The Doped Lady (3 Viewers)

Kaiser Franco · Dec 8, 2004

Ok then...

1) People in your neck of the woods might not be interested in Italian politics (maybe because of your insular status which generally makes you more indifferent to what happens "offshore" - your loss), but they certainly are here (Brussels, EU headquarters in primis) or elsewhere on the Continent. If they weren't, "der Spiegel" or "Le Monde" wouldn't be writing about it every other week and Fortune Magazine wouldn't have just voted Berlusconi the 4th most influential man in the world after Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch and someone else I forgot.

2) I don't support Berlusconi. I never voted for him and don't think I will next time either, unless the Left manages to fall even lower than it has so far, which is hard to imagine. YET I support Milan. Contradictory ? No, just common sense : anyone giving his vote to a man for reasons related to football (which unfortunately is the case of quite a few Italians but not Nick's I believe) needs his head examined.

3) Politics in Italy are a BIG deal, bigger than in most other European countries. I think we must be the only place where the two main public and private TV channels broadcast a (generally sterile) 2 hour long political debate every night. So each Italian has his "dietrologia" (his theory on the matter if you like). I am no exception to this rule, and having been raised in a family where the Christian Democrat uncle would not talk to his Communist mother-in law in the 2 weeks preceding an election, I've been immersed into it at a young age, and got interested.

But regardless, the point we are trying to make here is that if you are going to address the questions raised by the doping trial by bringing up Berlusconi's legal entanglements in his political career, you'll lose all credibility from the start.

Andy : you're right. I said what I had to say about 10 pages ago. Anyone wishing to say something about it can refer to it. :lazy:

Emma · Dec 8, 2004

Yeah if you stop wasting time trying to prove that someone made a silly point (which noone is even debating but you) and read the article maybe you will find the answer.

I said about people not caring because you just did and have many times called others stupid for not knowing about Berlusconi. For some of us in the grand scale of things he isnt jack shit so we dont care :cheesy: Ignorant maybe, stupid no.

How is my question irrelevent? You are a huge Berlusconi fan and a huge Milan fan. To me and probably everyone else that makes your support of him slightly questionable. Yet your the smart one.

Kaiser I wasnt referring to you so 2) and 3) I never said otherwise. 1) Yes exactly, he's irrelevent.

On topic: As for the doping trial. Now this is a pointless discussion. Every single Juve fan here knows the team take responsibility of there staffs actions. Everyone here probably knows that Juve cheated if not in a major way atleast in a small way, might not have made a huge difference, might not be enough to take back trophies but still they know it. Are they going to admit that here? No of course not. Imagine the reactions here had it been Man Utd that was in the same situation.

Same for Milan fans. Are they going to miss this opportunity to dance around on it and dramatise it so as to explain juves superiority? No.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 8, 2004

I thought River was the hairdresser and you were the University student??? Anyhoot…once again you miss the SINGLE MOST IMPORANT POINT HERE. I did not bring Berlusconi into this discussion. Nor did I want to. The topic was doping. Someone could not debate the facts so they do what individuals usually do when they cannot debate…take away attention from the issue. The fact your going on about ME and BERLUSCONI really makes no sense Emmz because “once again” I didn’t open up this can of worms.

Whats so hard to get? Stop defending the weak..let them fight their own battles.

Eaglesnake_1 · Dec 9, 2004

There is so much at stake with the doping juventus trial that the big bosses of CONI, FIGC, UEFA and FIFA are still weighting very carfully the position they will take in this case. Why??

Because, besides the fact that Juventus is as guilty as almost any other big european team of using banned substances, a whole lot of controversial facts will arise from a probable punishment decission, because it will create a precedent, that can be used in the future.
Then, the other big teams in Europe will be investigated ? Will it be retroactive, like in this case? It will be enough, that a rival team coach rise his hand and accuse a team ? Zeman admits, in his debate with Lippi, that he use creatine in Roma players, but "only for a short time"...???¡¡¡¡

WILL IT BE FAIR TO CONDAMN AND PUNISH JUVE WITHOUT DEMOSTRATING THAT OTHER TEAMS WERE NOT USING THE SAME DRUGS IN THAT YEARS???

