The Financial Situation (60 Viewers)

[Vlad]

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45edmjk/1-real-madrid/

Well exactly. Most of the teams on that list are American.
They ranked 6 their teams among top 10, 25 among top 30 and so on. It seems they think world begins and ends there. Never mind that hardly anyone apart from them watches NFL or baseball.

 

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[Maddy]

Well exactly. Most of the teams on that list are American.
They ranked 6 their teams among top 10, 25 among top 30 and so on. It seems they think world begins and ends there. Never mind that hardly anyone apart them watches NFL or baseball.

Instead of attacking Forbes for being American, why don't you research how they did their valuation and try to critique that instead of being an ignorant.

America is [still] the biggest market in the World. It would be natural for the biggest NFL teams (and other sports for that matter) to be worth a lot, especially since NFL has a global reach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets

 

[IrishZebra]

I doubt forbes analyse Football in Asia and Africa...

 

[Vlad]

Instead of attacking Forbes for being American, why don't you research how they did their valuation and try to critique that instead of being an ignorant.

America is [still] the biggest market in the World. It would be natural for the biggest NFL teams (and other sports for that matter) to be worth a lot, especially since NFL has a global reach.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets

What global reach? Most people in Asia or Europe don't care for either NFL or baseball. Having 25 American teams among 30 most valuable in the world doesn't seem like fair valuation.

And you can explain method they used if you're familiar with it. Whatever they used final results are way off of any objectivity on their part.

My guess would be:

1) Yearly income
2) Infrastructure ( stadium, training facilities...)
3) Players value
4) Global appeal
5) Tradition and history
...
Here is a link for you from the same source. Combined Real and Barcelona on social networks have more fans than NFL and baseball combined. Talking about global appeal some American clubs on previously mentioned list have under 1M fans.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/07/15/barcelona-and-real-madrid-rule-social-media/

 

[Elvin]

What global reach? Most people in Asia or Europe don't care for either NFL or baseball. Having 25 American teams among 30 most valuable in the world doesn't seem like fair valuation.

And you can explain method they used if you're familiar with it. Whatever they used final results are way off of any objectivity on their part.

My guess would be:

1) Yearly income
2) Infrastructure ( stadium, training facilities...)
3) Players value
4) Global appeal
5) Tradition and history
...

Chelsea

 

[IrishZebra]

NFL players have no value, as they can't be sold IIRC...

So their teams are worthless

 

[alexjuventino]

Both Isla and Melo look to be gone today. So its around 11.5 for both. So thats like 20m from 3 players not bad

 

[Maddy]

What global reach? Most people in Asia or Europe don't care for either NFL or baseball. Having 25 American teams among 30 most valuable in the world doesn't seem like fair valuation.

And you can explain method they used if you're familiar with it. Whatever they used final results are way off of any objectivity on their part.

My guess would be:

1) Yearly income
2) Infrastructure ( stadium, training facilities...)
3) Players value
4) Global appeal
5) Tradition and history
...
Here is a link for you from the same source. Combined Real and Barcelona on social networks have more fans than NFL and baseball combined. Talking about global appeal some American clubs on previously mentioned list have under 1M fans.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/07/15/barcelona-and-real-madrid-rule-social-media/

Take a look at this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuation_(finance)

Besides I have no need to justify Forbes' method of valuation. I didn't attack Forbes for being biased due to the magazine being American. You did. You are yet to deliver a substantial argument to why Forbes valuation method can't be accounted for. You totally neglected the fact that the American market is by far the biggest in the World, even though it's a clear indicator to why American sports teams are worth that much.

Being a sour puss because Juventus isn't on that list is pathetic and throwing "The American Card" is just plain stupid. Instead start by looking at Forbes valuation method and if you find something wrong with it, call that out.

 

[Vlad]

Take a look at this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuation_(finance)

Nothing useful in that link. It's maybe useful to the likes of you. I have more knowledge in this area then some link on internet provides.

Besides I have no need to justify Forbes' method of valuation. I didn't attack Forbes for being biased due to the magazine being American. You did. You are yet to deliver a substantial argument to why Forbes valuation method can't be accounted for. You totally neglected the fact that the American market is by far the biggest in the World, even though it's a clear indicator to why American sports teams are worth that much.

Being a sour puss because Juventus isn't on that list is pathetic and throwing "The American Card" is just plain stupid. Instead start by looking at Forbes valuation method and if you find something wrong with it, call that out.

Separately it is. Comparing it with Europe and Asia combined no it isn't.
http://www.1reservoir.com/awow-8788

Let me repeat this to you because it seems you didn't understand. Having 25 on the list of 30 most valuable clubs and again based on market share which you like to post over and over again would mean that American clubs have incredible amount of appeal around the globe. Average Asian or European kid would wear jersey of NFL or baseball players. People everywhere when talking about sports would predominately in their conversations discuss NFL or baseball etc... I don't see it happening. Do you?

USA have 28% share of total consumers market but yet their clubs are represented in more than 80% on Forbes list. Can you see the illogicality in this?

And no I don't care if Juventus is left out from this list. It's irrelevant.

Telling the difference between biased article and the one that actually uses correct perimeters in determining value is not that hard. You should try it sometimes.

Globally football/soccer is the most popular sport with 207M followers on social networks.
American football have 60M or 71% less followers in this comparison. You can see the clubs on #50 list and number of their followers. Some big discrepancy here.

 

[Badass J Elkann]

Both Isla and Melo look to be gone today. So its around 11.5 for both. So thats like 20m from 3 players not bad

Melo is getting loaned out to gala again ffs

 

[j0ker]

Melo is getting loaned out to gala again ffs

Check his thread, it will be a 3 year loan which is the same as selling him in and getting payed in three installments.

