Tactics and Formations (10 Viewers)

rakib567

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2013
10,077
If we keep pirlo (which we should) then we need to play 4-3-3 and that means tevez needs to play on the wing or llorente should be benched. i would temporarely switch to a 4-3-2-1 with tevez and vucic behind llorente then in the summer invest heavily of wingers and a leftback.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Pirlo's Beard

Junkie Joe Joyce
Oct 2, 2013
11,220
To put it simply, we can't play Tevez and Llorente AND Pirlo without either

A) Tevez getting shifted out wide

B) Building for a 4-3-1-2, which doesn't help our width issue at all. And could end up getting exposed like the 3-5-2.
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
With this current squad I think our best bet is a 4-3-1-2. For us to play a 4-2-3-1 we need two wingers. For a 4-3-3 we have to play tevez out of position. Idk honestly I dont see a way to possibly switch formations without spending at least 30m+. Also I dont see what players currently out there can improve our team without us spending a good chunk of money
 

rakib567

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2013
10,077
The best thing is to do is to switch between the 2 options when needed. if we want to rest pirlo then we would use a 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 with wingers which we are going to hopefully get in the summer. if we want pirlo we would play 4-3-3 with tevez or llorente upfront. any wingers we are linked with?
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
I think we should go for a 4-3-3 .

So Juve would line up somehting like

-------------------------Buffon
Licht-----------Barz--------------Chiellini-----------lb
------vidal-------------pogba--------------marchisio
Menez/RW---------------Llorente----------------Tevez


So It would look like this on paper however Tevez and Llorente would push play more centrally while Menez or the rw would stay wide to provide the width. Marchisio and the left back would push further and the lb would act as a lwb so then licht-barz-chiellini would essientially play as a back three.

---------------------------Buffon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- - -- - - -- - - - -- - --
----------Licht--------------Barz--------------Chiellini-
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- - -- - - -- - - - -- - --- - - -
-------vidal---------------pogba---------------------lb
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -- - -- - - -- - - - -- - ---marchisio
Menez/RW----------Llorente-----Tevez


This is an idea I had. Not sure if it would work because then it would force both vidal and marchisio wide but I feel like conte would do something like that
 

rakib567

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2013
10,077
ina 4-3-3 if the wingers push centrally then the wingbacks have to widely and the defensive midfielder has to join with the central defence to join a 3 man defence. so like barca do it:


Valdes
Alves Pique Puiol Alba
Xavi Busquets Inesta
Sanchez Messi Neymar

Valdes
Pique Busquets Puiol
Alves Xavi Inesta Alba
Sanchez Messi Neymar​
 

Vialli_92

Senior Member
Mar 7, 2013
6,498
The problem is with 5-3-2 we have an extra player in defence. Now if we play 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2 we have that extra attacker which is the difference between us dropping deep and letting them attack us. Instead we would be pushed more up the pitch and wouldn't have to drop se deep.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,252
The problem is with 5-3-2 we have an extra player in defence. Now if we play 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2 we have that extra attacker which is the difference between us dropping deep and letting them attack us. Instead we would be pushed more up the pitch and wouldn't have to drop se deep.
You can call it 5-3-2 all you like but you can see from positions on the field that we only play with 5 defenders for a small period of time. Most of our time is spent with the ball or pressing higher to win the ball around the half way line, so it is indeed a 3-5-2.

The benefits of this formation are in the field spacings and combinations across midfield from one touchline to the other, and from the sweeper to the classical 'tall' striker. Many variations. As we have a very strong CM it works very well, we can press and combine and overrun almost all teams.

Now go back to this bugbear issue that people still have with our wing backs. I think is the single most identified thing. Note these are wing backs and not wingers, I repeat this because I still see people confusing the two. Ideally it's 50% defensive-offensive balanced. As we often have the ball we are more towards 40-60% in favour of offense. You need players of high stamina there, we have that. Our problem is that essentially we have a LCM on one side, and a DR on the other. Because they are the only players we have at the extremes of the pitch they are easier to identify and isolate directly from a defensive point of view. More often than not it's not about them taking their man on directly, that is not vital for the role. The combinations remove that as a necessity. They are NOT wingers with a midfielder or full back to cover them. So they will take low risk choices to retain the ball until it comes into a better position. The main issue we have here is that when the ball then does come to them in good areas both Asamoah and Lichtsteiner are mediocre crossers, so they often resort to a give and go or attempt to charge inside their counterpart. Essentially if both or either were just that bit better at it, with Llorente in the centre, there would be essentially no issue but for the aesthetical preferences of individuals.

