.

I see now we've redefined the term "values". So now wanting a computer that's reliable doesn't reflect a user's values? I value a reliable computer, that's a value of mine.


Just tell me you're screwing with me, I'll be much relieved.

 

[Enron]

This conversation seriously hurts my brain. No progress is made.

It's not my fault you can't keep up. Try stepping out of the box every once in a while.

Noone buys a Mac to run Windows or Linux ONLY on it. Got it? As in of course ONCE YOU HAVE MAC OS AND YOU WANT SOMETHING EXTRA you can dualboot another operating system. Can it get any more obvious? But to run your operating system OF CHOICE other than Mac OS noone would buy a Mac. Therefore buying a Mac says about you at minimum that you want to use Mac OS. No equivalent conclusion holds with Toshiba etc.

I have absolutely no clue how else you understood my previous post or what the premise is for your new conclusion. It's beyond me.

I understand that. But other than the reality being a preference between Mac OS or something else. I don't see your point. People who buy Macs generally like the OS or they wouldn't purchase them.

More madness. Those who pick an operating system (ie. buy a Mac or install Linux) do know the difference between operating systems, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this, would they?

Just because people know there are different operating systems doesn't mean they know the difference between them. For example, Linux is praised quite highly on these forums and recently there have been a few "converts". I doubt these people knew the intracasies of the system before trying it out.

I never said that or made any statement that would result in that conclusion. You are coming up with a lot of weird conclusion that supposedly come from me.

That's some strong B/S.

I said "My point was that how someone uses their computer, through customization of its features or whatever you want to call it is a more accurate reflection of values or self than simply the brand of computer someone owns or operating system he prefers".

You said "No. Because operating systems are a lot more diverse than computers from different brands are. The applications someone uses tells you more about the person, but the operating system says a lot too. Or to be more accurate, it can, when it's not Windows".

Earlier you said "No, but they do say something about us sometimes, don't they? The items don't own us, we chose to own the items. Those items over others. It exposes our values".

I see now we've redefined the term "values". So now wanting a computer that's reliable doesn't reflect a user's values? I value a reliable computer, that's a value of mine.

Just tell me you're screwing with me, I'll be much relieved.

Redefined values? I don't think we've had a standard idea of what values are.

 

[Martin]

I said "My point was that how someone uses their computer, through customization of its features or whatever you want to call it is a more accurate reflection of values or self than simply the brand of computer someone owns or operating system he prefers".

You said "No. Because operating systems are a lot more diverse than computers from different brands are. The applications someone uses tells you more about the person, but the operating system says a lot too. Or to be more accurate, it can, when it's not Windows".

Earlier you said "No, but they do say something about us sometimes, don't they? The items don't own us, we chose to own the items. Those items over others. It exposes our values".

You never said, computers reflect your personal values, you said the reflect everyone's which isn't true.

Show me where I said that computers reflect everyone's values. I call your bluff.

You usually have your logic straight, Aaron, but you are not making any sense whatsoever in this conversation. And the further it goes on the further it goes off the tracks. I can't remember how far back it was when we last had a common premise or even understood each other's premise.

 

[Bjerknes]

Mind you that I was talking about Apple products in general and not only their computers but here you go, just some example out the top of my head:

1- The laptops batteries are not replaceable and it is a wide known fact that batteries do get damaged often.
2- RAM modules cannot be added.
3- Their Mac air does not have an optical drive.
4- Their iPhone doesn't have extra memory.
5- Their iPods don't read all music formats

What Burke said.

And yeah, for numero 5 you can change the format. Come on Jack, you know that.

Indeed and everyone with half a brain can see that they are simply fake.

Fake to you might be reality for others. Do you really think the Catalan people are fake?

See Jack that's where you're wrong. Just because someone likes Barcelona doesn't mean they're stupid.

Where did I say that? I've met many smart people in my life who like fake things, it's all down to personal preferences and taste. As for your previous post, it's all about the possibilities that is lacking and found in other equivalent much cheaper devices.

Do you tell the people you meet they enjoy "fake" things?

If so, I wonder how they respond. Especially say, for instance, if they're wearing a Barcelona jersey and was born in Barcelona. The jersey is real; the fabric is tangible, the Official Nike gear proof is sewn on, the club badge is sewn on, et cetera.

It would be interesting to see you prove to your counterpart that he's supporting a "fake" club. Who knows, maybe you could be successful..

By "you people" I mean don't always lump me in with Burke and Andy.

So "you people" now just consists of Burke and me?

What, are we two peas in the same pod, two clowns with the same suit, or two bacteria cells in the same class of Bacillus? :confused2 You make it sound like a bad thing.

