The...I want this player to Juve thread (24 Viewers)

[Raz]

I saw 4 or 5 games this season and very few good crosses and a lot of awful ones, maybe its just bad luck, i just told you what i have seen from him Maybe he is a good crosser, but in the matches i have seen he realy messed them up.

 

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[Rollie]

I've got some stats for the snake midget - 3 Scudetti, 2 Italian Super cups, and a World Cup.

Statistics are not the only measure of a player - they're important, but certainly not the be all and end all. There are so many variables and intangibles that go into the makeup of a player - you usually can't boil down a players contribution to a few numbers

It's important to look at how the numbers come. For example, are they at the detriment of the team (i.e. is the player selfish), or are the stats padded against weaker clubs (such as Adebayor's goal tally from last year, which included what, 6 goals against Derby)? I'm not specifically referring to Young here, but you get my point.

Camo is clutch in the big games, and he's the best midfielder we have. God bless the guy, lets get him healthy and then see what his impact on our side is. I think it'll be huge - IMO, Marchionni is currently the weakest link in our starting lineup.

Ashley Young is a very good player, on his way to possibly being a great player. Camoranesi has long been underrated around the world (especially by the English, who tend to underrate anything/anyone Italian - even Gigi); Camo is a flat out winner, Young hasn't really won anything yet.

Quite frankly, Camo has been hurt so much the past two years that the vast majority of people I meet now underrate his ability. When this happens, I always point out the tremendous influence Camo had on our team after he came back from injury last year - it was just massive. I still think that during the second half of the 2007-08 season, Camo was Juventus' best player (with all due respect to Alex).

All of this talk about internet ratings, etc. - well for me, that's usually a lot of bullshit. Those stats are fucking pointless, as they're subjective numbers provided by frequently biased pundits. Fucking hell, those aren't legitimate stats. That's like Snake Midget backing up that goal.com article with one from the daily mail - that doesn't make the subject matter in the article true.

Backing up one useless gossip rag with another is pointless. Why don't you pull some "facts" from wikipedia for your argument while you're at it?

 

[Fred]

HAHAHHAHHAHHAHA

- Lampard plays on the side when ballack plays center... .. but fuck that, he is not better than camo HAHAHHAHAHAHA are you insane? he is waaaaaaaaay better... by a HUGE distance.. better than camo anyday any time and especially this season.. do you even know who is lampard? would you like me to get you some statistics?

- Kuyt is a good player no more than that and so is camoranesi. Kuyt scored goals more than our entire midfield combined and is far more consistent than camo. but i value the same equally but currently kuyt is better.

- Arteta has been brilliant with everton this season .. he has scored 5 goals and 6 assists so far this season and is continiuosly shining. DEFINITELY currently better than camo.

- Valencia is a young player from wigan.. has been brilliant this season and is already in talks with real madrid. watch him grow and remember this post when he becomes one hell of a player.


- Ashley young has broke his way into England's squad... he is one of the best midfielders in the world now.. has been linked with real madrid too. he carries aston villa to the 4th spot in EPL scoring 5 goals and 8 assists this season so far, last year 8 goals and 17 assists... so by far better than camo.. dont criticize what you do not know.

- Nasri has been brilliant this season with arsenal especially after fabregas got injured.. another new miracle worker on the rise.

- Modric is hitting back form... if you watched the euros then you've watched modric no need to say anything further.

- Walcott? camo is faster? do you really watch football?... camo used to be fast relatively to our old slow players but he is not even close to walcott... walcott is a speed demon and a much better dribbler than camo.. and is still a little kid.

- Riera is a player who broke his way into liverpool's starting 11... his style reminds me of camo back in the good days.



You obviously do not watch EPL as the statements you made cannot come out from a sane person's mouth. Don't criticize what you do not understand.
I challenge you to go on a non juve forum and say camo is in the top 5 midfielders in the world... and you'll get the response.
especially when you say he is better than ashley young .

Ok, now first Modric and Lampard are not in any way wingers, they never have been and they never will be, so we'll take those out of the equation. I'm going to answer on all the other players.


Kuyt is a hard worker and a good player, i'm not his biggest fan, but he gets the job done and he is an extremely consistent player. But to say he's a better winger than Camo is just insane, the only thing he's better than Camo in, is his workrate(which says a lot, cos Camo has a high work rate himself).

Arteta, i'm a big fan of Arteta's tbh, and i even think he should get a call up to the Spanish NT, he's a great crosser of the ball, a brilliant passer and is very versatile, he can use both feet and he's a deadly set piece taker, definitely one of the top attacking midfielders in Europe. But still i'd take Camo over him, Camo tops him in technical ability, is a better dribbler and has been a better player over the course of his career.