Our formation also means we are one of the few CL clubs who play two real strikers together, those with a defined role directly against the central defenders. Now we have two good strikers combining you can see the benefit this brings in causing confusion in opposition defences, rather than having one target to focus on in that area. Played correctly this eliminates the infatuation with having an 'extra attacker' in a wide area, more often than not a pacey or skillful player, such is often the desire these days for style with substance.
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
31,783
nice post but it means nothing when we face a team with good fast wingers who can wreck the formation.

which happens to be most the teams in CL

Therefore your argument is strwaman
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,252
There isn't a formation where there isn't some risk from a conflicting formation or specific threat.

With 4-3-3 you actually lose a defensive player for a wide threat for much of the time, if we are just focusing on dangerous wingers. You are counting on a central player from the three pushing wide, because the wide forward often has no interest. You have a fullback there to directly counter the threat, but often they will be isolated.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,606
You can call it 5-3-2 all you like but you can see from positions on the field that we only play with 5 defenders for a small period of time. Most of our time is spent with the ball or pressing higher to win the ball around the half way line, so it is indeed a 3-5-2.
Massively depends on the opponent. Stronger the opponent, the more time we'll be forced to defend ourselves and breaking from that proved to be more difficult than we thought. In longer spells both WBs are pinned back. Now I hope with Lorente that we've solved that issue, as he might hold the ball better, enabling our wide players to make a transition. There's of course issue of effectiveness since by the time both Licht and Asamoah arrive in the final 3rd, opposition's defense is likely to be organized. Only thing left is to test it vs strong European side, but it seems that Conte is not in favor of that idea. From his interviews you could see that he'll probably play 4-3-3 or better to call it 4-5-1 against tougher opponents. I personally can't wait for this whole 3-5-2 to be over with.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,252
Massively depends on the opponent. Stronger the opponent, the more time we'll be forced to defend ourselves and breaking from that proved to be more difficult than we thought. In longer spells both WBs are pinned back. Now I hope with Lorente that we've solved that issue, as he might hold the ball better, enabling our wide players to make a transition. Only thing left is to test it vs strong European side, but it seems that Conte is not in favor of that idea. From his interviews you could see that he'll probably play 4-3-3 or better to call it 4-5-1 against tougher opponents. I personally can't wait for this whole 3-5-2 to be over with.
With more quality in the wide attack positions I'd have no problems, but it's not a magical formation, you have to play it correctly and identify the flaws. I understand the reference to it for the CL, but I think we have bigger mental issues there than can be put down to formations.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,606
There isn't a formation where there isn't some risk from a conflicting formation or specific threat.

With 4-3-3 you actually lose a defensive player for a wide threat for much of the time, if we are just focusing on dangerous wingers. You are counting on a central player from the three pushing wide, because the wide forward often has no interest. You have a fullback there to directly counter the threat, but often they will be isolated.
With 4-3-3 you double the flanks, midfielders are more b2b, rather than playing wide if we're talking about pure wingers occupying 2 wide positions. In fact our midfielders push wide more in 3-5-2.
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
31,783
not to mention it would suit of fullbacks overlapping instead of them having to directly take on 1-2 players each time

also i hate how 3-5-2 forces vidal and pogba out wide so much. with pogba it's not such a big issue because he's a good dribbler and can oull a magic pass often, but vidal has proven himself deadly in the box.
 

JuveJay

Senior Signor
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007
72,252
with 4-3-3 you double the flanks, midfielders are more b2b, rather than playing wide if we're talking about pure wingers occupying 2 wide positions. In fact our midfielders push wide more in 3-5-2.
Lion was talking about defensive risk, which I replied in part to. It's a two sided coin just the same.

In the end we're just going back to the offensive side of the game, which of course people are more interested in. But the proof will be there when we try it at an elite level.
 

Vlad

In Allegri We Trust
May 23, 2011
22,606
not to mention it would suit of fullbacks overlapping instead of them having to directly take on 1-2 players each time

also i hate how 3-5-2 forces vidal and pogba out wide so much. with pogba it's not such a big issue because he's a good dribbler and can oull a magic pass often, but vidal has proven himself deadly in the box.
Especially since both our WBs are rather average in the final 3rd and their deficiencies are even more emphasized. I don't expect them to be fantastic dribblers, but ffs some decent cross from time to time wouldn't harm us. Cacares seems to be the only one able to provide us with that, but then again he isn't natural WB; lacks pace and skills. Marcelo on the other hand. :tuttosport: But other issues will still remain with that tactical setup. We simply need to move on from that. It had its uses, but nothing can be a definite solution; just another phase the way I see it.
 

Lion

King of Tuz
Jan 24, 2007
31,783
I don't think any of us would have issues with the formation had isla been the player we were all hoping him to be.

3-5-2 needs wide player who can take on his man and cross. doesn't have to be both of them, just one will do.

preferably a leftie as i think litch is fine on right.

More than anything a wingback has to marotta's priority for summer. I don't think conte is interested in buying wingers for a formation he might use for a 6-10 games a year
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 8)