Emma · Dec 9, 2004

Im not defending anyone. However you were defending Berlusconi. I guess you have no answer though and that speaks volumes

You've also again highlighted how talking out of your ass can divert any questions hehe well done.

Anyways go back to arguing the pointless.

Chxta · Dec 9, 2004

I'm bored of this thread.

Layce Erayce · Dec 9, 2004

thanks for picking up the soap for the weak, emma

Azzurri7 · Dec 9, 2004

Lets fight again

xziz · Dec 10, 2004

KEYSAR franc I do not know if you have seen this:

from: http://www.repubblica.it/2004/j/sezioni/politica/motismesuno/attelunga/attelunga.html

Oggi la sentenza di Milano. Domani, forse, quella del senatore
Ghedini, avvocato di Berlusconi: "Per il premier finirà bene".
Tra Sisme e caso Dell'Utri
La lunga attesa della Cdl
Today the sentence in Milan. Tomorrow, perhaps, the sentence of Senator Ghedini, Barlusconi's lawyer: "for the Prime Minister everything will be allright".
Between SISME (Secret Service abuse) and the Dell'Utri Case (Milan's president connection with Mafia). The long awaiting of the Milan's party (free translation of "House of Liberties", the right coalition"

di LUCA FAZZO

Silvio Berlusconi

MILANO - In una camera d'albergo milanese, lontano dai clamori e dalle telecamere del Palazzo di giustizia, si sta decidendo in queste ore la sorte dell'imputato Silvio Berlusconi: il giudice Francesco Castellano e le sue colleghe Stefania Abbate e Fabiana Mastrominico, circondati da quintali di carte, cercano la strada giusta tra le costruzioni dell'accusa e quelle della difesa, tra la tesi che vorrebbe Berlusconi al centro di una ragnatela di corruzione impressionante e quelle che lo vedono vittima di una manovra orchestrata a tavolino da potentati politici e magistrati ideologizzati per avvelenare la vita del paese. Mille chilometri più a sud, in una stanza del tribunale di Palermo, altri tre giudici si confrontano con carte ancora più complesse, e almeno altrettanto delicate: quelle che mettono Marcello Dell'Utri al centro della connection tra politica e Cosa Nostra. I giudici milanesi forse usciranno oggi dalla camera di consiglio.

In a Hotel room in Milan, far from the noise and the cameras of the courthouse, during this hours is beeing decided the faith of suspect Silvio Berlusconi: the judge Francesco Castellano and his collegues Stefania Abbate and Fabiana Mastrominico, surrounded by tons of paper, seek the right path between the construction of the Public Attorney and the construction of the defense. Between the thesis that sees Berlusconi as the center of an appalling corruption network and the thesis that sees the guy as the victim of a maneuvre organized by political interests and politically entangled judges, in order to poison the life of the country. One thousend kilometres South, in a room of Palermo courthouse, thre more judges clash with even more complex but equally sensistive documents. These papers put Marcello Dell'Utri at the center of the connection between politics and Cosa Nostra (in order for IncuboRossonero to understand, I would like to add the Cosa Nostra is another name for Mafia). The Milan judges may get to the sentence by today.

Quelli siciliani sicuramente andranno avanti almeno fino a sabato: 13 giorni di camera di consiglio. Nel frattempo, sul totosentenza, sull'impatto che le due decisioni - quella su Berlusconi, soprattutto - avranno sulla vita del paese si incrociano previsioni, accuse, polemiche.
The Sicilian judges will continue until Saturday: 13 days of recess to get to the ruling. In the meantime, forecasts and bets fly about the impact that the two sentences(in particular the one on Berlusconi) will have on the life of the country, including accusations and discussions.

