The Financial Situation (21 Viewers)

[Vlad]

I'm not telling you anything. I can't care for Forbes and have no reason to defend their valuation method. I just found your "They are American. Must be bullshit"-argument stupid, especially since you still haven't bothered finding out how they value sports teams.

I can't be bothered when it's obvious bs. Nothing to it. IrishZebra pointed out that they don't consider player as intangible assets so any kind of further discussion about their method is pointless.

That American part got you ha? Sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

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[Maddy]

I can't be bothered when it's obvious bs. Nothing to it. IrishZebra pointed out that they don't consider player as intangible assets so any kind of further discussion about their method is pointless.

But if it's obvious bullshit and you can't be bothered, then why did you even start calling them out for being American?

 

[Vlad]

But if it's obvious bullshit and you can't be bothered, then why did you even start calling them out for being American?

You don't have to be a financial genius to see connection between listed clubs and and Forbs. It looked highly improbable from my point of view that their clubs dominated the list in that sort of way.

 

[Zacheryah]

dear connoisseur

not to insult america, but they do have a tendency of doing that.

its brittish rejects after all :tongue:

 

[IrishZebra]

I think we can all agree that if the list had been done by a UK magazine, EPL clubs would take the top 20 spots.

 

[Vlad]

Agreed.

 

[Maddy]

dear connoisseur

not to insult america, but they do have a tendency of doing that.

its brittish rejects after all :tongue:

Only the Americans are biased? Please

 

[Bianconero81]

Let's not go there eh?

The Brits are quite biased too; Murray wins Wimbledon, they claim him as British. When he disappoints, he is just a Scot :yao:

 

[Zacheryah]

Only the Americans are biased? Please

Not only americans offcourse, they just are amongst them

I think we can all agree that if the list had been done by a UK magazine, EPL clubs would take the top 20 spots.

pretty much, with the next 10 comming from the first division

 

[JuveJay]

Let's not go there eh?

The Brits are quite biased too; Murray wins Wimbledon, they claim him as British. When he disappoints, he is just a Scot :yao:

Well, he is British and Scottish.

 

[Vialli_92]

Well, he is British and Scottish.

He is Scottish. Born in Scotland he has no connection to England. Just immagine England celebrating Scotland winning the World cup would they say Britain won the world cup hell no.

 

[JuveJay]

He is Scottish. Born in Scotland he has no connection to England. Just immagine England celebrating Scotland winning the World cup would they say Britain won the world cup hell no.

Who said anything about England? Just you.

 

[Boksic]

He is Scottish. Born in Scotland he has no connection to England. Just immagine England celebrating Scotland winning the World cup would they say Britain won the world cup hell no.

He is British and Scottish. His connection to England is that he is British, and is competing on the world stage in tennis as a Brit.

 

[Deep C]

Nothing useful in that link. It's maybe useful to the likes of you. I have more knowledge in this area then some link on internet provides.

oh god, keep going. I'm almost there.

- - - Updated - - -

He is Scottish. Born in Scotland he has no connection to England. Just immagine England celebrating Scotland winning the World cup would they say Britain won the world cup hell no.

Britain doesn't compete in "the World Cup".

 

[Vlad]

oh god, keep going. I'm almost there.

??

 

[Catenaccio]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45edmjk/1-real-madrid/

These numbers are highly questionable. I have no idea how they come up with these numbers. Real Madrid, Barca and Man U worth over US$3bln? haha I don't think so.

Who would pay that kind of money for a business that doesn't make money. They may make a profit from time to time, but over the cycle they are break-even value destroying businesses that relied on capital from their founders to keep prospering.

Take Juventus vs AC Milan. According to Forbes AC Milan is worth 990m. Juventus is not on the list, but the market capitalization fo Juventus is only 250-300m last time I checked. I believe Juventus is in better financial shape than AC Milan and has a fan base which is similar to better.

Being listed in this case, shows the true value of your business than some speculated number Forbes has come up with.

What I do know, is that in Europe, Juventus as of last financial year ranked 8th in terms of Revenue. I would curious how it ranks once this financial year's numbers come out. My gut feel is that we may go up a place or two.

By the way, it is true that the US ADRs for Manchester United are traded in New York and it shows up a market cap of US$2.8bln which respesents a current PE of 100x and forward PE of 50x. That is an extraordinarily high multiple but at least they do make money.

 

[Vlad]

These numbers are highly questionable. I have no idea how they come up with these numbers. Real Madrid, Barca and Man U worth over US$3bln? haha I don't think so.

Who would pay that kind of money for a business that doesn't make money. They may make a profit from time to time, but over the cycle they are break-even value destroying businesses that relied on capital from their founders to keep prospering.

Take Juventus vs AC Milan. According to Forbes AC Milan is worth 990m. Juventus is not on the list, but the market capitalization fo Juventus is only 250-300m last time I checked. I believe Juventus is in better financial shape than AC Milan and has a fan base which is similar to better.

Being listed in this case, shows the true value of your business than some speculated number Forbes has come up with.

What I do know, is that in Europe, Juventus as of last financial year ranked 8th in terms of Revenue. I would curious how it ranks once this financial year's numbers come out. My gut feel is that we may go up a place or two.

By the way, it is true that the US ADRs for Manchester United are traded in New York and it shows up a market cap of US$2.8bln which respesents a current PE of 100x and forward PE of 50x. That is an extraordinarily high multiple but at least they do make money.

Yes. Not that I believe conventional methods like marker cap or enterprise value are appropriate way of valuating football clubs but I see them definitely more useful than Forbes' vague calculations. One thing is certain it's very hard to determine proper value of the sport clubs as most methods out there neglect the biggest "asset" of any club and that's number of fans.

Juventus current market cap is around 190M. 1Bn of shares approximately X 0,191.
Enterprise value is more than 300M.

 

[Elvin]

how the fuck is Milan more valuable? We own a freaking stadium FFS!

 

[Vlad]

how the fuck is Milan more valuable? We own a freaking stadium FFS!

If you believe Forbes and their co called methods yes they are.
On the other hand I have no idea what Milan's market cap is as I don't know number of their outstanding share nor the market price of those. They aren't transparent as Juventus.

 

[Socrates]

how the fuck is Milan more valuable? We own a freaking stadium FFS!

They have Nocerino.