Atlanta is building a new stadium that has a retractable roof that cuts off the upper deck and makes it only about 45k when its closed or they open it up to pack it out. That would have been cool for us to do
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The Financial Situation (32 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
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i was afraid this was the case...
it is already obvious that despute the annual increase in prices, the demand exceeds the tiny stadiums capacity.
This was a massive strategical mistake, that puts limits to our growth in the long term.
It is also teri bad for the fans that dont have seasons tickets and cannot afford the ultra expensive luxury tickets.
Whats worse, is for the international fans, who dont live in Italy and would live to visit Torino a d watch a derby.
It is nearly impossible to find a ticket for a derby, i just bought a new car and i was hoping to make a road trip to turin, but i guess i de have to postpone that indefinitly...
it is already obvious that despute the annual increase in prices, the demand exceeds the tiny stadiums capacity.
This was a massive strategical mistake, that puts limits to our growth in the long term.
It is also teri bad for the fans that dont have seasons tickets and cannot afford the ultra expensive luxury tickets.
Whats worse, is for the international fans, who dont live in Italy and would live to visit Torino a d watch a derby.
It is nearly impossible to find a ticket for a derby, i just bought a new car and i was hoping to make a road trip to turin, but i guess i de have to postpone that indefinitly...
We always had the most transparent and well managed financial, even since the triade, the Berlu owned media and Moratti owned FIGC were trying to find an excuse to halt our superiority on the field by such manners.
This was prooved during the calciopoli era, where justice was 1000% manipulated and yet they were unable to find anything.
However, we used to be efficient back then. Now, we lack common sense. I am not expecting us to find bargains like the Canna with Carini swap, but at least not being the club that is totally owned by each and every club and player manager.
We are paying the higher prices when we buy, making the lowest profits when we sell and instead of making money from the players we loan out, we lose money out from it...
We should not pay the ammounts we did for the Diegos, Melos, Amauris and Matris, but failing to et back even 50% of the investment we made was an epic failure.
When we had talents like Giovinco, sorensen and Immobile to loan out, we could secure great starters or the contracts of future prospects, now we are gifting away half of their contracts for peanuts and giving full price to get them back...
If Moggi had 200% efficiency, we now have less than 50%, thats why clubs like Napoli are closing the huuuuge gap that was among us.
They create money out of thin air with great profits from their Lavezzis and Cavanis and sign the Higuains we have been failing to sign for nearly a decade now...
At this rate not only we will fail to become a top club ever again, but we will be surclassed by clubs like Napoli and Galata...
We need to step up and if Marotta cant, then we need to hire someone better!
Its not like we face the same miserable situation we did, when we got him, we can find better alternatives now!
This was prooved during the calciopoli era, where justice was 1000% manipulated and yet they were unable to find anything.
However, we used to be efficient back then. Now, we lack common sense. I am not expecting us to find bargains like the Canna with Carini swap, but at least not being the club that is totally owned by each and every club and player manager.
We are paying the higher prices when we buy, making the lowest profits when we sell and instead of making money from the players we loan out, we lose money out from it...
We should not pay the ammounts we did for the Diegos, Melos, Amauris and Matris, but failing to et back even 50% of the investment we made was an epic failure.
When we had talents like Giovinco, sorensen and Immobile to loan out, we could secure great starters or the contracts of future prospects, now we are gifting away half of their contracts for peanuts and giving full price to get them back...
If Moggi had 200% efficiency, we now have less than 50%, thats why clubs like Napoli are closing the huuuuge gap that was among us.
They create money out of thin air with great profits from their Lavezzis and Cavanis and sign the Higuains we have been failing to sign for nearly a decade now...
At this rate not only we will fail to become a top club ever again, but we will be surclassed by clubs like Napoli and Galata...
We need to step up and if Marotta cant, then we need to hire someone better!
Its not like we face the same miserable situation we did, when we got him, we can find better alternatives now!
We made a downgrade from a 70k seat stadium to a 40k one.
The other Milan clubs have a 80k stadium, quite double! Even Fiorentina has a bigger stadium than us.
Big teams, have bigger stadiums, there is a trend to make them smaller though, in order to reduce the expenses, but 2 times smaller than our direct adversaries?
They have the potential to earn twice as much atm, they have the potential to grow bigger and expand even more.