I giudici milanesi si sono ritirati in camera di consiglio ieri mattina. Udienza lampo: Ilda Boccassini, come previsto, non ha chiesto di replicare. Per la Procura, il quadro d'accusa contro il capo del governo è tutto in quelle sette ore di requisitoria con cui il 12 novembre chiese la condanna del Cavaliere a otto anni di prigione. Castellano dichiara chiuso il processo.

Annuncia che la sentenza non arriverà in giornata, che si scivola ad oggi pomeriggio se non oltre. È una decisione, a quanto pare, più sofferta di quel che si prevedeva. Le opzioni sono semplici, in teoria: va deciso se Berlusconi sia colpevole dei due capi d'accusa - i soldi al giudice Squillante e quelli al giudice Verde - e se abbia diritto alle attenuanti che renderebbero prescritto il reato. Ma i passaggi per arrivare alla decisione sono complessi. E non è detto che l'ottimismo palpabile che circola negli ambienti vicini al premier (e un certo speculare pessimismo che si respira nell'altro fronte) siano del tutto giustificati.
Ma la maggioranza di governo sembra non prendere nemmeno in considerazione l'ipotesi di una condanna: "Berlusconi verrà assolto", dice il leghista Marco Cé, facendo propria la serenità ostentata ieri dall'imputato. È lo stesso difensore del premier, Nicolò Ghedini, a profetizzare d'altronde che "questa storia finirà bene". Nei settori della Casa delle libertà più attive nella polemica contro i pm, questa sicurezza si accoppia ad una nuova offensiva: che in realtà non riguarda Berlusconi ma Cesare Previti, e la sua condanna per una faccenda in cui il Cavaliere non c'entra nulla, cioè il processo Imi-Sir.

Fabrizio Cicchitto e altri parlano di "disegno politico" partendo da una decisione della Procura di Roma che si prepara a rinviare a giudizio, sempre per la vicenda Imi-Sir, un altro avvocato, il civilista romano Mario Are. Questa decisione dimostrerebbe due cose: che la competenza a indagare non era di Milano ma di Roma; e che la sentenza non sarebbe stata truccata da Previti ma da Are. Secondo la Procura milanese, invece, la responsabilità di Are e quella di Previti sono del tutto conciliabili.

Tra le opposizioni, il più esplicito nel chiedere che in caso di condanna di Berlusconi si vada alle dimissioni del governo e al voto anticipato è Marco Rizzo, dei Comunisti italiani. Antonio Di Pietro, in un'intervista all'Unità, afferma che da questo punto di vista anche un proscioglimento del premier per prescrizione del reato dovrebbe essere considerato alla stregua di una condanna. Ma il leader di Rifondazione Comunista Fausto Bertinotti invita la politica a fare un passo indietro: "le sentenze non vanno guardate dal buco della serratura della politica", dice, rifiutando di "fare illazioni" sull'esito del processo e sulle sue conseguenze.
Among oppositions, Marco Rizzo, of the Italian Comunists, asks more explicitly that if the Prime Minister be found guilty, the government resign and new election be called. Antonio di Pietro in an interview to L'Unita states that at this point, even a non guilty sentence because of decurrence of the terms for the crime should be considered as a guilty sentence. The leader of Communist Refoundation, Franco Bertinotti invites politics to take one step back: "sentences should not be pipe upon by politics", he says, refusing to make further comments of the trial and on the consequences.

xziz · Dec 10, 2004

I am glad you keep asking IncumboRossonero.

from: http://www.repubblica.it/2004/j/sezioni/politica/motismesuno/attelunga/attelunga.html