As I said from the beginning, I don't really care about what people buy or prefer but I do give advice if asked to. I know Andy was just trying to fuck with me (and I don't really give a toss) but I still answered his question based on how I see the products.

I wasn't trying to fuck with you, just merely trying to see what you truly meant. I've still yet to see an argument as to why I made a mistake buying a Mac, however. Besides from that stuff posted by Martin in another thread, of course.

Noone buys a Mac to run Windows or Linux ONLY on it. Got it? As in of course ONCE YOU HAVE MAC OS AND YOU WANT SOMETHING EXTRA you can dualboot another operating system. Can it get any more obvious? But to run your operating system OF CHOICE other than Mac OS noone would buy a Mac. Therefore buying a Mac says about you at minimum that you want to use Mac OS. No equivalent conclusion holds with Toshiba etc.

I have absolutely no clue how else you understood my previous post or what the premise is for your new conclusion. It's beyond me.

More madness. Those who pick an operating system (ie. buy a Mac or install Linux) do know the difference between operating systems, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this, would they?

I never said that or made any statement that would result in that conclusion. You are coming up with a lot of weird conclusion that supposedly come from me.

I see now we've redefined the term "values". So now wanting a computer that's reliable doesn't reflect a user's values? I value a reliable computer, that's a value of mine.

Just tell me you're screwing with me, I'll be much relieved.

The Mac OS is so damn simple to use though. Well, maybe not for people who are used to Windows, but the fact still remains. I started using a Mac at an early age as that's what my father used in molecular biology, and I always asked him why he didn't use Windows. For the past decade or so I have been using Windows with my PC, but once my dad started using the new Powerbook a few years ago, I was pretty much sold. Burke's MacBook Pro was just setting it in stone for me. Mac OS 12 or whatever was easily to manipulate, everything ran smoothly, and I didn't have to worry about any spyware or other nonsense screwing matters up. So, to me, ease of use is pretty important. And now since I figured out how to use Linux on this piece, it suits my needs perfectly.

 

[Enron]

Show me where I said that computers reflect everyone's values. I call your bluff.

You usually have your logic straight, Aaron, but you are not making any sense whatsoever in this conversation. And the further it goes on the further it goes off the tracks. I can't remember how far back it was when we last had a common premise or even understood each other's premise.

You didn't say everyone's values. You used the word ours which leads to the believe that values are being reflected beyond yourself. If you meant something else sorry for the misinterpretation.

I guess you've noticed that too. I don't really know what point you're trying to make nor do I know what mine is either. To be honest with you I'm just arguing with you to see how long you can go. Basically to wear you out.

 

[Martin]

You didn't say everyone's values. You used the word ours which leads to the believe that values are being reflected beyond yourself. If you meant something else sorry for the misinterpretation.

I guess you've noticed that too. I don't really know what point you're trying to make nor do I know what mine is either. To be honest with you I'm just arguing with you to see how long you can go. Basically to wear you out.

Now you know. I can go forever, I've never given up on a debate so long as there is some semblance of common premise. But when you take the battery out, the bunny stops.

 

[Bjerknes]

By the way, I heard today that Apple is coming out with their own search engine. :excited:

 

[Enron]

So "you people" now just consists of Burke and me?

What, are we two peas in the same pod, two clowns with the same suit, or two bacteria cells in the same class of Bacillus? :confused2 You make it sound like a bad thing.

I was just pointing out that we don't always have the same opinions. And even though we are fairly tight as friends we don't speak for each other.

For example, I like the EPL. You hate it. But we both have Macs.

 

[Enron]

Now you know. I can go forever, I've never given up on a debate so long as there is some semblance of common premise. But when you take the battery out, the bunny stops.

Premise, schpemise. It's not about staying on topic. It's about trying to take you away from the original argument to a new field of play, if that doesn't work deny and confuse.

I'll get you Tin. It's my new life goal. Though I should probably select a topic I'm somewhat passionate about next time.

 

[Enron]

By the way, I heard today that Apple is coming out with their own search engine. :excited:

Hope it's better than Safari.

 

[Martin]

Premise, schpemise. It's not about staying on topic. It's about trying to take you away from the original argument to a new field of play, if that doesn't work deny and confuse.

I'll get you Tin. It's my new life goal. Though I should probably select a topic I'm somewhat passionate about next time.

You won't get me, I do not walk into traps.

 

[Enron]

You won't get me, I do not walk into traps.

That's not going to stop me from setting them.

 

[Martin]

I've never had an arch enemy, this could be a hoot. MacGyver and Murdoc.

 

[Enron]

I've never had an arch enemy, this could be a hoot. MacGyver and Murdoc.

Should be fun. Though it will be on a friendlier level than Seniors M and M.