They think big, they plan big, they achieve what big teams do.
This management, is thinking small, by the very first day they took over.
The stadium issue is just another decision/example.
We are trying (desperately) to present this fact in a positive light, but this wont change the facts.
And the fact is that we have a stadium of the capacity of a middle table team in serie A, we are consistently rank in mid table positions in serie A,
we are progressively cutting any ties we ever had with competitive football of the highest quality.
Every move we make, reflects the lack of ambitions, to grow bigger than a mid table team in Italy and become a European powerhouse, in the far far future.
We are now ages away from that and some things, that cannot be changed within a year, will be far more difficult to revert to our former situation, if we ever have a decent owner some time again...
The excuses of the atmosphere, are heard before and were succesfully applied to other small and middle table teams, in order to help their fans to diggest the lack of ambitions and crude reality, their onwers know, in contrast with the delusional hopes they are promoting to the fool fans.
But anyways facts are there to speak by themselves, the bigger the club is, the more widely spread its popularity is, the more needs it has to host its numerous fans.
The current stadium surely is fine for our current needs, i worry not for that, we are just a mid table team, not playing in Europe and a degrading former glory of Italian football.
What i m worried about is the future and the standards and limits we set, to our long terms goals and ambitions.
This stadium is built to last for decades and i hoped that sometime in the future we might host a cup final, a scudetto decider, a CL semi, etc
but it seems that this is not in the immediate plans of our current owners for the next decades and our fans, dont bother either...
The other Milan clubs have a 80k stadium, quite double! Even Fiorentina has a bigger stadium than us.
Big teams, have bigger stadiums, there is a trend to make them smaller though, in order to reduce the expenses, but 2 times smaller than our direct adversaries?
They have the potential to earn twice as much atm, they have the potential to grow bigger and expand even more.
They think big, they plan big, they achieve what big teams do.
This management, is thinking small, by the very first day they took over.
The stadium issue is just another decision/example.
We are trying (desperately) to present this fact in a positive light, but this wont change the facts.
And the fact is that we have a stadium of the capacity of a middle table team in serie A, we are consistently rank in mid table positions in serie A,
we are progressively cutting any ties we ever had with competitive football of the highest quality.
Every move we make, reflects the lack of ambitions, to grow bigger than a mid table team in Italy and become a European powerhouse, in the far far future.
We are now ages away from that and some things, that cannot be changed within a year, will be far more difficult to revert to our former situation, if we ever have a decent owner some time again...
The excuses of the atmosphere, are heard before and were succesfully applied to other small and middle table teams, in order to help their fans to diggest the lack of ambitions and crude reality, their onwers know, in contrast with the delusional hopes they are promoting to the fool fans.
But anyways facts are there to speak by themselves, the bigger the club is, the more widely spread its popularity is, the more needs it has to host its numerous fans.
The current stadium surely is fine for our current needs, i worry not for that, we are just a mid table team, not playing in Europe and a degrading former glory of Italian football.
What i m worried about is the future and the standards and limits we set, to our long terms goals and ambitions.
This stadium is built to last for decades and i hoped that sometime in the future we might host a cup final, a scudetto decider, a CL semi, etc
but it seems that this is not in the immediate plans of our current owners for the next decades and our fans, dont bother either...
60 would be nice, heck even 52 would do. A 40k tiny is ridiculous for a team with 10mil fans in Italy alone.
It is impossible to find a ticket for a decent match if you dont live in Turin.
As for the expansion its just rumors. Not even Man City with their unlimited funds cant expand their stadium that used to be 85k from 30k to 40k.
We will have a very tough time to expand it if we want to respect the current norms it is built upon
(the echological, solid infrastucture and ease of access for parking, stores etc)
We will pay at least 3 times the ammount we needed to make it a 50k just from the beginning.
Anyways, for the next 5 years, there wont be a change, the Agnellis need that time, to earn they invested money back,
we are not going to win any titles in this period of time, so we will probably not need the extra seats.
By the time the Agnellis decide to sell the club, after its fully drained of their milking procedure, i guess even a 30k will be enough...
And the new owner, will hopefully bring a new era and a new direction, were the club will start growing, rather than become weaker and smaller by the year, as it goes atm...
No one spoke of a 70k sits stadioum. Thtas almost double than we have and there is a lot of middle ground till there.