Oggi la sentenza di Milano. Domani, forse, quella del senatore
Ghedini, avvocato di Berlusconi: "Per il premier finirà bene".
Tra Sisme e caso Dell'Utri
La lunga attesa della Cdl
Today the sentence in Milan. Tomorrow, perhaps, the sentence of Senator Ghedini, Barlusconi's lawyer: "for the Prime Minister everything will be allright".
Between SISME (Secret Service abuse) and the Dell'Utri Case (Milan's president connection with Mafia). The long awaiting of the Milan's party (free translation of "House of Liberties", the right coalition"

di LUCA FAZZO

Silvio Berlusconi

MILANO - In una camera d'albergo milanese, lontano dai clamori e dalle telecamere del Palazzo di giustizia, si sta decidendo in queste ore la sorte dell'imputato Silvio Berlusconi: il giudice Francesco Castellano e le sue colleghe Stefania Abbate e Fabiana Mastrominico, circondati da quintali di carte, cercano la strada giusta tra le costruzioni dell'accusa e quelle della difesa, tra la tesi che vorrebbe Berlusconi al centro di una ragnatela di corruzione impressionante e quelle che lo vedono vittima di una manovra orchestrata a tavolino da potentati politici e magistrati ideologizzati per avvelenare la vita del paese. Mille chilometri più a sud, in una stanza del tribunale di Palermo, altri tre giudici si confrontano con carte ancora più complesse, e almeno altrettanto delicate: quelle che mettono Marcello Dell'Utri al centro della connection tra politica e Cosa Nostra. I giudici milanesi forse usciranno oggi dalla camera di consiglio.

In a Hotel room in Milan, far from the noise and the cameras of the courthouse, during this hours is beeing decided the faith of suspect Silvio Berlusconi: the judge Francesco Castellano and his collegues Stefania Abbate and Fabiana Mastrominico, surrounded by tons of paper, seek the right path between the construction of the Public Attorney and the construction of the defense. Between the thesis that sees Berlusconi as the center of an appalling corruption network and the thesis that sees the guy as the victim of a maneuvre organized by political interests and politically entangled judges, in order to poison the life of the country. One thousend kilometres South, in a room of Palermo courthouse, thre more judges clash with even more complex but equally sensistive documents. These papers put Marcello Dell'Utri at the center of the connection between politics and Cosa Nostra (in order for IncuboRossonero to understand, I would like to add the Cosa Nostra is another name for Mafia). The Milan judges may get to the sentence by today.

Quelli siciliani sicuramente andranno avanti almeno fino a sabato: 13 giorni di camera di consiglio. Nel frattempo, sul totosentenza, sull'impatto che le due decisioni - quella su Berlusconi, soprattutto - avranno sulla vita del paese si incrociano previsioni, accuse, polemiche.
The Sicilian judges will continue until Saturday: 13 days of recess to get to the ruling. In the meantime, forecasts and bets fly about the impact that the two sentences(in particular the one on Berlusconi) will have on the life of the country, including accusations and discussions.

I giudici milanesi si sono ritirati in camera di consiglio ieri mattina. Udienza lampo: Ilda Boccassini, come previsto, non ha chiesto di replicare. Per la Procura, il quadro d'accusa contro il capo del governo è tutto in quelle sette ore di requisitoria con cui il 12 novembre chiese la condanna del Cavaliere a otto anni di prigione. Castellano dichiara chiuso il processo.

Annuncia che la sentenza non arriverà in giornata, che si scivola ad oggi pomeriggio se non oltre. È una decisione, a quanto pare, più sofferta di quel che si prevedeva. Le opzioni sono semplici, in teoria: va deciso se Berlusconi sia colpevole dei due capi d'accusa - i soldi al giudice Squillante e quelli al giudice Verde - e se abbia diritto alle attenuanti che renderebbero prescritto il reato. Ma i passaggi per arrivare alla decisione sono complessi. E non è detto che l'ottimismo palpabile che circola negli ambienti vicini al premier (e un certo speculare pessimismo che si respira nell'altro fronte) siano del tutto giustificati.
Ma la maggioranza di governo sembra non prendere nemmeno in considerazione l'ipotesi di una condanna: "Berlusconi verrà assolto", dice il leghista Marco Cé, facendo propria la serenità ostentata ieri dall'imputato. È lo stesso difensore del premier, Nicolò Ghedini, a profetizzare d'altronde che "questa storia finirà bene". Nei settori della Casa delle libertà più attive nella polemica contro i pm, questa sicurezza si accoppia ad una nuova offensiva: che in realtà non riguarda Berlusconi ma Cesare Previti, e la sua condanna per una faccenda in cui il Cavaliere non c'entra nulla, cioè il processo Imi-Sir.