Valencia?? Come on man, you can do better than that, he's a good player, but better than Camo? You are stretching it, he has absolutely nothing on Camoranesi, its not even a close comparison.


Ashley Young, he has proved me wrong, as i expected him to fade away after a while, but he's been consistent for 2 and a half years now, and he is now imo one of the top wingers in the world. But firstly, he isn't as good on the right as he is on the left, so i consider him a left winger more than a right winger. Secondly, as good as he is, i'd take an on form Camo any day. Young is a faster player, but thats about it.


Nasri, he's been brilliant this season? Which matches have you been watching? maybe you were watching old Marseille games and thought it was Arsenal, because the Nasri i watch week in week out is as far from brilliant as they get. He had a few great games (Porto, Man Utd come to mind) but he's inconsistent and he's failed to give us that spark, we so much need with Cesc out injured.

Walcott, this is his first good season. His decision making still leaves a lot to be desired, and technically i feel he could be better. People here know that i think he's a bit overrated. That being said, before his injury he was one of our best players. Still not even close to Camo on form, not even in his best day.

 

[Slow_Roll]

you really think camo's last season is better than walcott's last season?


this is indeed scary stuff.
please comment on ashley young.

Ok I didn't watch all the Arsenal matches, but considering that and the fact that Camo was injured for the first half of the season. Can you honestly say when both of them played Walcott was the one who impressed more? I'm seriosly having trouble taking you seriously if you do. I'm trying to be fair here but you're using arguments like A. Young(who definately is good) broke into England team, When Camo was a starter for a Italy team that won Euro's and WC.

 

[Fred]

I watch Arsenal week in week out (duh, they're my team), Walcott is not better than a Camoranesi on form, not even close.

Snake Midget is just one of the many delusional EPL fans Alen talked about earlier.

 

[Osman]

Um, Not that they are even comparable when both at their best, but Walcott last season was an inconsistent mediocre youngster. He has shown improvement this season, been excellent, but thats it. Not it really matters wether its when his at his best or not. He is still no match for Camoranesi.

 

[Fred]

Um, Not that they are even comparable when both at their best, but Walcott last season was an inconsistent mediocre youngster. He has shown improvement this season, been excellent, but thats it. Not it really matters wether its when his at his best or not. He is still no match for Camoranesi.

True that.

I've heard many people going on about how great he was last season?? Strange, as i remember Eboue who is an average winger being better than him last season, he was average at best barring a good game against the Brum and a good 10 minutes against Liverpool where he had a fantastic solo effort.

And yes he is not comparable to Camo, i can't believe someone who's watched both players can come up with a conclusion other than that.

 

[Bjerknes]

Snake Midget apparently doesn't understand the concept of injuries.

But as such he can't see beyond the wall in front of him.

Put him out of his misery.

 

[Enron]

Someone should tell him Riera and Young are both left sided players.

 

[Enron]

They did say he IS in the top 3.
They are sore that the EPL is by far stronger and better than Serie a in everyway.
Inter would contend for a CL spot if it were an English team. Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool are stronger than any Italian Team since Calciopoli. Arsenal used to be better except for this year. if anyone wants to engage is a Serie a VS EPL argument then lets move to another thread and discuss it thoroughly. I Praise the EPL because its worth praising.. i used to Praise Serie a when it deserved it.

Now back to camo, .. some people claimed he is in the top 3 midfielders in the game.
I mix up between those who play on the right and on the left so i am going to give a list of who are currently better than camo regardless of their left or right position.
- Lampard by a distance
- Valencia
- Kuyt
- Arteta (switches positions)
- Ronaldo by a distance
- Nasri
- A Young (by a distance)
- Modric (i hope we sign him)
- Walcott
- Riera (he is a lot like camo in the old days)
- Joe cole



:burke:
i havent moved into la liga as obviously, all barca midfielders are better than him.

Now let me have it

- Lampard by a distance - Not a right midlfielder
- Valencia - no comment, haven't seen enough of him
- Kuyt- Not at all better than Camo, in anything but work ethic and finishing
- Arteta (switches positions) - Probably better this season
- Ronaldo by a distance - DUH
- Nasri - Not a winger
- A Young (by a distance)- plays on the left
- Modric (i hope we sign him) - not a winger
- Walcott- Not better than Camo at crossing
- Riera (he is a lot like camo in the old days) - plays on the left side
- Joe cole - Not really a winger either.

 

[Hist]

Thats a shit load of responses so i'll give a general reply as i am too lazy to quote each.

