Tactics and Formations (24 Viewers)

[JuveJay]

I don't think any of us would have issues with the formation had isla been the player we were all hoping him to be.

3-5-2 needs wide player who can take on his man and cross. doesn't have to be both of them, just one will do.

preferably a leftie as i think litch is fine on right.

More than anything a wingback has to marotta's priority for summer. I don't think conte is interested in buying wingers for a formation he might use for a 6-10 games a year

I quite like Lulic, although he's not perfect.

 

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[LiquidPLP]

I don't think any of us would have issues with the formation had isla been the player we were all hoping him to be.

3-5-2 needs wide player who can take on his man and cross. doesn't have to be both of them, just one will do.

preferably a leftie as i think litch is fine on right.

More than anything a wingback has to marotta's priority for summer. I don't think conte is interested in buying wingers for a formation he might use for a 6-10 games a year

I wouldn't be so sure if I were you. Conte admitted he'd like to play 424 like a few days ago. I think he feels he can't do it because of Pirlo who can't play in 4- man midfield as cm and lack of wingers.

 

[Red]

nice post but it means nothing when we face a team with good fast wingers who can wreck the formation.

which happens to be most the teams in CL

Therefore your argument is strwaman

Massively depends on the opponent. Stronger the opponent, the more time we'll be forced to defend ourselves and breaking from that proved to be more difficult than we thought. In longer spells both WBs are pinned back. Now I hope with Lorente that we've solved that issue, as he might hold the ball better, enabling our wide players to make a transition. There's of course issue of effectiveness since by the time both Licht and Asamoah arrive in the final 3rd, opposition's defense is likely to be organized. Only thing left is to test it vs strong European side, but it seems that Conte is not in favor of that idea. From his interviews you could see that he'll probably play 4-3-3 or better to call it 4-5-1 against tougher opponents. I personally can't wait for this whole 3-5-2 to be over with.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Juve changed from 3-5-2 to 4-3-3 for the games against Real Madrid?

As things stand, I'm inclined to believe that Conte, after the Bayern games, has accepted the difficulties of playing the 3-5-2 against a strong team with good wingers and has adjusted things appropriately.

 

[Lion]

4-3-3 would be much more useful with a fit pepe and vucinic instead of tevez and marchisio, so yeah.

 

[Red]

That Conte went to 4-3-3 despite not having players who are really suited to it just goes to show how determined he was go 4-3-3 against Real, I'd say.

 

[zizinho]

433 is much easier for us to play than 4231 and 424 since our players are much more used to it than the other two + its better defensively which is very important

 

[Vialli_92]

You can call it 5-3-2 all you like but you can see from positions on the field that we only play with 5 defenders for a small period of time. Most of our time is spent with the ball or pressing higher to win the ball around the half way line, so it is indeed a 3-5-2.

The benefits of this formation are in the field spacings and combinations across midfield from one touchline to the other, and from the sweeper to the classical 'tall' striker. Many variations. As we have a very strong CM it works very well, we can press and combine and overrun almost all teams.

Now go back to this bugbear issue that people still have with our wing backs. I think is the single most identified thing. Note these are wing backs and not wingers, I repeat this because I still see people confusing the two. Ideally it's 50% defensive-offensive balanced. As we often have the ball we are more towards 40-60% in favour of offense. You need players of high stamina there, we have that. Our problem is that essentially we have a LCM on one side, and a DR on the other. Because they are the only players we have at the extremes of the pitch they are easier to identify and isolate directly from a defensive point of view. More often than not it's not about them taking their man on directly, that is not vital for the role. The combinations remove that as a necessity. They are NOT wingers with a midfielder or full back to cover them. So they will take low risk choices to retain the ball until it comes into a better position. The main issue we have here is that when the ball then does come to them in good areas both Asamoah and Lichtsteiner are mediocre crossers, so they often resort to a give and go or attempt to charge inside their counterpart. Essentially if both or either were just that bit better at it, with Llorente in the centre, there would be essentially no issue but for the aesthetical preferences of individuals.

Our formation also means we are one of the few CL clubs who play two real strikers together, those with a defined role directly against the central defenders. Now we have two good strikers combining you can see the benefit this brings in causing confusion in opposition defences, rather than having one target to focus on in that area. Played correctly this eliminates the infatuation with having an 'extra attacker' in a wide area, more often than not a pacey or skillful player, such is often the desire these days for style with substance.

Ye u have a point, keep in mind that formation is against inferior teams 95% of the time. You seen what happened against Bayern and Conte knew if he did a 5-3-2 against Madrid we would have no chance of getting a result. Our backs would have been against the wall the whole time with the team dropping deep and trying to soak up the pressure. U seen the performance last night we created very very little. That extra defender is just not needed, it doesn't help u win the game at all because u give yourself a handicap going forward. I still think he should play 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2 since we dont have the wide players to play a 4-3-3 now.