Fabrizio Cicchitto e altri parlano di "disegno politico" partendo da una decisione della Procura di Roma che si prepara a rinviare a giudizio, sempre per la vicenda Imi-Sir, un altro avvocato, il civilista romano Mario Are. Questa decisione dimostrerebbe due cose: che la competenza a indagare non era di Milano ma di Roma; e che la sentenza non sarebbe stata truccata da Previti ma da Are. Secondo la Procura milanese, invece, la responsabilità di Are e quella di Previti sono del tutto conciliabili.

Tra le opposizioni, il più esplicito nel chiedere che in caso di condanna di Berlusconi si vada alle dimissioni del governo e al voto anticipato è Marco Rizzo, dei Comunisti italiani. Antonio Di Pietro, in un'intervista all'Unità, afferma che da questo punto di vista anche un proscioglimento del premier per prescrizione del reato dovrebbe essere considerato alla stregua di una condanna. Ma il leader di Rifondazione Comunista Fausto Bertinotti invita la politica a fare un passo indietro: "le sentenze non vanno guardate dal buco della serratura della politica", dice, rifiutando di "fare illazioni" sull'esito del processo e sulle sue conseguenze.
Among oppositions, Marco Rizzo, of the Italian Comunists, asks more explicitly that if the Prime Minister be found guilty, the government resign and new election be called. Antonio di Pietro in an interview to L'Unita states that at this point, even a non guilty sentence because of decurrence of the terms for the crime should be considered as a guilty sentence. The leader of Communist Refoundation, Franco Bertinotti invites politics to take one step back: "sentences should not be pipe upon by politics", he says, refusing to make further comments of the trial and on the consequences.

xziz · Dec 10, 2004

IncuboBerlusconi, Let's say that more "he pulled out of his ass" I would rather paraphrase your words with "HE STUCK IT IN YOUR AZZ"

from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4084717.stm

Judges prepare Berlusconi verdict

Berlusconi is confident his position will not be weakened
Italy is awaiting the verdict in the long-running corruption trial of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.
Three judges in Milan are deliberating and the verdict may be announced later on Friday.

State prosecutors have demanded an eight-year jail term for Mr Berlusconi, who is accused of bribing judges in the 1980s to favour his business interests.

Mr Berlusconi, a billionaire, has vowed not to resign, and experts say the case could easily involve lengthy appeals.

The BBC's Tamsin Smith, in Rome, says Mr Berlusconi was smiling, talkative and decidedly upbeat at a book launch on Thursday, showing no signs of concern.

"I deserve a medal for enduring this trial," he told reporters.

Mr Berlusconi, Italy's first serving prime minister to be tried in a criminal court, denies the charges.

Legal wrangling

Italy's tortuous justice system means the appeal process often results in cases being shelved, our reporter says.

I have absolute serenity there won't be a sentence that would change today's political situation

Silvio Berlusconi

Berlusconi remains calm
But if Mr Berlusconi fails to get an acquittal, calls for him to step down are likely to multiply, causing a political storm on the domestic and international fronts, she says.

He says he is the victim of a politically-motivated judicial witch-hunt.

Summing up his defence, one of Mr Berlusconi's lawyers warned handing down a guilty verdict would irrevocably tarnish the country's name.

Mr Berlusconi, who has only attended court three times during the four-year legal process, does not face an immediate risk of jail as, under Italian law, two appeals are allowed before a sentence must be served.