 

[alexjuventino]

Check his thread, it will be a 3 year loan which is the same as selling him in and getting payed in three installments.

How much are we getting?

 

[j0ker]

How much are we getting?

3 x 1.5 most probably.

 

[Maddy]

Nothing useful in that link. It's maybe useful to the likes of you. I have more knowledge in this area then some link on internet provides.


Separately it is. Comparing it with Europe and Asia combined no it isn't.
http://www.1reservoir.com/awow-8788

Let me repeat this to you because it seems you didn't understand. Having 25 on the list of 30 most valuable clubs and again based on market share which you like to post over and over again would mean that American clubs have incredible amount of appeal around the globe. Average Asian or European kid would wear jersey of NFL or baseball players. People everywhere when talking about sports would predominately in their conversations discuss NFL or baseball etc... I don't see it happening. Do you?

USA have 28% share of total consumers market but yet their clubs are represented in more than 80% on Forbes list. Can you see the illogicality in this?

And no I don't care if Juventus is left out from this list. It's irrelevant.

Telling the difference between biased article and the one that actually uses correct perimeters in determining value is not that hard. You should try it sometimes.

To the likes of me? That made me lol hard.

Besides you are still to give me an argument to why Forbes' list is incorrect. Again you attacked Forbes for being American while not presenting any argument to why the list is incorrect. So far the closest you have come to an argument against their valuation is your own gut feeling and your problem with American teams dominating the list. If you so knowledgeable on the subject. Show me some calculations.

Forbes have properly just liquidated all of the teams and clubs assets and that way established their value. Very simple.

 

[IrishZebra]

To the likes of me? That made me lol hard.

Besides you are still to give me an argument to why Forbes' list is incorrect. Again you attacked Forbes for being American while not presenting any argument to why the list is incorrect. So far the closest you have come to an argument against their valuation is your own gut feeling and your problem with American teams dominating the list. If you so knowledgeable on the subject. Show me some calculations.

Forbes have properly just liquidated all of the teams and clubs assets and that way established their value. Very simple.

NFL players cannot be sold for money can they? only traded? They therefore have an unquantifiable value. Can Tampa Bay pay 100million for Tom Brady?
You can liquidate what you can't sell.

 

[Maddy]

NFL players cannot be sold for money can they? only traded? They therefore have an unquantifiable value. Can Tampa Bay pay 100million for Tom Brady?
You can liquidate what you can't sell.

You don't think Forbes are aware of that?

 

[IrishZebra]

You don't think Forbes are aware of that?

http://www.forbes.com/teams/juventus/

Their valuation is split into segments none of which is the value of our players as assets...

They are clearly suffering from 'Times Education Rankings Sickness', where the Times rank Universities primarily by how HARD they are to get into, the Forbes list smacks of Revenue and Exposure but not including assets as players, probably because they are indeed american.

If Forbes say we are worth 700m without the squad, then we should be on that list, because our team would make that 1 Billion easy. Indeed, adding squad values to 'soccer' teams would mean US team are nowhere near the top 5.


So there you go, Forbes are clearly full of shit.

 

[Maddy]

http://www.forbes.com/teams/juventus/

Their valuation is split into segments none of which is the value of our players as assets...

They are clearly suffering from 'Times Education Rankings Sickness', where the Times rank Universities primarily by how HARD they are to get into, the Forbes list smacks of Revenue and Exposure but not including assets as players, probably because they are indeed american.

If Forbes say we are worth 700m without the squad, then we should be on that list, because our team would make that 1 Billion easy. Indeed, adding squad values to 'soccer' teams would mean US team are nowhere near the top 5.


So there you go, Forbes are clearly full of shit.

Well, you see. I haven't defended Forbes' valuation at any point. Why would I? I don't care. I've pointed out that you can't attack them simply for being American.

But you should rather find flaws in their valuation method. You did (apparently - haven't bothered checking) but DP84 never did.

 

[Vlad]

To the likes of me? That made me lol hard.

Besides you are still to give me an argument to why Forbes' list is incorrect. Again you attacked Forbes for being American while not presenting any argument to why the list is incorrect. So far the closest you have come to an argument against their valuation is your own gut feeling and your problem with American teams dominating the list. If you so knowledgeable on the subject. Show me some calculations.

Forbes have properly just liquidated all of the teams and clubs assets and that way established their value. Very simple.

You're telling me they basically used clubs balance sheets and compared their assets with players included? Of course they considered liabilities and nature of those?
Income statement was disregarded in this calculation?
What about goodwill which is determined mostly by global appeal in this case?
This is very simplified way of determining value. Not the best one.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.forbes.com/teams/juventus/

Their valuation is split into segments none of which is the value of our players as assets...

They are clearly suffering from 'Times Education Rankings Sickness', where the Times rank Universities primarily by how HARD they are to get into, the Forbes list smacks of Revenue and Exposure but not including assets as players, probably because they are indeed american.

If Forbes say we are worth 700m without the squad, then we should be on that list, because our team would make that 1 Billion easy. Indeed, adding squad values to 'soccer' teams would mean US team are nowhere near the top 5.


So there you go, Forbes are clearly full of shit.

Thanks for clearing this up. I wasn't far off calling them biased.

 

[Maddy]

You're telling me they basically used clubs balance sheets and compared their assets with players included? Of course they considered liabilities and nature of those?
Income statement was disregarded in this calculation?
What about goodwill which is determined mostly by global appeal in this case?
This is very simplified way of determining value. Not the best one.

I'm not telling you anything. I don't care for Forbes and have no reason to defend their valuation method. I just found your "They are American. Must be bullshit"-argument stupid, especially since you still haven't bothered finding out how they value sports teams.