Camo and Kuyt are completely different. Even if both play in the same position.. rafa benitez uses Kuyt in building up play and adding pace to the game. He needs him as a constant menace regardless of whether he scored or not. Think of him the way Ferguson uses Park but way more productive and annoying.

Kuyt is less talented but more consistent and literally never gets injured. did i mention he was the dutch league's top scorer once?

Camo on form is better than kuyt but how often does camo play on form?
i think if we had kuyt he would give us more of his services as he never misses a game in all competitions and is amazingly consistent. Camo at his peak is probably better than Kuyt but his numerous injuries and inconsistency makes him less useful for the team.

SO .. we here have a talented player (camo) who is amazing on form but is injured most of the seasons and inconsistent.
against a less talented player that plays good (less than camo on form) but provides his service every match at an amazingly consistent rate and literally never gets injured.


ashley young is a super talented guy that scores and assists in huge amounts and is consistent (not kuyt consistent but still very consistent relatively to camo) He rarely gets injured and is still at the beginning of his career and still has a lot to fulfill.
Ashley young IS better than the current camo. We can also say an on form ashley young at this age is equivalent to an on form camo from the old days.
I am sorry guys but try avoiding your juve bias.. Young is the next big thing twice EPL PLAYER OF THE MONTH so far this year alone and still improving.


Someone mentioned that the italian national team is better than the english... if you read my posts you should have noticed i did mention that they are better as a group (a team) but on the individual talent england is better. In other words, if you are trying to enter the english squad its harder than entering the italian squad even if italy as a team plays better. Remember that there is no one single player that was on the UEFA team of the season from italy.

Further, An on form walcott is unstoppable.. he may be inconsistent but so is camo and they both get injured a lot. Walcott on form is better than camo on form IMO... he single handedly turns matches around with his incredible speed, pace and crosses. A reminder that he is very very young and still have so much to achieve and will get better with age.. experience is a huge aspect.

I may have exaggerated with valencia as it is his first year to shine. He is brilliant but we have to see him for 2 consecutive seasons at least to judge him properly. Sorry for this one. Lampard plays on the left sometimes but never a winger sorry for that one too (i am surprised from the guy that said camo was greater though ). Finally, my position mix ups i told you about before we started the argument in my first original post.


In conclusion, on camo VS. Young and Kuyt

Young: is better than camo and still has a lot of time ahead of him to win and already has more individual honors than camo. More Goals, More assists and more consistent. Young is more talented just needs some experience and is on the right path.


Kuyt: less talented than Camo however, he is amazingly consistent and never gets injured unlike camo. Therefore, camo has more talent but Kuyt is more useful. Lets not say someone is better as both have many +ve and -ve sides.



Agreed? :shy:

 

[Enron]

Bottom line, if the two don't play the same position you can't compare them. If they aren't the same type of player, you still can't compare them.

Now if you compared Camo to oh say Bentley or Joaquin, that's actually a fair comparison to make however your comparison turns out.

 

[Osman]

Thats a shit load of responses so i'll give a general reply as i am too lazy to quote each.

Camo and Kuyt are completely different. Even if both play in the same position.. rafa benitez uses Kuyt in building up play and adding pace to the game. He needs him as a constant menace regardless of whether he scored or not. Think of him the way Ferguson uses Park but way more productive and annoying.

Kuyt is less talented but more consistent and literally never gets injured. did i mention he was the dutch league's top scorer once?

Camo on form is better than kuyt but how often does camo play on form?
i think if we had kuyt he would give us more of his services as he never misses a game in all competitions and is amazingly consistent. Camo at his peak is probably better than Kuyt but his numerous injuries and inconsistency makes him less useful for the team.

SO .. we here have a talented player (camo) who is amazing on form but is injured most of the seasons and inconsistent.
against a less talented player that plays good (less than camo on form) but provides his service every match at an amazingly consistent rate and literally never gets injured.


ashley young is a super talented guy that scores and assists in huge amounts and is consistent (not kuyt consistent but still very consistent relatively to camo) He rarely gets injured and is still at the beginning of his career and still has a lot to fulfill.
Ashley young IS better than the current camo. We can also say an on form ashley young at this age is equivalent to an on form camo from the old days.
I am sorry guys but try avoiding your juve bias.. Young is the next big thing twice EPL PLAYER OF THE MONTH so far this year alone and still improving.


Someone mentioned that the italian national team is better than the english... if you read my posts you should have noticed i did mention that they are better as a group (a team) but on the individual talent england is better. In other words, if you are trying to enter the english squad its harder than entering the italian squad even if italy as a team plays better. Remember that there is no one single player that was on the UEFA team of the season from italy.