I have said it before i never liked the Tevez signing. He's a really good player but with Tevez u are forced to play 2 strikers. We lack width so much and he just was not needed imo as we have a few SS already. A centre forward to compete with Llorente would have been much better, A winger would have been even better than that. How will Conte play a 4-3-3 with Tevez in the team other than putting him out wide which is not really what we need. A player like Ljaicic who can play out wide or Striker would have been a better signing imo.

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Yeah the fact that Tevez seemingly demands to play centrally is a problem. The only way we should go about it is playing a 4-2-3-1 and dropping one of our world class midfielders (Not gonna happen) or dropping Llorente and playing a 4-3-3


Problem is, Llorente offers us something that Tevez obviously can not. Llorentes size and playing style makes him ideal as a lone striker. Tevez... not so much.

 

[Mr Chocolate]

Yeah the fact that Tevez seemingly demands to play centrally is a problem. The only way we should go about it is playing a 4-2-3-1 and dropping one of our world class midfielders (Not gonna happen) or dropping Llorente and playing a 4-3-3


Problem is, Llorente offers us something that Tevez obviously can not. Llorentes size and playing style makes him ideal as a lone striker. Tevez... not so much.

licht------bara------Chiellini-----Left back

---------Vidal--------------Pogba/marchisio------
----winger------Tevez--------Winger----------
---------------Llorente-------------------

 

[Pirlo's Beard]

Like I said, 4-2-3-1 isn't an option with Pirlo around. Our best department is our midfield. Benching 2 Top Class players to accomodate Tevez in his favourite role is madness.

 

[Zacheryah]

Realism points to the fact that soon pirlo will reture, and we have several high class cm's, and no worthy offensive wingers.

with a playmaker in front of them, we could totally field pogba, marchisio and vidal behind that, giving a very aggressive yet impossible to break down midfield, coupled with out excellent fullback options as was shown against ronaldo and bale, possibly the best wingers of the moment. They had nothing.

going 4312 keeps this thing going. We showed that asamoah or ogbonna or chiellini could perfectly play the leftback, whilst lichtsteiner and now recently caceres had monstreous games on the right back.

Marchisio mending the solid shape of the formation, with vidal and pogba beeing aggressive and pressive makes a truely impossible to break down midfield

Whilst tevez and llorente have shown many good things when paired up front.



How many players are lacking here ?

1, central attacking midfielder with high intelligence, good technique and good in combinations.

One player, really.



Face it. this is far better and realistic then these "allright guyse, lets buy 2 world class wingers we cant afford, and attacking yet defensively solid fullbacks that dont exist, and pretent tevez is eighter a midfielder (hell no) or a winger (seriously, no)

Its amusing some put questionable mediocre crap like menez in their formation just to get their formation done. Doesnt work like that, you build the formation around the players, not otherwise (unless you are coach at psg or city, and even then the oilsheijk only gives you creative strikers really)

 

[napoleonic]

even barca doesn't have wc wingers, so the point is moot, unless you believe juve can't even afford some good enough wingers.

 

[Zacheryah]

even barca doesn't have wc wingers, so the point is moot, unless you believe juve can't even afford some good enough wingers.

You dont understand the point of live.

Barcelona is a team with gigantic creativity. Their attack originates from the center of the field combining, wilst the wings are mainly used to stretch the play, but not really creating danger. They want fast, players there, and thats it. Pedro, Iniesta(waste to play him there tho) and sanchez are excellent for that.
Why would they need wings ? to cross it to messi.

Nope, they stretch the play, creating channels for the cm's to move in, attempting trough balls to the forward(s)

Their creatvity is abundand, and their defence basically is the pressing game.


Juventus on the other hand, has much less creativity. The creativity it has, need to be of high class. Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba, our flanks, thats not really creativity. They can make personal actions, but not really create openings.
Tevez and Pirlo however, can. They draw players onto them, and attempt to crack a defence, allowing space for others or assisting/key passing in that space for a goal.

If we take away pirlo, our team is nearly deprived of its creativity. Basically there is tevez, and pogba lobbed passes. That is not enough.

IF you add wingers and remove pirlo, the wingers need to compensate for pirlo. That requires world class wingers quite simply, as the entire team compensates for them beeing there. It would mean tevez doesnt play, and pirlo+vidal are forced to stay deeper holding the midfield


4-3-1-2 allows vidal and pogba to press aggressively and make forward runs, pressuring the holding midfielders and central defence, whilst a central attacking playmaker and tevez create.
Because marchisio's better holding skills, pogba and vidal can attack far more frequently and fanatically. Because of the tevez+cam in front, pogba could swerve to the side where is space and send high balls to llorente

Good luck comming with a better formation then a 4-3-1-2 with Mata

 

[Lion]

Tevez's combative nature and desire to drop deep....