The ideal number for us would be about 50-55k seats. And again, right from the very first day, i m reffering to the strategic benefits, not the short term ones.
As i have been saying all along, in the long run we will regret having only 40k seats, not in the first couple of years.
If the stadioum had 10k seats more, it wouldnt make quite the diffence on the atmosphere. If we can full a 40k stadium with consistency, then it means that there is a need for at least 5000seats/game at least.
The soft spot imo, is to exceed, as slightly as you can, the maximum ammount you can get, even with 10k vacant seats, you have 4 ppl standing in every 5 seats,
that does not leaves the impression of a half empty stadium, on the contrary...
The stadium we had, due its built had horrible viewing angles, only by rebuilding it and removing the track, much more ppl would be attracted back anyways.
By playing beautifull footbal and becoming competitive again, by making it more accesible to families, more ppl would come.
By participating in high level matches like CL semis, cup semis and title decider matches, more ppl would come.
But now, by default, that ppl CANT come, simply because there is no place for them... and as we grow and have more fans again, the problem will increase along with the interest.
So you know what they will do? They will increase the price for the ticket, first for the good seats, then for the decent ones and inevitably all.
So with less investment they will make more profit, good for them. But when i will visit Italy and try to watch a derby, it will be much harder and more expensive for me to do it.
Eventually more ppl will be discouraged, so the common fan will be called to pay the extra bill. Juve's fanbase was always the worker common man, who cant afford the EPL high bill though...
And in the long long run, when the other teams build bigger modern stadiums, on par with ours, as architecture and facilities, but much more spacious, they will be able to make more tickets for the same ammounts of matches.
And create more profits and brute income, all the while keeping the common fan happy for giving him an affordable ticket and a quality of our current stadium.
What we do then? Rebuild a new one, or fall behind in income race?
This is when we will regret not making it a 50k seater and this is when ppl will understand to what i was reffering to...
When he made that choice AA made it with short vision, considering the current numbers he had at hand, the fog and parking issues, the tracks, the poor spectacle, lack of prestige/competitivity/spectacle etc
but Juventus is bigger than this, in the long run we would grow again a modern 70k seater, without track, new parking, facilities, better viewing angles etc, would be easier to fill in the derbies, than the old Delle Alpi and the average attendance would inevitably rise in the long run, esp after returning to top.
These elements were not in the equation back then, but they are now and will be more in the future, however the mistake is already made and its irreversable!
The ideal number for us would be about 50-55k seats. And again, right from the very first day, i m reffering to the strategic benefits, not the short term ones.
As i have been saying all along, in the long run we will regret having only 40k seats, not in the first couple of years.
If the stadioum had 10k seats more, it wouldnt make quite the diffence on the atmosphere. If we can full a 40k stadium with consistency, then it means that there is a need for at least 5000seats/game at least.
The soft spot imo, is to exceed, as slightly as you can, the maximum ammount you can get, even with 10k vacant seats, you have 4 ppl standing in every 5 seats,
that does not leaves the impression of a half empty stadium, on the contrary...
The stadium we had, due its built had horrible viewing angles, only by rebuilding it and removing the track, much more ppl would be attracted back anyways.
By playing beautifull footbal and becoming competitive again, by making it more accesible to families, more ppl would come.
By participating in high level matches like CL semis, cup semis and title decider matches, more ppl would come.
But now, by default, that ppl CANT come, simply because there is no place for them... and as we grow and have more fans again, the problem will increase along with the interest.
So you know what they will do? They will increase the price for the ticket, first for the good seats, then for the decent ones and inevitably all.
So with less investment they will make more profit, good for them. But when i will visit Italy and try to watch a derby, it will be much harder and more expensive for me to do it.
Eventually more ppl will be discouraged, so the common fan will be called to pay the extra bill. Juve's fanbase was always the worker common man, who cant afford the EPL high bill though...
And in the long long run, when the other teams build bigger modern stadiums, on par with ours, as architecture and facilities, but much more spacious, they will be able to make more tickets for the same ammounts of matches.
And create more profits and brute income, all the while keeping the common fan happy for giving him an affordable ticket and a quality of our current stadium.
What we do then? Rebuild a new one, or fall behind in income race?
This is when we will regret not making it a 50k seater and this is when ppl will understand to what i was reffering to...