The trial was suspended last summer after parliament passed a controversial law giving Mr Berlusconi immunity from prosecution.

The constitutional court later overturned the ruling.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 10, 2004

++ [ originally posted by xziz ] ++

IncuboBerlusconi, Let's say that more "he pulled out of his ass" I would rather paraphrase your words with "HE STUCK IT IN YOUR AZZ"

from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4084717.stm

Judges prepare Berlusconi verdict

Berlusconi is confident his position will not be weakened
Italy is awaiting the verdict in the long-running corruption trial of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.
Three judges in Milan are deliberating and the verdict may be announced later on Friday.

State prosecutors have demanded an eight-year jail term for Mr Berlusconi, who is accused of bribing judges in the 1980s to favour his business interests.

Mr Berlusconi, a billionaire, has vowed not to resign, and experts say the case could easily involve lengthy appeals.

The BBC's Tamsin Smith, in Rome, says Mr Berlusconi was smiling, talkative and decidedly upbeat at a book launch on Thursday, showing no signs of concern.

"I deserve a medal for enduring this trial," he told reporters.

Mr Berlusconi, Italy's first serving prime minister to be tried in a criminal court, denies the charges.

Legal wrangling

Italy's tortuous justice system means the appeal process often results in cases being shelved, our reporter says.

I have absolute serenity there won't be a sentence that would change today's political situation

Silvio Berlusconi

Berlusconi remains calm
But if Mr Berlusconi fails to get an acquittal, calls for him to step down are likely to multiply, causing a political storm on the domestic and international fronts, she says.

He says he is the victim of a politically-motivated judicial witch-hunt.

Summing up his defence, one of Mr Berlusconi's lawyers warned handing down a guilty verdict would irrevocably tarnish the country's name.

Mr Berlusconi, who has only attended court three times during the four-year legal process, does not face an immediate risk of jail as, under Italian law, two appeals are allowed before a sentence must be served.

The trial was suspended last summer after parliament passed a controversial law giving Mr Berlusconi immunity from prosecution.

The constitutional court later overturned the ruling.

still WAITING for YOU to show me HOW Television and PUblishing ventures=Mob Money.

All you are attempting to prove (by copy and pasting newspaper articles) is that he is involved in a corruption scandal (much like Hillary Rodham Clinton, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John F Kennedy and so on). The question is simple...

Where is the evidence of this MOB MONEY you speak of when he owns massive media outlets.

xziz · Dec 10, 2004

NightmareBerlusconi, I am reposting this, to see if this answers your question.

"One thousend kilometres South, in a room of Palermo courthouse, three more judges clash with even more complex but equally sensistive documents. These papers put Marcello Dell'Utri at the center of the connection between politics and Cosa Nostra (in order for IncuboRossonero to understand, I would like to add the Cosa Nostra is another name for Mafia). "

Cronios · Dec 10, 2004

nice job xziz, doing great work all the time!!!
dont bother reposting, some people refuse to understand and admit some things,
thats why people like berlusconi manage to gather such vast power=control, unjustified for a country with democratic constitution,
there is never a balance when a man, can practically do whatever he wishes.
no balance=minimum control,
NoONE controls him, there is no justice, only his justice,
its that simple,
u can deny his guilty but u cant deny his power,
its too obvius,
many people were acussed for much less,
perpetrate NOTHING and being condemned,
berlu IS TOO powerfull to be condemned,
for now,
his time will come, some time.
but untill then he has the suprime power to protect his interests
and convince with his side many people(he has the tv media means to do that) ,
now to continue with our thread;
the supreme, idolised from some for his power berlu is among others the president of a football club, his interests represents the interests of his club
and what a strange coincident his main adversary club who tryed with so many ways to defeat, as he could, is now accused by the berlus justice!
not his club, or fellow a club, or even an indiferent one,
but the right one, who could have thought that?!!
im not saying berlu started it,
but our innocence counts double considering the circumstances.

xziz · Dec 10, 2004

thanks, grecul :cheesy:

Maresca · Dec 10, 2004

++ [ originally posted by IncuboRossonero ] ++

You stated Berlusconi buys players with MAFIA MONEY.