I can see him doing well as a CM or a more advanced CAM.

 

[BottomLine]

for after the winter marceto- 4-3-3:
-------------buffon---------------
licht----barzagli--chiellini--asamoah
--------------pirlo-----------------
--------vidal-------pogba---------
menez-----------------------nani
-------------tevez--------------
4-2-3-1 (hopefully next season):
-------------buffon---------------
licht----barzagli--chiellini--asamoah/new lb
--------pogba-----vidal-----------
menez--------mata/tevez------------nani
-------------tevez/llorente-----------------

and that's the bottom line cause stone cold said so.

 

[Klin]

4-3-3, Nani and Menez in January. Sounds legit.

 

[rakib567]

but with gala, what formations are we going to play?(winter mercato has not come yet) so a quick fix would be a 4-3-1-2 with vucinic or pogba in the role behind the strikers (llorente and tevez)

 

[Bianconero81]

4-3-1-2 for the games against Gala and Roma.

Pogba, Vidal, and Marchisio is a very physical midfield, with a lot of energy and running. High tempo, pressing, retrieving the ball with quick, crisp and short passes. Vucinic as the 1 behind Tevez and Llorente. Chiellini can be deployed as a LB just for those 2 games. I believe it can work, especially if those 2 teams come out and try to attack us.

 

[Hydde]

Realism points to the fact that soon pirlo will reture, and we have several high class cm's, and no worthy offensive wingers.

with a playmaker in front of them, we could totally field pogba, marchisio and vidal behind that, giving a very aggressive yet impossible to break down midfield, coupled with out excellent fullback options as was shown against ronaldo and bale, possibly the best wingers of the moment. They had nothing.

going 4312 keeps this thing going. We showed that asamoah or ogbonna or chiellini could perfectly play the leftback, whilst lichtsteiner and now recently caceres had monstreous games on the right back.

Marchisio mending the solid shape of the formation, with vidal and pogba beeing aggressive and pressive makes a truely impossible to break down midfield

Whilst tevez and llorente have shown many good things when paired up front.



How many players are lacking here ?

1, central attacking midfielder with high intelligence, good technique and good in combinations.

One player, really.



Face it. this is far better and realistic then these "allright guyse, lets buy 2 world class wingers we cant afford, and attacking yet defensively solid fullbacks that dont exist, and pretent tevez is eighter a midfielder (hell no) or a winger (seriously, no)

Its amusing some put questionable mediocre crap like menez in their formation just to get their formation done. Doesnt work like that, you build the formation around the players, not otherwise (unless you are coach at psg or city, and even then the oilsheijk only gives you creative strikers really)

You dont understand the point of live.

Barcelona is a team with gigantic creativity. Their attack originates from the center of the field combining, wilst the wings are mainly used to stretch the play, but not really creating danger. They want fast, players there, and thats it. Pedro, Iniesta(waste to play him there tho) and sanchez are excellent for that.
Why would they need wings ? to cross it to messi.

Nope, they stretch the play, creating channels for the cm's to move in, attempting trough balls to the forward(s)

Their creatvity is abundand, and their defence basically is the pressing game.


Juventus on the other hand, has much less creativity. The creativity it has, need to be of high class. Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba, our flanks, thats not really creativity. They can make personal actions, but not really create openings.
Tevez and Pirlo however, can. They draw players onto them, and attempt to crack a defence, allowing space for others or assisting/key passing in that space for a goal.

If we take away pirlo, our team is nearly deprived of its creativity. Basically there is tevez, and pogba lobbed passes. That is not enough.

IF you add wingers and remove pirlo, the wingers need to compensate for pirlo. That requires world class wingers quite simply, as the entire team compensates for them beeing there. It would mean tevez doesnt play, and pirlo+vidal are forced to stay deeper holding the midfield


4-3-1-2 allows vidal and pogba to press aggressively and make forward runs, pressuring the holding midfielders and central defence, whilst a central attacking playmaker and tevez create.
Because marchisio's better holding skills, pogba and vidal can attack far more frequently and fanatically. Because of the tevez+cam in front, pogba could swerve to the side where is space and send high balls to llorente

Good luck comming with a better formation then a 4-3-1-2 with Mata

I have to agree with this. From the time being, the 4312 is the formation that we can adapt easier... for the fact that we can field asamoah on one side and caceres/licht on the other. Then use our Pogba-Vidal-Marchisio midfield which will provide nice cover for our 3 attackers which have to be Vucinic llorente and Tevez.

The question would be wich player is more apt to play the "1" in that formation. IMO naturally it has to be Tevez, since he is more hardowrker than Vucinic, not to mention he knows how to tackle and bully defenders and midfielders. the forward line should be commanded by Llorente and Vucinic, supported by tevez.

 

[Trequartista]

Seriously, fuck Mazzarri for having "invented" the 3-5-2.