When he made that choice AA made it with short vision, considering the current numbers he had at hand, the fog and parking issues, the tracks, the poor spectacle, lack of prestige/competitivity/spectacle etc
but Juventus is bigger than this, in the long run we would grow again a modern 70k seater, without track, new parking, facilities, better viewing angles etc, would be easier to fill in the derbies, than the old Delle Alpi and the average attendance would inevitably rise in the long run, esp after returning to top.
These elements were not in the equation back then, but they are now and will be more in the future, however the mistake is already made and its irreversable!
Anyway, In this forum, year after year, in each and almost every transfer window MArotta fails to sell our players and either releases them for free and keep on the bench collecting millions from Juve's tight salary cap plan,
or at best sell at 20-40% of ammount we gave to buy them.
This stands as his greatest weakness, we know that selling is his weakest point (esp after finding that LB) each and every year we discuss for months months as the transfer window goes by and we fail yet again to sell enough deadwood for decent income.
Countless of escuses were made, by his supporters and despite the fact that 90% cant stand anymore as we are keep winning the champion and our players are proved champions, wishfull thinking goes on and on and opportunity targets erase the huge holes made on our financial by Marotta's inability to sell.
And here come again articles with MArotta claiming we cannot keep anyone against his will, reffering to Pogba and Tevez.
PArticularly in Tevez's case the player has only one year left in his contract, which gives him special options to buy out the remaining time and leaves if he show pleases.
Considering MArotta's past and recent rumours, it seems that its entirely on Tevez shoulder;s to decide and he should take full credit for it and no Marotta.
Thats why i posted this:
"If he wants out, he will leave.
Players can buy their last contract year and Marotta is famous for releasing everyone for free and evaporating income..."
This happens each and every year, i wonder if the mod X ,never ever red any part of this thread during mercato.
This is repeated every time and yet he somehow he gave an infraction to me for that post, for trolling, considering that this cant be opinion and i do it to uppset others who worship MArotta.
He cosnidered that i care more about what MArotta's worhsippers felt, rather that what actually happens to Juve each and every year...
Like all those Iaquintas and Mottas never happened, like MArotta's inability to sell players or force them to stay and go was never discussed in here...
So you do understand when this happens again why i will stress it here enough to help X's sort memory issues...
or at best sell at 20-40% of ammount we gave to buy them.
This stands as his greatest weakness, we know that selling is his weakest point (esp after finding that LB) each and every year we discuss for months months as the transfer window goes by and we fail yet again to sell enough deadwood for decent income.
Countless of escuses were made, by his supporters and despite the fact that 90% cant stand anymore as we are keep winning the champion and our players are proved champions, wishfull thinking goes on and on and opportunity targets erase the huge holes made on our financial by Marotta's inability to sell.
And here come again articles with MArotta claiming we cannot keep anyone against his will, reffering to Pogba and Tevez.
PArticularly in Tevez's case the player has only one year left in his contract, which gives him special options to buy out the remaining time and leaves if he show pleases.
Considering MArotta's past and recent rumours, it seems that its entirely on Tevez shoulder;s to decide and he should take full credit for it and no Marotta.
Thats why i posted this:
"If he wants out, he will leave.
Players can buy their last contract year and Marotta is famous for releasing everyone for free and evaporating income..."
This happens each and every year, i wonder if the mod X ,never ever red any part of this thread during mercato.
This is repeated every time and yet he somehow he gave an infraction to me for that post, for trolling, considering that this cant be opinion and i do it to uppset others who worship MArotta.
He cosnidered that i care more about what MArotta's worhsippers felt, rather that what actually happens to Juve each and every year...
Like all those Iaquintas and Mottas never happened, like MArotta's inability to sell players or force them to stay and go was never discussed in here...
So you do understand when this happens again why i will stress it here enough to help X's sort memory issues...
Juventino[RUS];4975618 said:
Inflation in Italy is pretty low +0,24% 2014, -0,21% atm in 2015, you can't increase prices just because you want it
Yes you can increase prices just because you want and you can do it whenever you want.- - - Updated - - -
Juventino[RUS];4975618 said:
Inflation in Italy is pretty low +0,24% 2014, -0,21% atm in 2015, you can't increase prices just because you want it
Yes you can increase prices just because you want and you can do it whenever you want.