I STATED that this has nothing to do with Juve's DOPING TRIAL and more importantly to DEMONSTRATE HOW television stations and publishing companies can be classified as MAFIA MONEY.
YOUR REPLY: YOU POST AN ARTICLE WHICH STATES THAT BERLUCSCONI IS NOT FIT TO GOVERN ITALY.

What in the world does the fact that he cannot govern Italy as the proper Prime Minister have to do with ItaliaUno, ReteQuattro, (tv stations) and Publishing companies being Mafia Money?!
Next time you want to have a debate with me THINK AND REASON because NONE OF THE TWO are being attempted here.

I'm still shaking my head over this:

Q: Show me how Television stations and Publishing companies are MAFIA MONEY.

Answer: Article on HOW he is not a good Prime Minister/Leader.

What is even more amazing is the sheer stupidity of some of you in here that actually applauded this post which made no sense whatsoever. You call Kaiser PRO-MILAN...What the hell does that make you? SOmeone makes a reasoning that is borderline childish and you all nod in unison like brainwashed pigeons.

:wallbang:

Berlusconi is a diktator.. he just says that he wants allways 2 Strikers up front.. the coach must decide this and not the "President"(that remembers me of perugia)
even in Germany, the people think that berlesconi is not the clearst poliktiker....

IncuboRossonero · Dec 10, 2004

Where in your absolutely HORRIBLE translation does it say that he made his money NOT from a media empire but from taking bets at the local sports bars and pushing herion trafficing...since you allege his money is mafia money. What exactly are you describing as mafia money.

IncuboRossonero · Dec 10, 2004

++ [ originally posted by grecul ] ++
nice job xziz, doing great work all the time!!!
dont bother reposting, some people refuse to understand and admit some things,
thats why people like berlusconi manage to gather such vast power=control, unjustified for a country with democratic constitution,
there is never a balance when a man, can practically do whatever he wishes.
no balance=minimum control,
NoONE controls him, there is no justice, only his justice,
its that simple,
u can deny his guilty but u cant deny his power,
its too obvius,
many people were acussed for much less,
perpetrate NOTHING and being condemned,
berlu IS TOO powerfull to be condemned,
for now,
his time will come, some time.
but untill then he has the suprime power to protect his interests
and convince with his side many people(he has the tv media means to do that) ,
now to continue with our thread;
the supreme, idolised from some for his power berlu is among others the president of a football club, his interests represents the interests of his club
and what a strange coincident his main adversary club who tryed with so many ways to defeat, as he could, is now accused by the berlus justice!
not his club, or fellow a club, or even an indiferent one,
but the right one, who could have thought that?!!
im not saying berlu started it,
but our innocence counts double considering the circumstances.

in your RIGHTEOUS post I want you to explain what exactly Berlusconi did to be labeled so bad.

And don't google it..
I want to hear YOUR WORDS

you have a strong distaste for him...tell me why.

The Pado · Dec 10, 2004

To accomplish everything Berlusca has in his professional life, I am sure he has had to enter into contracts and deals with Mafia-run businesses. But, this alone does not make Berlusca a crook. Having to deal with mafia is a fact of life in Italy's South, and many times you don't even know you are dealing with Mafia. It's not like they hang a sign.

The Pado · Dec 10, 2004

Since everyone is quoting other sources, I will quote Italy's finest export, Libero:
"In Italy we don't punish our criminals, we elect them."

Thanks Libero.

The Doped Lady (3 Viewers)

Buzzurri7

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Juventolog

Senior Member

Senior Member

Inferiority complex

Inferiority complex

Filthy Gobbo

Filthy Gobbo

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