Further, An on form walcott is unstoppable.. he may be inconsistent but so is camo and they both get injured a lot. Walcott on form is better than camo on form IMO... he single handedly turns matches around with his incredible speed, pace and crosses. A reminder that he is very very young and still have so much to achieve and will get better with age.. experience is a huge aspect.

I may have exaggerated with valencia as it is his first year to shine. He is brilliant but we have to see him for 2 consecutive seasons at least to judge him properly. Sorry for this one. Lampard plays on the left sometimes but never a winger sorry for that one too (i am surprised from the guy that said camo was greater though ). Finally, my position mix ups i told you about before we started the argument in my first original post.


In conclusion, on camo VS. Young and Kuyt

Young: is better than camo and still has a lot of time ahead of him to win and already has more individual honors than camo. More Goals, More assists and more consistent. Young is more talented just needs some experience and is on the right path.


Kuyt: less talented than Camo however, he is amazingly consistent and never gets injured unlike camo. Therefore, camo has more talent but Kuyt is more useful. Lets not say someone is better as both have many +ve and -ve sides.



Agreed? :shy:

 

[Fred]

snake midget, its either you don't watch enough Arsenal, or you don't watch enough Juve?? Either way, i do not know how you can say Walcott is better than Camo, i really don't. As an Arsenal fan i wish i could be able to agree with you, but its not the case



Also the fact you rate Walcott as a good crosser of the ball makes me convinced that you do not really know the player. Walcott is an average crosser of the ball imo, his crosses rarely ever get to anyone, and rarely ever result in goals. His strength lies in his pace mostly, and to an extent his off the ball movement which he developed this season.

 

[Hist]

one last point, @ the guy with the statistics. Camo's honors are all team honors.
Burdisso has 3 scudetti but he is easily the worst player in the world lol.
Team honors count but individual honors reflect the player's abilities rather than his team's abilities. For example, messi will probably get all the team awards this year for barca. Players like abidal (who sucks) will have it as a team honor but his contribution is very little (i am not saying camo doesn't contribute!).
Messi will get all the individual awards because his capabilities are why barca where they are. Individual awards and nominations for Kuyt and Young are already better than camo.. Kuyt is 28 whilst young is still in the beginning of his career.
True there are players who go unnoticed like paul scholes from Man U but obviously those who get noticed are known and win because they are outstanding.
You cannot discredit the IFFHS, Oscars, ratings, Teams of the weak etc.
They may not be 100% accurate but still are an indicator.

 

[Osman]

Walcott problem has allways been end product, he would get past players, but then make Molinaro-esque crosses, or hold onto the ball, in general questionable decision making. Mainly previous seasons. This season, he has been more refined and direct in his approach, crossing hasnt improved much, but he does it when he should, and plays more mature. But yeah, crossing and him, not exacly a match.


Btw, that post was too frigging ridicolous for words, seriously. Can you be any more clueless and biased?

 

[Hist]

snake midget, its either you don't watch enough Arsenal, or you don't watch enough Juve?? Either way, i do not know how you can say Walcott is better than Camo, i really don't. As an Arsenal fan i wish i could be able to agree with you, but its not the case



Also the fact you rate Walcott as a good crosser of the ball makes me convinced that you do not really know the player. Walcott is an average crosser of the ball imo, his crosses rarely ever get to anyone, and rarely ever result in goals. His strength lies in his pace mostly, and to an extent his off the ball movement which he developed this season.

These things come with experience... walcott is still a little kid... thats why i added the word ON FORM walcott because he is not consistent.

we don't have to agree but atleast agree about the points i said about Young and kuyt?

 

[Fred]

These things come with experience... walcott is still a little kid... thats why i added the word ON FORM walcott because he is not consistent.

we don't have to agree but atleast agree about the points i said about Young and kuyt?

His decision making will probably improve with games and time on his side. something that does not come with time is talent, that is something Camo has in abundance, the same unfortunately cannot be said about Walcott.


I rate Young, but i do not think he's better than Camoranesi. The only thing i can agree with you on is, that Camoranesi is more injury prone than Kuyt actually.

 

[Hist]

and you say i am biased....
i give up..
Camo is the best player in the world.. better than messi

 

[Fred]

and you say i am biased....
i give up..
Camo is the best player in the world.. better than messi

where did i say you were biased? Why are you backing out of the argument.


If you ask me, it wouldn't make sense to say your biased against Camoranesi for the sole reason that your a Juve fan and Camo is a Juventus player, but i do think your brainwashed.